Goodbye VR... for now at least.

2004 i was loving Lomac on my Iiyama Monitor, but in 2020 ,DCS is already my favorite VR Application now. The Second One is iRacing in VR.

@ micsmotionsimulator

That won’t be acceptable for games that are primarily intended to be run in 2D. And the vast majority of potential customers for a sim like DCS are buying it for use on a monitor. Typical VR users buy games like VTOL VR, not hardcore simulations. Making DCS look like a “VR game” would kill it in the marketplace.

:doh: Whole lot of unfounded speculation going on in that post...along with a veiled insult to all VR users. Great way to make friends! :megalol:

lmao :megalol:

Try marketing a version of DCS that looks like a game from 20 years ago... :music_whistling:

Indeed though for a game to perform well in VR it would have to be specifically tailored for that. But the install base doesn’t make that worthwhile for something like a VR DCS version. I very much doubt ED can make two versions of this sim, they can barely keep up with making a single one.

Whole lot of unfounded speculation going on in that post...

Look at the top selling VR games on Steam and see if you can find DCS there

VTOL VR is #20, I don’t see DCS World anywhere at least not in the top 200 or so. And DCS World is free.

.along with a veiled insult to all VR users.

You’ll note I said “typical”. Typical gamers of all types don’t buy sims like this. It’s a niche game. VR is a niche within a niche.

Try marketing a version of DCS that looks like a game from 20 years ago... :music_whistling:

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Try marketing a version of DCS that looks like a game from 20 years ago... :music_whistling:

And 20 years from now, you'll still be telling everybody how much VR sucks because of that one time you tried it in 2019. BTW, DCS in VR on my Reverb looks nothing like Falcon 4.0 or FS2000. Not even close.

And 20 years from now, you'll still be telling everybody how much VR sucks because of that one time you tried it in 2019. BTW, DCS in VR on my Reverb looks nothing like Falcon 4.0 or FS2000. Not even close.

He didn't even try it then.

He didn't even try it then.

Really? I thought he said that he tried it once on a friend's computer or something. Definitely the definition of a thorough, objective study. :lol:

Really? I thought he said that he tried it once on a friend's computer or something. Definitely the definition of a thorough, objective study. :lol:

Only thing I have ever seen him state was trying a supposed Rift CV1 at his office for what they do there.

I am sure he could clarify.

Only thing I have ever seen him state was trying a supposed Rift CV1 at his office for what they do there.

I am sure he could clarify.

As much as we both loved our CV1s, they don't even come close to the Rift S and Reverb, so he's definitely going on outdated info.

As much as we both loved our CV1s, they don't even come close to the Rift S and Reverb, so he's definitely going on outdated info.

Yep big difference for sure.

Try marketing a version of DCS that looks like a game from 20 years ago... :music_whistling:[/Quote]

 

Why you want to market Flanker 2.5?

 

Indeed though for a game to perform well in VR it would have to be specifically tailored for that. But the install base doesn’t make that worthwhile for something like a VR DCS version. I very much doubt ED can make two versions of this sim, they can barely keep up with making a single one.[/Quote]

 

You do know DCS is already 'tailored for VR'?

 

Or what do you mean with that it should be changed for the VR, yet done?

 

Look at the top selling VR games on Steam and see if you can find DCS there

VTOL VR is #20, I don’t see DCS World anywhere at least not in the top 200 or so. And DCS World is free.[/Quote]

 

World most played game is the windows card game.... solitaire....

 

And what does a steam matter?

How many hard core simulator fans you expect to fly those others instead DCS, flight Sim etc?

 

 

note I said “typical”. Typical gamers of all types don’t buy sims like this. It’s a niche game. VR is a niche within a niche.

 

Yes, it is niche in niche, but sometimes you only need a 200 000 customers instead 15 million....

 

CV1 was not ready for DCS, but Rift S is completely different case. And in future the more definitive VR will offer more benefits.

 

But the VR will likely die before that, not because DCS, but because Andrade player is not going to stand, jump, wave hands etc after a serious school or work day... So all those top VR games go away as you can only sell so many demos like bow shooting games or how funny to believe that handling some toys is...

 

DCS is from all that you have mentioned, only VR game that has made me to believe that I am somewhere else after flying. Set the mission weather parameters right and it is amazing.

 

And that is why Oculus is pushing Quest forward instead PC version, as you can just grab one and play, instead twiddle with Windows, Steam or anything like that....

You do know DCS is already 'tailored for VR'?

Really? 45fps on top end hardware is “tailored for VR?”

And 20 years from now, you'll still be telling everybody how much VR sucks because of that one time you tried it in 2019.

Oh I will be happy to be wrong. I’ll only believe it when I see it though.

Really? 45fps on top end hardware is “tailored for VR?”

 

 

Oh I will be happy to be wrong. I’ll only believe it when I see it though.

Let’s not forget objects only rendering in one eye not the other, strange lighting bugs at night time, and some other issues. DCS could use a bit of tweaking to iron out these problems, but in the meantime I’m adoring 2d.

Really? 45fps on top end hardware is “tailored for VR?”

 

 

Oh I will be happy to be wrong. I’ll only believe it when I see it though.

Heh...I think you're missing the point about a common frame of reference though. You can't judge today's VR tech by your extremely limited hands-on time with the previous generation of VR hardware. :smilewink:

Why you want to market Flanker 2.5?

 

 

 

You do know DCS is already 'tailored for VR'?

 

DCS isn't at all "Tailored for VR" It can be played in VR. But having a few native VR settings isn't Tailored.

Tailored would be optimizing draw distance and sighting cues, Tailored would mean not having to fiddle with settings just to get your view in the correct scale, Tailored would mean the ability to run parallel Video Cards in each eye and support the RAM and CPU services needed to do that. Right now it can't even split up threads. Tailored would mean being able to read the interior of the cockpit.

And Tailored wouldn't mean having a massive list of aircraft controls involving separate Left and Right differentiations of Control Alt and Shift modifiers.

DCS is more "One Size Fits None" for VR not "Tailored."

That won’t be acceptable for games that are primarily intended to be run in 2D.

Which is exactly my point. And until companies accept that. We risk yet another round of "VR almost took off"

Which At this point would be probably my 3 or 4th go around with this since the mid 90's

Really? 45fps on top end hardware is “tailored for VR?”[/Quote]

 

So that is your problem. What you want? A 144 or 240 fps per eye?

 

How about if you would go back to CRT as clearly LCD technology ain't good enough for you?

 

Oh I will be happy to be wrong. I’ll only believe it when I see it though.

 

Yes... Be first negative, sarcastic and depressive and all without experience. It is easy way to get happy when you always can get surprised, but never be let down as you were already pessimistic.

Tailored would be optimizing draw distance and sighting cues,

[/Quote]

 

So same way as does other VR titles require that....

 

Tailored would mean not having to fiddle with settings just to get your view in the correct scale[/Quote]

 

So just like most VR titles offer you the setting to adjust scaling....

 

Tailored would mean the ability to run parallel Video Cards in each eye and support the RAM and CPU services needed to do that.[/Quote]

 

Like all of those top 200 VR titles allows that...

 

Right now it can't even split up threads. [/Quote]

 

And how many those 200 titles allows you to so that? Yeah....

 

Tailored would mean being able to read the interior of the cockpit.[/Quote]

 

Welcome to Rift S, Reverb and Index etc...

 

If you would read my part messages when CV1 was the top dog l, I said those same things, with explaining that when one can read all most important cockpit instruments without zooming or leaning forward then DCS is VR joy, because you can learn a new aircraft without zooming and leaning etc. I said two years ago that display is better than CV1 for learning the cockpit but not to fly, where CV1 is better. And that happened with Rift S. You see all most important instruments and labels without zooming and leaning, and you can spot fighter size takes like hornet from 6-8km distance and visually identify at 2-3km, ground units spotting is still far to unrealistic far, as that is just engine problem as there ain't foliage to hide units like MBT or IFV even from 50m range and there ain't feature for ground units to camouflage to hide them from FLIR, radar and visual detection. Yeah, game problem and not VR.

 

 

 

And Tailored wouldn't mean having a massive list of aircraft controls involving separate Left and Right differentiations of Control Alt and Shift modifiers. [/Quote]

 

If you are stupid that you use keyboard, then don't blame anything else than yourself.

 

If you fly with XBOX360 controller, don't blame anyone else than yourself.

 

If you have joystick with 3 buttons and 2 axis, don't blame anyone else than yourself...

 

This is simulator, you fly an aircraft that has hundreds of buttons, switches, lights, functions etc. Your keyboard can't handle all that.

 

But I have solution for all that.

VKB MCG that covers everything from A-10 to hornet or viper.

CH PRO Throttle that covers all from helicopters to viper etc.

 

And guess what, I only bind the functions that REAL aircraft does have. I have zero modifiers in use. My keyboard and mouse are 3 meters away from my flight chair.

When I operate the cockpit, I use my hands to press, flip, turn etc... The virtual cockpit IS MY COCKPIT.

 

When I want to adjust something in cockpit, I use my hands to reach the function and I make adjustment directly to virtual one.

When I fly, I place my hands on the actual HOTAS.

 

I am as limited to operate the aircraft as real pilot. I can't press a modifiers and HOTAS buttons to do anything else than real controls on aircraft allows.

 

I solved my problem in VR that displays with TrackIR can't solve at all.

 

DCS is more "One Size Fits None" for VR not "Tailored."

 

You are more as demanding that everyone should do that what your setup is.

So claiming that DCS ain't VR ready or "tailored for it" is just denying that what it really is capable.

 

DCS has its own problems, but that has nothing really to do with VR. And that is why they are again doing new graphics engine and terrain engine as there is much potential to tap on.

Which is exactly my point. And until companies accept that. We risk yet another round of "VR almost took off"

 

Which At this point would be probably my 3 or 4th go around with this since the mid 90's

The VR works great for two kinds of games...

1) driving simulators

2) flying simulators

And neither even combined ain't enough for high market development.

Why all VR companies are now first going to business market.

But do it this or that way, my prediction is that in a 10 years VR is gone... Because games that are made for it, ain't good enough. Most people do not want to jump, stand, wave hands etc to have fun.

Coach and console in front of TV is enough for majority.

3D died for two reasons,

1) required glasses that were dim and just annoying.

2) too much more expensive to buy 3D version. For gimmick features.

The current VR generation is 5th now. The 4th generation happened 13-14 years ago. And if we see the 6th generation, it will be then 10 years from now.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

@ micsmotionsimulator

what is business using VR for?

simulation...

So that is your problem. What you want? A 144 or 240 fps per eye?

No, just the native refresh rate of the headsets ie 80 or 90hz

ASW was meant to be a fallback in case the rate couldn’t be maintained and avoid occasional dips. DCS needs to run constantly in that mode which generates all sorts of artifacts, as described in the OP (and this is with literally the strongest machine available today) Continual frame doubling is a silly solution, nobody would accept this on a 2D screen as a substitute for a genuine frame rate.

When I said “tailored for VR” I meant a game specifically designed to be able to achieve this frame rate at all times. That would mean a game built from the ground up for VR and it would have to lack all the detailed models, terrain etc that you see in DCS. Essentially it would be something like VTOL. Look how simplistic that game is compared to DCS. But I’m sure it gets the frame rate.

Im getting consistently 50-90’fps at 90mhz in both single and multi player. Obviously closer to 50 mp and always above 70 in Single.

I honestly think Im limited by the resolution of the panels at this point. Anything I jack up at this point slows it down but does nothing for out of cockpit clarity. Happy with cockpit readability at least in the Tomcat and Hornet. Btw. The interior graphics and clarity of the F15 is amazing! Too bad its not clickable. If

Every cockpit was clear like that, yowza!!!

Happy flying!

So same way as does other VR titles require that....

Many, many,

 

 

many words

Nothing you’ve said supports DCS being “tailored for VR” just that like many things it is capable of being run in VR.

When I said “tailored for VR” I meant a game specifically designed to be able to achieve this frame rate at all times. That would mean a game built from the ground up for VR and it would have to lack all the detailed models, terrain etc that you see in DCS. Essentially it would be something like VTOL. Look how simplistic that game is compared to DCS. But I’m sure it gets the frame rate.

I don't think DCS would have to look like VTOL to hit 100FPS, but it would need to be rewritten from scratch, it's running on a VERY old core with a lot of kludge on top. And I'm not sure it could be done for free like it is now, you'd need real ice cold Mercs to make the code dance well enough to get reliable high frame rates, and those folks don't come cheap.