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Improved stability and dedicated server - Discussion


NineLine

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How much ram do you have?

 

NineLine, I have the same issue. Only can play on SP and some "lights" servers. With 16 Gbs RAM DDR 3 has imposible connect to a normal server or populate servers. I think purchase an new computer with 32-64 Gb RAM on a far future to fix the issue. That problem coming with the 2.5.

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Reading through the counter arguments about "not as much Multiplayer" I think the current stats support the argument that MP isn't good enough.

 

 

If you look at registered users on servers such as Blue Flag, you see people come, and then they

 

 

 

GO.

 

 

It doesn't sustain people on a daily basis.

 

 

Saying there is few multiplayer, when there's so many squadrons out there shows that there is a PROBLEM. The numbers are there, they just don't want to play every day, keep trying to, and your guess is as good as mine why they don't stay.

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We are flying twice a week with our squad in MP and do not have issues that bad.

Once in a month we got a desync but other than that no problems.

 

Sorry community, but i think its pretty stable :)


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  • ED Team
Reading through the counter arguments about "not as much Multiplayer" I think the current stats support the argument that MP isn't good enough.

 

And I think Wags statement at the top of this thread shows ED is committed to growing it as well.

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@Wags/ED

 

Talk to Drex and the buddyspike guys they know what is best and will provide a holistic approach and list of M.player issues. and needed features.

 

Server performance is not the only issue, its the critical, but it is also a technically hard one. There are however Fundamental issues with the game it self as it is also a "Combat simulator", along with Multiplayer Mission functions that are also critical "And far less technically challenging"

 

I know this for a fact, that many PPL in my squadron got bought modules simply for the fact that they had "Mplayer mission maker functions" I personally got the MI8,UH1,F5 and others for the fact that the mission makers assigned special tasks for them in Mplayer servers.

 

This is typical for Milsim markets, which is a market that is under served at the moment, If DCS manages to add an interesting method for ground combat "DDCS Gets very close but is limited by DCS it self in some ways" along with ground combat being riddled with bugs, and low fidelity issues.

 

To sum it up:

-Server/game performance.

-Mplayer mission maker features and frame work.

-Ground combat bug fix and overhaul.

-Missile FM/DM update, and quality standardization among all developers.

-Asymmetrical balance systems and frame work "cost,economy and ownership of in session items" to balance out RED/Blue gap.

-Above all some REDFOR aircraft to balance the Blue aircraft "in general give it a thought when selecting what aircraft should be made next and how it fits in Mplayer.

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Completely?

 

I have seen it first hand, If I try and connect to a server with a 40 ping, I have a much better time than I do with a 400 ping. I dont time out on 40 ping server.

 

As stated, ED knows they have some work to do, but we as users need to make sure we meet the specs of the game as well, or that the servers are up to the task, or that we arent building insane missions full of crazy scripts and other things that suck up resources. It all adds up.

 

Partially, I live in Brazil as you know, south america. Kind of far away from U.S for example, where most of the servers are hosted. I have a ping in the order of 180ms to 205ms. It's not a big deal at all, never had a single issue with this kind of ping in other games, even higher too. Completely playable (FPS, RPG, racing games etc). But you can definitely see a difference in DCS, how LONGER it takes to load the exact same mission with 40ms and 190ms. Completely different. DCS behaves very weirdly with different pings, and I'm not talking about 40 vs 450ms. The difference isn't that big... I do time out less with 30-50ms though, but it still happens quite often. But a lot less than 190ms (104th Server for example), where it's impossible to connect.

 

And this has nothing to do with my connection, my connection is excellent. I'm just kind of far away from the host.

 

It's more of a DCS thing than my internet connection and pc.

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I will point it again, as my post was deleted, this time shorter, as I feel a bit bad about that again I spent my time for DCS, while it was, ekhm, lost due to crash.

 

 

people don't play multiplayer, coz it's unplayable.

 

And a bit more:

 

We finally got our server to be stable enough to live for 6h of mission time (Which is sort of creepy in it's own way, have you ever seen any other game that needs to restart itself after 6 hours coz it can't work longer?!).

 

And what is strangest, we need to restart whole hardware to make it work. Simple DCS process restart does not fix anything, the server will crash in max 1h after that (with a clock in my hand).

 

It's repeatable:

Run server for 6h, restart the software, it will crash in max 1h.

Run server for 6h, restart hardware, it will run for next 6h.

 

It's clearly something with leftovers from the previous run in memory/tempfiles/caches whatever is there that affects next game after prev. was done.

 

It's not an issue of ping/hardware/scripting. Its issue of DCS itself, and we've checked that too many times.

 

In our community there are people how literally take "vacations" from DCS until it will be fixed, they stop playing for weeks coz they are fed up with it.

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Still around, still mostly fly MP...primarily formation.

 

Still tend to see a lot of netcode twitching on everyone but the host. As in if host is flying lead, and I'm flying outer left wing, the jet in between the leader and myself is stuttering up and down. Not nearly as bad as it was a year or two ago, but still there.

 

 

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NineLine, I have the same issue. Only can play on SP and some "lights" servers. With 16 Gbs RAM DDR 3 has imposible connect to a normal server or populate servers. I think purchase an new computer with 32-64 Gb RAM on a far future to fix the issue. That problem coming with the 2.5.

 

I fly everyday with 16gb DDR3 system RAM and can connect to the busiest of servers zero problems (a well configured pagefile helps https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3548636#post3548636)

 

I also make use of a custom MP autoexec.cfg file for larger network upstream/downstream loads

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=214799


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  • ED Team

It's repeatable:

Run server for 6h, restart the software, it will crash in max 1h.

Run server for 6h, restart hardware, it will run for next 6h.

 

SO every server host out there experiences this? If so, please point me to the thread with all the logs from these crashes, I will make sure its reported.

 

 

people don't play multiplayer, coz it's unplayable.

 

Then all those twitch streams I watch daily with people playing multiplayer are not real? I am confused on what unplayable means in this case.

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SO every server host out there experiences this? If so, please point me to the thread with all the logs from these crashes, I will make sure its reported.

 

 

 

Then all those twitch streams I watch daily with people playing multiplayer are not real? I am confused on what unplayable means in this case.

 

Sure, i can provide you that, but I'll need to disable the software that does it, i'll pm you that.

 

But, since we added this logic, it's been running ok.

We're waiting for the weekend to test it at full load - with 40ppl on it.

 

But to be honest, logs will not tell you much. DCS just stops, i've checked the logs. Nothing strange.

 

First of all server goes black, it works for a bit of time (2-3 mins) as I can see stats comming from it (peopl do land, kill, takeoff) and then it just "is not responding".

 

 

Anyway, we will run it, i'll send it to you.

 

+

 

I've played a lot on servers, there was no single one who would not crash at some point. Sure, the ones that had like 4 players were stable. But when there's 30+ players, it get's hard.

 

And what can you do with less ppl, you need sead, cap, cas on both sides. Some ppl say it's all ok for them, and it might be true.

 

In our comunity we have ppl who can't join server for like couple of weeks, some of them have no problems.

For me is mixed, every other patch it's all ok, for others, it's not.

 

I do dev. for a living, and I know that this might be hard to track as it might be just stupid race condition that happens here, not there, but still it is there.

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He was taking a very unscientific sampling of current users in MP, so in return I took a very unscientific sample of people upset with MP.

 

That seems like the wrong way to go about proving a point :(

 

I've made it a personal goal of mine to make hoggit the most welcoming place for people interested in combat flight simming. We run a server welcoming new people every Tuesday, where anyone can come in and ask questions and not be fearful of being called out for doing something incorrectly or not knowing something.

 

Pretty much every week I have been involved in this Tuesday practice, there has been someone asking about multiplayer issues, or complaining about crashes to desktop / "dcs has stopped responding". The saddest part of all this to me is that the response from people is "Welcome to DCS". We've grown accustomed to the crashes, and the instability. But seeing a new person who's just learned to take off, or drop a GBU on target, get so excited about doing a thing in a study sim like DCS, get so disheartened because they take multiple attempts to join a server after their game crashes or the game fails to load entirely just breaks my heart.

 

I do what I can to dig in to the logs and pick out specific problems for them to work on, but in doing so I also think about all the people trying to face this kind of problem alone.

 

I want the "Welcome to DCS" part to not be responses to crashes or instability problems, but instead I want to tell people "Welcome to DCS" when they finish their first multiplayer mission, or first carrier landing.

Acidic

Hoggit Admin / Server Owner / Mission Maker

Discord: https://discord.gg/hoggit

GAW Website: https://atwar.online

 

Wiki: https://hoggitworld.com

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Then all those twitch streams I watch daily with people playing multiplayer are not real? I am confused on what unplayable means in this case.

 

What it comes down to is that pretending there isn't an issue isn't going to be productive. Unplayable doesn't mean that the game runs and is capable of playing multiplayer, but what it comes down to is the things you have to put up with to both actually play online (deal with crashes, desyncs, server restarts and crashes) and what we as server operators have to do to provide multiplayer at any kind of scale (pay thousands monthly for servers, created reduced experiences to keep the engine from pooping upon itself, put up with restarts multiple times a day, reboots of the entire system and the workarounds we have to do when the game does crash and refuses to serve again until you load up an offline mission) leads to the game being unplayable because it's simply not worth the effort to continue playing, or serving.

 

Stability scales with complexity of mission, and simply put you don't have to push very hard to break the engine. And we're not running things out of a virtualbox instance in a basement either.

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Happy to have a big and clear "We hear you and and at hard work" on this issue. :thumbup:

While whispers saying things are in the work was clearly heard, it wasn't a hard statement either.

This post is reassuring.

Thanks Wags.

Wow, such landing, much no gear, so slide...

 

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SO every server host out there experiences this? If so, please point me to the thread with all the logs from these crashes, I will make sure its reported.

 

 

 

Then all those twitch streams I watch daily with people playing multiplayer are not real? I am confused on what unplayable means in this case.

 

I encourage you to help us be part of the solution, to make DCS a multi-player friendly simulation, where we can attract a larger audience and community of people who yearn for a massive multiplayer realistic combat flight simulator. In fact, come join us on the more popular multiplayer servers and see the issues we're talking about first hand! Hopefully you'll have fun and maybe see a few of the bugs the people in this thread are pointing out first hand, and possibly find a better way of reporting them - If any one could, I'm sure it'll be you!

 

You watch any twitch streamer long enough and you'll see the issues we're mentioning. You'll see the frustration that so many people have - things that I wouldn't exactly want broadcast across the interwebs about MY game.

 

EXAMPLE: https://clips.twitch.tv/AuspiciousScaryFiddleheadsDoubleRainbow

 

 

 

To all those replying in this thread, I encourage you to be civil, and to post tracks, twtich clips, videos, etc highlighting some of the more frustrating aspects of multi-player, so we can help ED address the issues and make it more attractive for new people to come into. I'm sure most of you, like myself, LOVE the product ED has created and find the ability to fly some legendary combat aircraft with and against our friends to be the most enjoyable part - so lets make our voices heard, but do so in a civil and helpful manner - leave your emotions at the door!

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Thanks Wags for the statement, hopefully things will improve in the not to distant future.

 

I really feel if the MP environment becomes healthier, DCS will only continue to grow, and that would be a very good thing for all of us here.

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  • ED Team

Thanks and we greatly appreciate your efforts!

 

As noted in my earlier post, this is a very complex issue that requires multiple changes by both us and the servers. We believe that network play is a vital part of DCS World and we're doing all we can to improve it from our end.

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

That seems like the wrong way to go about proving a point :(

 

I've made it a personal goal of mine to make hoggit the most welcoming place for people interested in combat flight simming. We run a server welcoming new people every Tuesday, where anyone can come in and ask questions and not be fearful of being called out for doing something incorrectly or not knowing something.

 

Pretty much every week I have been involved in this Tuesday practice, there has been someone asking about multiplayer issues, or complaining about crashes to desktop / "dcs has stopped responding". The saddest part of all this to me is that the response from people is "Welcome to DCS". We've grown accustomed to the crashes, and the instability. But seeing a new person who's just learned to take off, or drop a GBU on target, get so excited about doing a thing in a study sim like DCS, get so disheartened because they take multiple attempts to join a server after their game crashes or the game fails to load entirely just breaks my heart.

 

I do what I can to dig in to the logs and pick out specific problems for them to work on, but in doing so I also think about all the people trying to face this kind of problem alone.

 

I want the "Welcome to DCS" part to not be responses to crashes or instability problems, but instead I want to tell people "Welcome to DCS" when they finish their first multiplayer mission, or first carrier landing.

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"both us and the servers"

 

I'm game for this. These changes that need to be made I'm super on board with it, but we definitely take incredible care with our code and do a lot to ensure that our scripting is lean and does at little as possible to facilitate dynamic feeling missions, and as soon as we leave the realm of trivial, we encounter issues. Is there specifics around this?

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Moving forward, we are investigating “official servers” that will offer many benefits. One of the chief items will be that the server and missions must provide a quality online experience. We’ll be talking more about this later in the year.

 

That language makes me nervous. I dream of the day we have a proper dedicated server binary for linux that we can run on our own metal.

 

The quote makes me wonder if we're instead headed for curated hosting companies with canned mission packs. "The bronze package includes the basic mission pack and supports up to 5 players! For the serious pilots we offer the high performance tier that supports up to 10 players and comes with the bonus mission pack!"

 

I hope that's not the case.

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Thanks and we greatly appreciate your efforts!

 

As noted in my earlier post, this is a very complex issue that requires multiple changes by both us and the servers. We believe that network play is a vital part of DCS World and we're doing all we can to improve it from our end.

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

I've tried to code multiplayer games before and completely understand that it's amazingly complex. More so than a lot of people understand.

 

You mentioned official servers, is clarification about that coming soon? Having ED run dedicated servers with an open sourced blueflag-like (or other large-style mission/campaign) would provide immense value to both sides.

 

You would see the pain that we see and have the correct context to be able to work with it and improve things. And the community would get insight into the best way to use the lua engine to code missions/libraries.

 

So if those are the official servers you're talking about I would be totally on board with that idea, and even helping out with working on the content for them.

Acidic

Hoggit Admin / Server Owner / Mission Maker

Discord: https://discord.gg/hoggit

GAW Website: https://atwar.online

 

Wiki: https://hoggitworld.com

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That language makes me nervous. I dream of the day we have a proper dedicated server binary for linux that we can run on our own metal.

 

The quote makes me wonder if we're instead headed for curated hosting companies with canned mission packs. "The bronze package includes the basic mission pack and supports up to 5 players! For the serious pilots we offer the high performance tier that supports up to 10 players and comes with the bonus mission pack!"

 

I hope that's not the case.

 

 

No, I dont think it will go that far, but an official server should showcase the game and give the best experience possible right? And Users will be able to have official servers as well.

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