Really struggling with transition to landing config - ED Forums
 


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Old 12-06-2019, 05:48 PM   #1
SPS48A
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Default Really struggling with transition to landing config

Damn, I must have made 200 attempts at landing this thing and can't seem to get it right. I can do OK with a 10 mile final with plenty of time to slow down and stabilized before the threshold, but I am really struggling with standard overhead patterns. There just doesn't seem to be enough time/distance to get this thing slowed down and stable before turning to base. What I find is when I make the brake and pull the speed brake, it starts to slow and when I hit 250 the gear goes down and I am fine. It continues to slow and when under 200 I put down flaps and bam, it balloons up and I have to apply forward stick to keep from shooting up well over 1500 feet AGL and then bam, airspeed drops like a rock and the thing falls out of the sky. There doesn't seem to be much time between the two to manage throttle. If i try to apply power to keep from dropping out of the sky, it just adds to the balloon and off I go into the wild blue yonder. I've even tried a two step flaps process - apply half flaps, delay while it slows, and then apply full flaps. By the time everything stabilizes I am either way downwind with a 2 mile final or into the base/final transition and unstable. I understand stroking the throttle and have tried that, but haven't found the right method to make that work.

Not bitching, just frustrated.

Any hints to get this under control? I have watched every YouTube video I can find.

I'm also having trouble maintaining pitch and altitude in normal flight and turns. Perhaps I have something set up in my joystick incorrectly. I do have a curve in as recommended by others but the Hornet sure appears to have a lot of pitch instability to me.

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Old 12-06-2019, 06:22 PM   #2
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I land this bird 100% of times perfectly with flaps auto (I too have issues with flaps down). Then just lift the air-brake and lower the gear the speed will decline fast, surely you need the throttle to adjust engine power\speed. Last thing point the velocity vector to the edge of the runway and trim ( T/O trim). It works.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:30 PM   #3
A2597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPS48A View Post
Damn, I must have made 200 attempts at landing this thing and can't seem to get it right. I can do OK with a 10 mile final with plenty of time to slow down and stabilized before the threshold, but I am really struggling with standard overhead patterns. There just doesn't seem to be enough time/distance to get this thing slowed down and stable before turning to base. What I find is when I make the brake and pull the speed brake, it starts to slow and when I hit 250 the gear goes down and I am fine. It continues to slow and when under 200 I put down flaps and bam, it balloons up and I have to apply forward stick to keep from shooting up well over 1500 feet AGL and then bam, airspeed drops like a rock and the thing falls out of the sky. There doesn't seem to be much time between the two to manage throttle. If i try to apply power to keep from dropping out of the sky, it just adds to the balloon and off I go into the wild blue yonder. I've even tried a two step flaps process - apply half flaps, delay while it slows, and then apply full flaps. By the time everything stabilizes I am either way downwind with a 2 mile final or into the base/final transition and unstable. I understand stroking the throttle and have tried that, but haven't found the right method to make that work.

Not bitching, just frustrated.

Any hints to get this under control? I have watched every YouTube video I can find.

I'm also having trouble maintaining pitch and altitude in normal flight and turns. Perhaps I have something set up in my joystick incorrectly. I do have a curve in as recommended by others but the Hornet sure appears to have a lot of pitch instability to me.

Comments?

What's your control setup like? That can play a large role in it I found.
I found I too apply some forward stick to keep it level, and yes I'm always on the throttle during the approach.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:39 PM   #4
SPS48A
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I am using the Thrustmaster T16000M. I like it a lot. It seems to be pretty smooth with no slop. I have the pitch tuning set up as:

Deadzone: 2
Sat X and Y: 100
Curvature: 21
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:49 PM   #5
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I have learned that when you drop the airspeed below 200 Knots, airbrake out - wheels and flaps down not until 180 or less then the balooning is minimal. You will need gentle throttle at this point while you trim for AOA. Then gently does it with the throttle.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:52 PM   #6
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I also apply forward stick sometimes. Make sure that you start trimming to 8.1 degree AOA when the jet feels like it's about to start losing altitude. After you turn downwind, don't stay at idle throttle too much, to the point where you start falling. You need to find the sweet spot between losing lift due to the low airspeed and gaining because of the trimming, so you can stay at the desired altitude.
Practice without a boat, just level transitions from gear/flaps up to gear/flaps down and try to maintain altitude. Getting the thing I describe above correctly, should help you get used to the process. After that, try the same during turns.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPS48A View Post
Not bitching, just frustrated.

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Well, you should be bitching… Powered Approach mode is unfinished so you just have to do whatever it takes to transition to onspeed without gross deviations. Push the stick into MPCD, start applying power as son as velocity vector starts dropping (but before it plummets) and trim at the same time. I just push the trim up for 3 or 4 seconds paying most attention to settling VV with power and pushing the stick down to remain around 600 feet. By that time I'm already past 180 but that's OK. Most of the times I'm onspeed at that point, if not I make minor trim adjustments while turning inbound.
Now, I always have the boat moving at 22 - 30 knots depending on wind. I also set the wind to at least 5 kts so the 180 point comes up quick and even when flying single ship I try to break no further then .5 nm. (350kts from initial to brea). You can always make it easier on yourself by breaking at 1nm past the bow which is fine. You can fit a 4-ship formation 2.5, 3nm. #4 guy will have it easy
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:15 PM   #8
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Try Banklers approach mission, you can practice doing it the right way.


The main Pro-tip I can offer is to use the flight path marker, and keep it on the crotch of the ship (ish).

Worst case, just setup a straight in mission, distance (1-3nm) set alt (1000), speed(250), etc (you will need to tweak it) drop gear/flaps/hook and just focus on auguring in that way, do it that way until you can get the hang of the final. And then go back to doing actual patterns using the trainer.
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:50 PM   #9
SPS48A
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I have Banklers mission. Don't do very well with it for the same reason. I have set up a ground based approach with a break complete with gates. I just have to practice more I guess.

Question: Do you guys have your HOTAS throttle axis tune set linearly or have you applied a curve to it to give you finer granularity in the center? Right now mine is set up linearly. I may put a curve in it to help prevent over correction. Not sure what might cause in other flight configurations.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPS48A View Post
I have Banklers mission. Don't do very well with it for the same reason. I have set up a ground based approach with a break complete with gates. I just have to practice more I guess.

Question: Do you guys have your HOTAS throttle axis tune set linearly or have you applied a curve to it to give you finer granularity in the center? Right now mine is set up linearly. I may put a curve in it to help prevent over correction. Not sure what might cause in other flight configurations.
It won't help due to spool-up time for these motors in the PA range. You have to constantly seesaw the throttles to "average out" the power for a steady approach. Don't go too far though.
On my Warthog it takes an inch or so, back and forward, sometimes a little more or longer duration of power change. This part really takes time getting used to... well, depends on your experience.
I do have a slight curve on my WH throttles since I use mech. detents/finger lifts and had to fine tune the AB position. There are other ways to do it.
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