FFB Stick + Curves + Trimming = Buggy?

Hi all!

When I configure some curves for the X/Y-axes of my FFB Stick, trimming doesn't keep the stick in the position where I have released the trimmer button.

Example:

Lets say we have a curve that steers the virtual stick to 30% when the physical stick is at 50%. When I press the trimmer here, the FFB centering does not hold the physical stick at that 50% position, but at the 30% position!

If there are no curves, everything works as I would expect it to: 50% physical = 50% virtual -> physical is kept at 50%.

For me, it seems that the base value of the computed force to be applied to the stick by DCS is that of the virtual stick, i.e. it takes the curves into account. But that is wrong in my opinion.

Oh, and, yeah ... using BS2 1.2.3 and a G940 here.

Can anyone confirm this (as a bug)?

Greetings

-- Flagrum

I did not try the newest build of BS2 yet, but for me everything worked well in the previous one. Here are my settings:

My axis settings, same for X and Y

Ingame settings:

Curvature - 15 for X and Y

Force is set to 65 - set it as you like

Hi all!

 

When I configure some curves for the X/Y-axes of my FFB Stick, trimming doesn't keep the stick in the position where I have released the trimmer button.

This is not a bug - its a logical consequence.

The Motors work linear and you can't mix it with a non-linear axis response.

So:

You can't use curves for force-trim system, like it is used in helicopters where absolute values are needed to hold the position.

This is not a bug - its a logical consequence.

The Motors work linear and you can't mix it with a non-linear axis response.

So:

You can't use curves for force-trim system, like it is used in helicopters where absolute values are needed to hold the position.

What do you mean with non-linear axis response? The software knows the exact physical position of the stick, applies the curvature to this raw data and the result is given as input to the simulation.

The software then applies FFB to the physical stick which is based on the stick position data after calculating the curvature into. As FFB is just meant for the physical stick, it would be better/more precise/more logical if the software would instead only use the raw data before applying the curvarture.

Or where lies my misunderstanding here?

What do you mean with non-linear axis response? The software knows the exact physical position of the stick, applies the curvature to this raw data and the result is given as input to the simulation.

 

The software then applies FFB to the physical stick which is based on the stick position data after calculating the curvature into. As FFB is just meant for the physical stick, it would be better/more precise/more logical if the software would instead only use the raw data before applying the curvarture.

 

Or where lies my misunderstanding here?

Axis response can be non-linear. (set by Software in DCS - setting a curve = non-linear response)

Motor response can only be linear.(determined by Design of the motor/electronics and firmware of the FFBstick)

So, when Motor absolute range and the axis relative position isn't matching you get a offset.

(Not a problem with fixed-wing trimming as it only the relative position is needed , but a big problem on helicopters, because you need a absolute position. And this is only given when motors and axis are working linear.)

To get what you want to do working you have to redesign the electronics inside your stick and use another firmware that let you change the linearity of the motor range.

And you wouldn't be allowed to change it afterwards on a second software (DCS) .

Here is a simple question that (I hope) helps you to understand where the problem is buried:

(Let's assume you can change the linearity of your motors via the Logitech software)

When you change the axis linearity in DCS - How should the firmware of your stick be aware of it?

Further : Should ED be responsible to write a software that

'hacks' into the firmware of your stick and changes the motor-response?

Necroing this thread because Polychop. Their addition of the FFB Curves in the special menu for the Gazelle shows that it is possible to add curves to the FFB instructions.

and I think it'd be pretty cool if Eagle Dynamics and other DCS developers adopted this nifty little feature. Maybe P-Chop can be talked into sharing their method for this one particular problem solver. or better yet, maybe it could somehow be linked to the current axis tuning feature in the control menu for all of DCS World idk..maybe I'm dreaming big there.

I know you can't find them NEW anymore.. but old FFB sticks in working condition aren't that hard to find on ebay. And the Ka-50 module is one of the best reasons to have one. :)

Having the axis curvature applied to the FFB commands would be absolutely great. Didn't even know the Gazelle has it, since I didn't get that module yet. But even flying fixed wings with curvature and FFB trim is pain in the plot. Just take a MiG-21, press that right button on the stick to level her out and then the left one to disengage. It will either pitch up or down due to the mismatch. It just works with a linear axis which is, in most cases, hard to handle without a stick extension.

There are lots of those for the WH that can easily be installed, but without skills it's not possible to rework the trusty old FFB2 or a G940. I'd love to have a stick similar to the one PeterP built out of 2 FFB2s and a Cougar... it's the most awesome control thing I've ever seen. A WH with FFB (and a higher axis precision than a FFB2)... that'd be just it

But the FFB axis curvature would be the easiest step to get a finer and pore precise control without messing up the FFB trim, for all