Mirage 2000C Tactics

I reckon you're just taking the instruction too literally. You can certainly crank away for as far as the radar's gimbals permit. So long as the target remains locked it remains illuminated. The video's targets are not the kind that require any sort of cranking maneuver, so the pilot simply does without.

I have no sources, but to suppose that you couldn't crank in a Mirage 2000 using the 530 is on the unbelievable side of incredible. ;)

I reckon you're just taking the instruction too literally. You can certainly crank away for as far as the radar's gimbals permit. So long as the target remains locked it remains illuminated. The video's targets are not the kind that require any sort of cranking maneuver, so the pilot simply does without.

I have no sources, but to suppose that you couldn't crank in a Mirage 2000 using the 530 is on the unbelievable side of incredible. ;)

Yeah I was quite surprised too, you're right ! I got misleaded by the "do not move" kinda sentence hahaha. Now it makes sense.

How about tactics considering the onboard available loadouts ? I couldn't find anything about it. It's obvious that some adjustements are required since you can't really spam your loadout and then RTB like "mission success". I couldn't find anything about the radar signature of the M2000C, I guess it will have a bad one because of the engines entry (which reflect a lot of radar energy)... I heard that the M2000C wasn't bad operating at high altitudes but it has also a terrain radar (right ?) so flying low and sneaky in order to pincer seems to be a good option aswell isn't it ?

I heard that the M2000C wasn't bad operating at high altitudes but it has also a terrain radar (right ?) so flying low and sneaky in order to pincer seems to be a good option aswell isn't it ?

D and N variants have it, not C.

The D, because ground attack specialized variant, and the N, for "sneaky" delivery, if you see what I mean ;)

D and N variants have it, not C.

The D, because ground attack specialized variant, and the N, for "sneaky" delivery, if you see what I mean ;)

Thanks for the enlightment l'ami !

I couldn't find anything about the radar signature of the M2000C, I guess it will have a bad one because of the engines entry (which reflect a lot of radar energy)...

Actually it is the engine fan which reflects a lot of radar energy.

And in the M2000, the fan is "hidden" inside the center fuselage, with the air inlets shifted to the sides.

From what I could read on the question, for RCS the M2000 is not as good as the Rafale (which benefits from stealth-optimised shapes and paint and other stuff...)

But compared to other 4th gen. fighters it is quite good, probably even better than average thanks to its small size and very clean airframe.

I reckon you're just taking the instruction too literally. You can certainly crank away for as far as the radar's gimbals permit. So long as the target remains locked it remains illuminated. The video's targets are not the kind that require any sort of cranking maneuver, so the pilot simply does without.

I have no sources, but to suppose that you couldn't crank in a Mirage 2000 using the 530 is on the unbelievable side of incredible. ;)

Unlike the M2M it's not a fire and forget missle but you can still do what mister said, within the gimbal limits. :smilewink:

The M2000 frontal radar cross section is 3,3m2 according to this site that came up when I did a quick google search. 3,3m2 is similar to an F16, and much better than larger fighters like F-15 and Su-27. It's not as good as more modern fighters like Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen though.

http://defesasaereas.blogspot.se/2010/04/dassault-mirage-2000-5-mk-2-best-of.html

Edit: For those of you who don't know the typical RCS of an object, here's a list of approximate RCS so that you can get an idea of where 3,3m2 is on the scale: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm

Some interesting comparisons are:

F-15 25m2

Su-27 15m2

MiG-21 3m2

F-16 5m2

F-16C 1,2m2

F-18 1m2

Rafale 1m2

Gripen 0,1m2

F-22 0,0001m2

im probably gonna fly it a bit like a Mig-21.

Staying low stealthy and trying to think ahead of the enemy.

Where he will be before he even knows im there.

Any mig-21 pilot able to get kills or even missile locks in MP against F-15s and Su-27s will have a field day flying the Mirage 2000.

So im gonna stay low using terrain to limit the line of sight range to where the shorter range of the mirage 2000s missiles are not as much of a problem.

And where the high speed of the Super 530D (Top speed is between mach 4.5-5.0 depending on alt/situation) can be an advantage.

Of course these top speed are for high altitude launch.

Fox 1 fight is about team play. You have to be aggressive and smarter than the enemy.

You have to maneuver to degrade enemy situational awareness and try to establish (at least locally) a 2 Vs 1 situation (even then this is not peace of cake against Fox 3 shooters).

While waiting you can train with F-15, fill it with 1h20' of fuel, 2 x AIM-7M and 2 x AIM-9M.

I think it's a good way to train while waiting...

About RCS...these are all wild guess, and not necessarily representative of combat load which increase RCS.

Gripen = 0.1 = lol

Of course these top speed are for high altitude launch.

 

Fox 1 fight is about team game. You have to be aggressive and smarter than the enemy.

 

You have to maneuver to degrade enemy situational awareness and try to establish (at least locally) a 2 Vs 1 situation (even then this is not peace of cake against Fox 3 shooters).

 

While waiting you can train with F-15, fill it with 1h20' of fuel, 2 x AIM-7M and 2 x AIM-9M.

 

I think it's a good way to train while waiting...

 

About RCS...these are all wild guess, and not necessarily representative of combat load which increase RCS.

 

Gripen = 0.1 = lol

Scenaries with mi21+su25 vs m2000+a10 would be great only partiall BVR involved and very tactical.

Scenaries with mi21+su25 vs m2000+a10 would be great only partiall BVR involved and very tactical.

MiG-29 rather than MiG-21 (or twice the number of MiG-21), the RU side won't stand a chance otherwise ;)

About RCS...these are all wild guess, and not necessarily representative of combat load which increase RCS.

 

Gripen = 0.1 = lol

I did write "APPROXIMATE" so yes, take the numbers with a grain of salt.

I used another source for the Gripen though, and I believe it is very reliable data. This document is from the Swedish Defence Research Agency, and I'm not revealing any new secrets here, because this document is already widespread on the internet, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it.

im probably gonna fly it a bit like a Mig-21.

 

Staying low stealthy and trying to think ahead of the enemy.

 

Where he will be before he even knows im there.

 

Any mig-21 pilot able to get kills or even missile locks in MP against F-15s and Su-27s will have a field day flying the Mirage 2000.

 

 

So im gonna stay low using terrain to limit the line of sight range to where the shorter range of the mirage 2000s missiles are not as much of a problem.

 

And where the high speed of the Super 530D (Top speed is between mach 4.5-5.0 depending on alt/situation) can be an advantage.

Do that and the long altitude fighters see you anyways and guides everyone else on your locations without you knowing it.

That gameplay works only when everyone else is playing it, and as long you can outsmart enemy being the hunter instead the prey.

Hello guys,

Thank you for all your answers. I checked out some french boards looking for some more informations about the radar signature of the 2000 C. Well, some people say that because of his small size, its RCS is lower than the F15C/SU27/SU30/SU35. Source isn't guenine thought.

Frontal RCS: F16, M2000: 1~2 m2 | F15 , SU27 : 10~15 m2

Something else came up to my mind this morning as I was checking AIM-7 performances. Even thought it will have a shorter range & speed than the S530D, you can actually fire the AIM-7 into FLOOD mode in which case you don't need to get a solid radar tracking with your onboard radar, which is a really cool feature. Would we have a similar thing on the 530D ? I don't think so, but I rather be sure.

I checked out some french boards looking for some more informations about the radar signature of the 2000 C. Well, some people say that because of his small size, its RCS is lower than the F15C/SU27/SU30/SU35. Source isn't guenine thought.

It most definitely is. As I said, it's roughly comparable to F-16 and MiG-21.

Hello guys,

 

Thank you for all your answers. I checked out some french boards looking for some more informations about the radar signature of the 2000 C. Well, some people say that because of his small size, its RCS is lower than the F15C/SU27/SU30/SU35. Source isn't guenine thought.

 

Frontal RCS: F16, M2000: 1~2 m2 | F15 , SU27 : 10~15 m2

 

Something else came up to my mind this morning as I was checking AIM-7 performances. Even thought it will have a shorter range & speed than the S530D, you can actually fire the AIM-7 into FLOOD mode in which case you don't need to get a solid radar tracking with your onboard radar, which is a really cool feature. Would we have a similar thing on the 530D ? I don't think so, but I rather be sure.

For RCS this might be true for clean aircraft. With combat load I think both F-16 & M2000 should rise around the 5m2 figure, which is often referred to to give radar range in "public" publication.

I think that AIM-7M should have longer range than Super 530D due to longer burn time (16s Vs 10s), but Super 530D should be faster...

Anyway FLOOD mode is visual mode, you need to see the target to put it inside illumination circle. So it doesn't extend the range.

I think that AIM-7M should have longer range than Super 530D due to longer burn time (16s Vs 10s), but Super 530D should be faster...

Rocket physics say that long / low acceleration burst and short / high acceleration burst might result in equivalent range ;)

:megalol:

Rocket physics say that long / low acceleration burst and short / high acceleration burst might result in equivalent range ;)

From theoretical point of view maybe. It might be true if both missiles had the same total impulse...which I don't know but I doubt.

Moreover AIM-7M and Super 530D don't have the same body. The later has larger diameter and probably more drag, and missiles (for long range shot) usually spend most of their flight time engine out of propellant...

So there are many variables here.

Finally we are speaking of some nautical miles here, not 2 times factor !

Agreed, I was being picky on purpose ;)

Are there any threads on how DCSW would calculate radar energy and the the returning energy? Does it take into account aspect change in the target? Ground clutter?

Not sure for the thread.

But even LO 1.00 (back in 2003) already did take both into account ;)

Any mig-21 pilot able to get kills or even missile locks in MP against F-15s and Su-27s will have a field day flying the Mirage 2000.

This guy made the MiG-21 his bitch

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKK-blpx8eGAmfEZP_HQl2A

He's the one I fear the most if I see his name in the server, I'd probably stay in the base doing startups and shutdowns... Never taking off..