VR/Simpit geometry and ergonomy

Hey guys,

I am designing a more permanent solution for my sim gear and moving away from a desk type solution. I fly in VR 100% of the time and having controls fixed in 100% the same place every time you fly seems like a good idea.

I have a sketch of how I intend to build the rig and already have a test rig out of leftover bits of wood at home, but while a great improvement I decided to try to make detailed plans that conforms to a real cockpit regarding geometry. I have the MIL-STD-1333B document and have seen various drawings online, but now I'd like to hear from other sim aviators.

My drawing is based on a F/A-18 Hornet drawing I found on these forums, see attachment. On this layout the rudder pedals are almost at the height of your buttocks and that would be ideal to limit the height of my rig and make it easier to stow away, or possible to permanently use in a certain low ceiling closet/very small room out of sight of the wife :lol:

The geometry also resembles the Bf-109 which is my choice mount for WW2 action. Regarding the seat it is reclined, I measured atleast 7,2 degrees of recline on the drawing and the MIL-STD-1333B guidelines for thigh tangent angle is between 5-20 degrees for fixed wing and 10-20 degrees for helicopter pilots. I was deciding to go for about 8 degrees of recline (ie angle of rig/floor and seat)

But this is of course rather different from a traditional desk setup where you sit in a normal office chair and have your legs well below seat level - so I'd like to hear experiences from simmers who have this type of layout or has experienced both the more traditional desk chair as well as the legs in front of you layout. How is looking around, is it hard to lean forward (necessary for VR users still)?

Thanks for your input!

I fly in VR exclusively, and my pit is a former PC desk that I modded into some sort of a stand/pit... Any ways, I'm sitting more like if it would be a desk set up. The main benefit of a higher position is that you see all your controllers/button-boxes/mfcd's through a nose gap and you don;t have to lean your head back. Also, the pedals might be easier to push this way, but that depends on the peds model.

Ok; I dont have any MFD's and have been using a wireless keyboard in my lap as a stop-gap measure and using it without looking has proved to be doable. I plan on wiring up a simple switch box later to hopefully get rid of the keyboard.

Attached a picture of how I envision my setup, minus the arm rests for throttle on the left side and mousepad on the left. I am also in the process of making/designing a new replacement gimbal for my existing X45 hotas, and it will have limited freedom of movement more like a real stick vs. extended normal joystick.

Any hornet simpit builders that can vouch for the attached picture in the original post if it is accurate or not?

It's in the ballpark but not exact.

The measurements in mm contain several errors.

The image below corrects most of these.

The image below is based on your doc.

Stang out

 

Any hornet simpit builders that can vouch for the attached picture in the original post if it is accurate or not?

It's in the ballpark but not exact.

 

The measurements in mm contain several errors.

 

The image below corrects most of these.

 

 

The image below is based on your doc.

 

 

Stang out

Do you happen to have a DWG or DXF file of this geometry?

I do

What specific information are you looking for?

S

I do

 

What specific information are you looking for?

 

S

The geometry :D:music_whistling:

Something like this would be nice to overlay during the design of my cockpit.

It's in the ballpark but not exact.

 

The measurements in mm contain several errors.

 

The image below corrects most of these.

 

(Images)

 

 

Stang out

That looks very useful for angles, but I don't see any scale reference?

Thanks a bunch Stang! It would seem my basic sketch conforms nicely enough to your measurements/proportions. Since you have these blueprints any comment on how comfortable this setup is? Since simmers don't have to contend with G-forces or ejection lines we can design purely for comfort, but I figure a Hornet pit must be pretty comfortable and remember reading a Hornet pilot likening it with a Lexus, perfect for long trips. And the F-16 was the roadster in this analogy IIRC :)

That quote must have come from a short, skinny guy with lots of padding on his backside. :)

All fighter cockpits, especially single seat fighter cockpits are tight. As far as them feeling like a Lexus, I can assure you they don't. Many fighter squadrons that deploy overseas with very long periods in the cockpit, need to be helped out or even lifted out, after landing from a long cross-country /international flight. After sitting on your glorious maximus for an extended period, you tend to cut blood circulation to your legs. This is bad and not comfortable in any way.

Also note, most cockpits have rudder pedals that adjust fore and aft with the Ejection Seat fixed to a for/aft position, but they typically move up and down several inches for height adjustment. Anyway, being able to stretch your legs and get your full weight off your backside is tough to do, not impossible, but tough especially when wearing "poopy-suit" (look it up) and full combat gear.

The F-16 is considered one of the most comfortable for long trips because the seat is reclined an extra 15 degrees further than a F-15, F-18 or an A-10. This allows some of that weight to be better distributed to your back rather than your bottom but, it also comes with its own set of issues.

Granted I am not a Fighter Pilot, so this information comes from friends that are. Ask around to real Fighter Pilots and see how many think the cockpit feels like a Lexus, especially for long trips. I'm doubting you'll not find too many.

I think for a VR or a Home Cockpit your design will do just fine. Many guys add an inch or two to width to provide more room. As long as you're comfortable in it...then that's all that really matters. Then again, (IF) you have a SuperSized buddy that wants to fly it, you may need to stretch it a bit. :lol:

The image below was made on request for more room in a home cockpit. :thumbup:

Let me know if I can help.

Stang out

Thanks a bunch Stang! It would seem my basic sketch conforms nicely enough to your measurements/proportions. Since you have these blueprints any comment on how comfortable this setup is? Since simmers don't have to contend with G-forces or ejection lines we can design purely for comfort, but I figure a Hornet pit must be pretty comfortable and remember reading a Hornet pilot likening it with a Lexus, perfect for long trips. And the F-16 was the roadster in this analogy IIRC :)

I fly 100% VR using oculus cv1 I built an A-10 warthog simpit and an aces II ejection seat

I find the seat comfy for about 4 hours then I’m done. I thInk I may not have my seat at the right angle as there is a lack of support under the back of my knees when my feet are on the pedals. I’ve been in many sepcat Jaguars and your shoehorned in the cockpit not much room for moving around on long flights.

It’s good to use drawings like this to calculate the ergonomics of your sim

Thanks for the input AdrianK and Stang, and lol @ the drawing stang. Since my setup is pretty barebones I can move stuff around if I need to. The office chair I plan to use for the seat is comfy as hell (and heavy) so I hope that it will be comfortable. I also fly with the CV1 and that alone puts some kind of maximum on duration. Never mind that concentration drops quite bad after some time. Gonna start assembling my setup this weekend, will be nice to try it for real.

I built my simpit under similar ideas. What I ended up using a Corbeau GTS II car seat with an adjustable back and under rack. I believe I got it on sale for a very good price ($200). I have found it very comfortable and the natural incline the seat base with the fore-aft rail mount ends up give a good angle for comfort. I then fix mounted the rudder pedals to the base and used the seat adjustment to get the right position. Center mounted the stick with a length extension and mounted the throttles on the left side "console" with the mouse on the right "console". I used to use MFDs but pulled them off since going 100% VR. My main recommendation would be to build in some adjustment to your design until you are 100% comfortable with the layout. You may find yourself building it twice but starting with a good comfortable seat is a good place to start