stuck on grass

All you gotta do is put some off runway tires on it.

I wonder how this thread could grow to six pages long with the OP repeatedly making the point that he was not interested in any sort of debate on the topic...

Because we're all waiting for Great Conjunction... I mean Merge, and have nothing better to do than argue.

No need to act as moron to make false claims from different situation in videos. [snip: loooooong post]

That's kinda the point, though. OP claims aircraft shouldn't sink in, because MBTs with roughly the same weight don't, either. And posts link after link after link about how much weight certain types of ground can hold, yet not a single one of them refers to airports or military airbases.

Basically you're saying: it depends. That, I believe, we can all agree on. OP just doesn't seem to be very interested in making the distinction, and that's what I was trying to point out.

This is Russia! :)

... yet not a single one of them refers to airports or military airbases.

...

I can only speak from my point of view: in Sheppard AFB, Luke AFB, Osan AB, MCAS Iwakuni, Aviano AB, Al Udeid AB, Cold Lake AFB, Holloman AFB, Kunsan AB and Eilson AFB, non had any "ground harden" around taxiways, non that I saw. In Kunsan, many areas are like rice fields.

If ground is wet soaket that can be a problem but if its dry then its hardenough to witstand anything. It looks like in DCS its allways rainy. Also, soil hardening has invert conical shape in taxiway crossection so real place to dip into a mud is not near taxiway, allways further a bit.

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Also, wheel (all wheels) needs to sink over the axle level to get completely stuck.

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It should be simple: If its rainy, make it muddy, soaky, whatever, let the wheels swim and stuck.. if its dry and clear make it harder as it should be. Taxiways on hangar exit should be wider anyway, at least as plane (Su25) wingspan, some are even made of hardened soil. Its too easy to get stuck on that narrow taxiways and its not a matter of taxing proficiency or complicated differential braking, it just ain't right. Sometimes taxing in Su27 looks like driving a cabover truck on Italian oldtown narrow roads. It shouldn't.

hover taxi for the win!

avoid that pesky mud. and too fragile landing gear.

remove the wheels entirely.

don't bother with fancy wings. get a big rotor that beats the air into submission and shows it who's boss.

and you can even head out into the bush and go native, and forget that taxi ways even exist..

[...] if its dry and clear make it harder as it should be. [...]

Okay, so what does "dry and clear" tell you about the weather conditions during the past couple of weeks? How long does it take for soil to dry up enough to support the weight of aircraft? And vice versa, how much rain does it take to make a grass field unsuitable for aircraft?

So how hard exactly should the ground be at any given time?

Again, I believe the answer is, "it depends". And again, I'm not saying it's perfect in DCS right now, but making it sound as if DCS has it totally wrong doesn't sound too convincing, either.

Seriously? Hours? Something's wrong but I'm not sure it's the grass... :joystick:

:megalol: My thoughts exactly. :thumbup:

We had F-111's sink several inches into the asphalt on really hot days, then they changed to concrete (which increased the risk of FOD). I always felt lucky when I could get out of the grassy areas in DCS.

As I said its not matter of taxing or overweight, some taxiways are too narrow especially between reinforced shelters. If weather is not rainy there should be no problem if Mig21 or Mig15 steps out of taxiway if not too heavy but when they step out they have this pulsating behavior that should not exist at all which just digs them deeper. Also if wheel axle isn't below ground level there shouldn't stuck because motion is still possible if powerful engine is in afterburner state like in Mig21. Anyone can say anything and trolls can burn in hell but having so many packed shelters and that super-narrow taxiways between is not by the book especially if logic says that someone had to harden that ground to level it around new build shelters because they had to dig a lot of material to construct shelters in a first place. To exit one in "big" Su27 you need to be positioned with your seat above grass with forward wheel still on taxiway like you're driving a truck where drivers seat is in front of forward wheels and all that time you need to watch wingtips not to hit walls. That is stupid as it endangers airplanes in RL. I checked some RL airports in GE and found out that shelters and taxiways are not ever that close packed as in DCS. Why I lost hours on that is because I've been playing this unfinished game for so many years that when you stuck once in a month that accumulates over the years. This game is here around 30 years since release of first Flanker and it should be finished and stable long time ago without people complaining about some features of this kind but its so.

PS. Admin, why you renamed my topic? Where is the respect to your customers? If I said its "Stupid" it will always be in my opinion whatever you wrote until someone corrects that or posts some scientific data that proves me wrong. How hard is that?

With all due respect, have you noticed the past seven pages of this thread?

With all respect did you understand problem and why slipping of taxiway ever occurred and where? I actually posted lot of soil scientific data, videos of Mig21 operation from dirt runway and other guy videos of Mig15 taxing on grass. All other (that disagree) posted some pictures of stuck planes either in rainy or muddy conditions when everything is slippy and muddy anyway - that is not an issue here.

As I said its not matter of taxing or overweight, some taxiways are too narrow especially between reinforced shelters.

Or maybe they were created for different aircraft and you should complain to either the Georgians/Russians who set them up prior to them being modeled in DCS, or to the designer/creator of that particular mission, or just place your aircraft at a different parking spot.

Anyone can say anything and trolls can burn in hell but having so many packed shelters and that super-narrow taxiways between is not by the book [...]

Okay, tell you what. Why don't you provide hard, solid facts? Show us historic images of said airbases from the time frame that they're modeled after in DCS. I believe that might be something like 2003, although I might be wrong. The thing is, it's your job to prove DCS wrong, not the other way around.

I checked some RL airports in GE and found out that shelters and taxiways are not ever that close packed as in DCS.

Which RL airports? Names, coords, links, images please.

I guess none of them is Kobuleti, Senaki Kholki or Kutaisi Kopitnari around 2008 or before.

Why I lost hours on that is because I've been playing this unfinished game for so many years [...]

New graphics engine (for free, BTW), new aircraft, fully clickable cockpits, head tracking support, unrivaled flight modeling, spanning WWII to present-day, props and jets, fixed wing and rotary wing, headed for new terrain engine (again, for free)... yeah, you're right that DCS has never been "finished". I just really fail to see how that's a bad thing.

PS. Admin, why you renamed my topic?

https://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en

1.3, 3.1.

Not sure if you have tested this in other sims jackmckay?

DCS does this better than any of them that I can see, most let you drive 737's into town if you want, not very realistic it's it, I like how in DCS there can be a consequence for testing the limits of the aircraft, airport or just being stupid.

Keep you eye on the prize, look at the big picture here jackmckay. These are little things to me in this great sim, can things be better? Sure, I don't let things like this get to me, as there are so many other things that are great.

Is the glass half empty or half full? Seems to be half empty from the posts you make.

.

Fair. I'll give data and pictures of referenced airfields and how shelters are positioned and explain in details when airplanes sink in soil and why if info is dispersed. I need a day.

In meantime I would like admin o change topic title to moderate version like "Difficult taxing in narrow taxiways"

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I would Like admin to PM me so I can PM back.

@Yurgon "you're right that DCS has never been "finished". I just really fail to see how that's a bad thing."

Its Core should be finished, stable and ready to accept any new module flawlessly. Consider it like DCS should be an OS, modules should be Software build in DCS development framework like Visual Studio. That modular concept is missed here in my opinion.

We had F-111's sink several inches into the asphalt on really hot days, then they changed to concrete (which increased the risk of FOD). I always felt lucky when I could get out of the grassy areas in DCS.

That happen to us on EAA Ari Venture 1998. We had to put plywood under the tires of F-15s to stop them from sinking on one of the asphalt runways where we park them. We also had to move a Howard 500 out of the grass parking because he started to sink as well. I think we end up putting ply wood under all aircraft not on concrete on the west ramp.

Ok, lets start.

Gudauta:

GE

Larger Image

Reinforced shelters. Note the number of shelters and angle of taxiway junctions.

DCS:

Heavily packed shelters and little space to maneuver on taxing especially if using differential braking like on Mig15/21.

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Vaziani

GE

This portion of airfield wasn't available in GE in 2008 (This is latest one). Note the dirt taxiways and their composition.

Older picture.

DCS:

Taxiways are way too narrow here and do not tolerate any deviation. GE one are made of hardened soil and have no concrete tiling.

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Sochi

GE:

Sochi in 2005.

Sochi in 2012.

DCS:

Note the RL non existing and heavily packed shelters.

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Conclusion:

- All taxiway-taxiway or taxiway-runway junctions have fillet corners with sufficient radius as seen on previous GE pictures.

- No concrete shelter is ever placed directly on taxiway in 90° fashion without taxiway buffer zone.

- In DCS there are at least 3x times more hardened shelters per taxiway branch than in any RU/Georgia GE available airfield.

This all makes differential braking extremely difficult. When fact that soviet fighters like Mig21 or Mig15 have relative ability to operate from dirt runways and can taxi on grassland either on dried or frozen soil without getting stuck is considered seriously that facts shouldn't allow moderately weighted plane to terminate safe operation of taxing. The only case when soil is soft enough is when its been soaked wet for a prolonged period of time due to environmental conditions or current season. In summer time there should be no problem taxing on dirt in booth fighters mentioned before as probably many others too.

Why would you taxi on the grass in the first place?

Seems like you are stuck in this thread too.