Best news for 2020: Focus on CORE of simulation

I'll repeat what I said many months ago, I still agree with this method of getting a bunch of modules out before the sort of lockdown and a season for a lot of core improvements, if it were the other way around, you'd be waiting for core improvements without F-18C, without F-16, without a bunch of stuff that's in-house, perhaps the 3rd-parties would be unaffected but still, it makes sense.

 

I think the whole MAC thing is a huge solution to the EA in DCS that we had to sacrifice for DCS future to be secured with key core improvements that are necessary to stand against competition, then the MAC can make the extra resources that is necessary to feed the DCS behemoth which is still a specialized area in comparison of all flight sims popularity. Just the hardcore tight community probably couldn't stand against other massive companies who can just throw 100x million into those civilian flight sims and the mass online ones. But I don't mean DCS could go away, it would just lag behind in tech probably.

 

I think that we have more than enough modules, even tho some areas aren't covered kinda we could leave for later but obviously most of it is not covered there's too much out there and DCS existed for what a bit more than a decade now, that's a fraction compared to ~70 years of history in real life.

 

I'm going to say this right now, ... there's one surprise aircraft coming, there's the WW2 stuff coming, that's two, and three the helicopter guys finally get their big fish right there as the core updates are dropping, the Mi-24 Hind/Krokodil, and if you think Mi-24 doesn't look cool I don't know what you're smoking. The DCS Warthog 2 and Black Shark 3 ... don't count as much as new modules but it's still a thing that's happening, and ofcourse finishing F-16 and F-18 ... there's a bunch of things going on as we can see, and there's a bunch of new people that don't have some of those modules yet, .... so I'm going to say this right now, I think I would cut out releasing any modules for a while, to let this be absorbed at all, that's harder to do when there's 3rd parties involved with their own schedules so I understand, perhaps expanding the development of those unit modules and save it for later so they're more complete when they get into Beta.

 

Is the combat flight sim community is big enough to properly take all this in to get the? The core upgrades are to be excited about and to get experience out of that for a while, unless the community gets bigger but I don't know. Now ofcourse none of this is extinguishable content, it's so deep and the learning experience rich that there's never truly an end, you can go back at any time even if you keep jumping to the latest things all the time, well some people may be fine with that and don't mind it, but the content I think would receive less attention and appreciation because I don't know if all the hype is genuine then when it's working like a conveyor belt machine. Even if a portion of community is hungry for more content I'm not too sure about if trying to serve the content ASAP is indeed better than delaying and letting them come back slower but steady, but when you draw a line it kinda ends up the same, but this is so hard to prove as we would need to be in an alternate universe and test both methods with exactly the same circumstances and product, the hype for F-16 was insane and testing the opposite method with another module may not be a valid test because there's just apparently nothing as big as F-16 at least in the popular community, I think I have the screenshots somewhere of the servers and forums barely responding that day.

 

So if more stuff comes ontop of saturated times it would get less the attention it may get otherwise, or they would steal the attention away, just saying. More niche and high-risk modules such as AC/C-130 would definitely be at a negative handicap if they're released at saturated time, that kind of stuff has to be purposelly released after some time of draught and then still some drought after it and that's not me being a wise guy kinda managing things for others, because that applies to myself as well and I'm saying things I would do for myself as well, I would like to increase my motivation for things that aren't my favourites that I haven't came across in history and it can be hard to create that emotional attachement sometimes, it takes a person to do some tricks to get the mind to start liking and appreciating and objectively treating it and not just shooing it aside because it's some unknown thing.

 

So I don't think things are exhausted, even if there's a healthy hiatus of less new modules, it shouldn't mean that everyone stops getting the stuff they queued up from before, I mean I have a bunch of things on queue, Warthog 2 and Syria map absolutely.

 

If modules are churned out too fast, well there may be a module famine in the future and could be a gap lacking of modules, real history is a finite resource.

 

 

EDIT:

 

I even could go as far to propose a crazy idea of having a community-agreed-upon-self module lockdown weekend or aka emergency module showcase weekend where a special scenario could be created DCS wide, where most modules would be temporairly disabled as if you didn't own them, so no F-16, no F-18, and only one or two aircraft modules would be enabled as part of this weekends AC/C-130 emergency showcase and we got a special mission here (MP and SP versions), downloaded as part of patch update for this feature, with the initial story for such showcases always beginning with an imaginary emergency story that we got lost somewhere and we have no other aircraft and we only have this damaged AC-130 to get back home, on the double move out go go go, we have to learn how to fly AC-130 now MUHAHAHA, sergeant get the manual will ya!

 

But ofcourse such a thing would be possible to disable as a failsafe for people who would totally not agree with it or whatever issue could arise, failsafe for any technical reasons, it would be a timer that would automatically run out as 2 days have passed according to the computer clock, which one could mess around if they wanted to, so even if you don't have internet connection it would unlock it self if you didn't yourself manually already, I'm not sure about providing a GUI button to disable, it's too easy, you could edit the special config file for this feature and get rid of the restriction. This way all those people who aren't interested in a module because they're busy with else but they keep having it on a queue and keep forgetting about it would then be kinda "forced" to try it, but not truly forced, just participating in a fun scenario that the whole community could enjoy and make fun stories about, well, in theory.

:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

I think that the announcement was a multi-year plan as well, the "beyond" gives them quite an out. But if they get Hornet and Viper to at least 90% complete, and give us half of the core improvements we are hoping for by year's end, it would be a banner year for ED, and I don't think we'd really have a valid complaint (but that isn't going to stop some).

As for the surprise aircraft, if we are starting a pool, put me down for the F4E.

I agree it would be be a banner year if we got half the core improvements, and the F18/16 "done" along with the Ka50/Mi24 and the new AI that it will bring with it.

The surprise A/C bumped the F4E, so whatever it is it won't be the F4E. My hope is Hi-Fi flanker or fulcrum. Though I'd be as happy for the F4E honestly, either way we get some Blue/Red balance for online play.

Agreed, I'm looking forward to core DCS improvements more than anything else.

Same here, hopefully not too many Early Release modules to add to the others that need continual progress. Optimization of the latest maps should be a focus point as well, and does anyone know if we'll will see proper kneeboard charts for Persian Gulf? I'm sure ED has a good Project Management rep keeping the Modules, Terrains, Campaigns flowing smoothly.

I appreciated this direction swing also. The engine has tired parts that have to catch up. Having the core as focus was something I specifically asked for some years back. Got to cover the cracks in the pavement.

I will add that I understand ED’s business model for putting out more platforms and scenarios. They pay the bills. Core improvements do not. So I get it.

I will add that I understand ED’s business model for putting out more platforms and scenarios. They pay the bills. Core improvements do not. So I get it.

^^^ditto

I'm reading the many comments here and many more colourful versions bluntly put over on redit.

ED developers, we know you had a great year last year, the sales proved that ontop of Waggs video's saying the same thing. Congrats and well deserved.

That said, this community has put up with a lot since the F16/JF17 releases, and the same 5 people posting over and over "nobody forces you to play beta" is as pointless as the replies they get. We all can at least agree, beta is still in community testing and nobody expects perfection.

However, quality standards since F16 release (DCS was about as good as I've seen it, right up until that point) have fallen. Many people have made their feelings known, from the singles like me with no following or real input, to those with massive youtube followings and everything in between. Please Don't make 2020 into another modules galore year alongside sale after sale after sale, while the core of the game disintegrates into several minutes of eye candy bliss, followed by endless frustrations and "don't you know u don't have to play beta version...."

Take the good year, and the revenues and plough it back into "lets make DCS great again" (someone had to say it). Don't screw this up, not just for my sake, but the communities sake, while is ultimately your sakes too. Stability and performance must take extreme priority, releasing patches that instantly mess up the entire game (steam 2.5.6) is one such easy example that shouldn't be acceptable in public alpha states.

Thank you if any of this is taken on board, seems many people are on similar wavelengths, some speak out more than others, and to those who only ever lick the rears - that's not cool, you know who you are.

I'm reading the many comments here and many more colourful versions bluntly put over on redit.

 

ED developers, we know you had a great year last year, the sales proved that ontop of Waggs video's saying the same thing. Congrats and well deserved.

 

That said, this community has put up with a lot since the F16/JF17 releases, and the same 5 people posting over and over "nobody forces you to play beta" is as pointless as the replies they get. We all can at least agree, beta is still in community testing and nobody expects perfection.

 

However, quality standards since F16 release (DCS was about as good as I've seen it, right up until that point) have fallen. Many people have made their feelings known, from the singles like me with no following or real input, to those with massive youtube followings and everything in between. Please Don't make 2020 into another modules galore year alongside sale after sale after sale, while the core of the game disintegrates into several minutes of eye candy bliss, followed by endless frustrations and "don't you know u don't have to play beta version...."

 

Take the good year, and the revenues and plough it back into "lets make DCS great again" (someone had to say it). Don't screw this up, not just for my sake, but the communities sake, while is ultimately your sakes too. Stability and performance must take extreme priority, releasing patches that instantly mess up the entire game (steam 2.5.6) is one such easy example that shouldn't be acceptable in public alpha states.

 

Thank you if any of this is taken on board, seems many people are on similar wavelengths, some speak out more than others, and to those who only ever lick the rears - that's not cool, you know who you are.

absolutely +1

same feelings.

The other thing is, why do us customers, particularly reddit ones, talk so much about sales and the kinda everything else but the content that's being sold ?!?!? (obviously It's impossible to talk just about the content as other things are important for complicated practical reality reasons and laws of physics (when you get down to the root), so it's more of a half-rethorical question, performance and optimization probably is a valid subject)

I've done deep thinking and it kinda clicked to me once, when I was reading those gaming forums with console wars discussions and I started thinking more about why would someone who's poor (they talked about it), living in a student home, having all this life infront of themselfs, be spending so much energy talking about someone else's life and a random company and how their financials work and who's going to rake in more profits, who can twist and lure in more customers, it's almost like being like a lawyer or an analyist for the company, or a counselor and advisor, it just kinda doesn't make sense, aren't the customers suppose to root for themselfs?

And piece by piece I got it, it's actually quite simple: It's a football type phenomenon, where game companies represent clubs on a football field, and you know how it goes, there's endless chatter in local pub discussion about this team and that team and this player and that player, and how did they do during the offseason, what could they do, what might happen in the next 3 months, what they should do, and oh my gawd please do something as the legacy variations of Russian jets may all be phased out of existance due to agressive upgrade programmes across the Russian military, and on and on and on, including all the irrelevant offtopic details, so is it just human nature of certain cultures that just seem to get a buff out of this, or what's the root cause, well, I'm not going to open a can of worms trying to speculate more about that :)

The habit can be unhealthy so I try to stay on the sidelines.

not sure what you are referring to, but from my point of view its really simple:

i payed years ago for a product that should be complete now (at least from my point of view).

and not only is far from being complete, but looks like its development (and bug-fixing) is slowing down every day.

i'm just a very worried customer, simple as that, and all chat about that is just for this reason, if i was an happy customer i would probably be playing on DCS instead of writing on forums.

I was talking in general, and I'm happy but I write sometimes more than I play so I'm guilty too. I find it guilty to not send feedback and there was a bunch of time I kept forgetting so I kinda do it ASAP as I notice something in-game.

But you know why I'm happy ... it's patience, you may be all right, but also it's because I might just have a different lifetyle with so many hobbies and interests and doing some post-additional education, so I can't be so hungry for DCS as I don't really go as fast and I digest it slower and I'm always behind, earlier I was soldering some cables, then I was continuing to setup Win7 on a VM and installing updates with WSUSOffline, yesterday I was writing some C# code and visited an open-day at a university for all things electronics, so where do you put DCS into all this hehe, but I do seem to manage to be around DCS quite a lot after all, there's still a bunch of stuff I have on queue for what I bought in the last 2-3 years, that sounds kinda that I'm stuck but no it's just that this isn't shallow game and there's so much I still learn, I have to learn Mig-21bis now because I finally want to go visit that real-life VR simulator with real-actual parts of Mig-21bis cockpit, so that's one on queue, for example.

But the pace is comfortable to me, catching up steadily with the core of the community, but I kinda purposelly go slower, but natively slower, it's not slower by force, by letting body and turn of events to choose it's pace, there's also another thing of appreciation, looking at those details and hard work of the developers, little house over at that end of the road there, not as if it's some psychosis around staring at tiny things thinking they're divine, no, it's about scenery relaxation effect that something isn't even designed for, but can work in such a way.

I have this attention for detail I got way early way back in nintendo console times when I played campagins and progressed through levels, I always found racing to the end to be annoying and kinda spoiling the experience, I had another friend, who teased me by telling me spoilers of various nintendo games and I had to cover my ears down, he didn't mean it that bad so he stopped doing it and he's still a great friend to this day but he just has his own pace and I kinda never got personal with him about his style as it just never got into me that I would want to talk him over to switch him, I just minded myself, it's not that big of a deal, it's not like some deed.

There's also a regular maintenance of controls for DCS, and looking at manuals, it's just another day in the office, I don't have a problem with that, but any updates to the controls pages, features, reference, naming consistency, is all welcome.

Well, maybe others who are around here for 10+ years may genuinely be up to speed a lot more than I am and are ready for new content, but it's the fact that the most hungry seem to be the new players and most impatient too :p

It may seem like I'm broadcasting this and saying it as if it's the only right way, no, it's my subjective thing and I'm not saying anyone should follow it, some people genuinely work hard 8 or more hours a day and they use DCS as their cup of tea and they really don't want to be messing with the central heating electronics and fixing some valves on pipes downstairs, but yeah I'm kinda freelance I don't have that kind of a schedule so perhaps I wouldn't if I were like that also, but whatever I cooked up it does seem to work in terms of being relaxed around DCS and whatever comes comes, but yeah I was jumping around when I hear about Warthog 2, I think half of the street heard my shout of joy on that one haha ... the thing is, I haven't bought any EA modules except F-18C which got updates as I moved a bit behind so I wasn't getting ahead of it to be upset, and so overall technically I kinda don't have a valid horse in this race so if I were to complain it wouldn't be fair.

I assume this focus on the core will be released as a new full priced version of DCS.

This was the best news, from my angle, in the Upcoming 2020 development statement:

 

"Most of the Eagle Dynamics team will be focused on improvements to the DCS World core that includes performance improvements, more realistic lighting, a new cloud and weather system, an outstanding damage modeling, a new airfield air traffic control system, air-to-ground radar and Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) sensors, improved missile dynamics, more life-like AI, new AI units, and a dynamic campaign system."

 

My emphases added.

 

Good work, ED! :thumbup:

Hopefully this isn't another broken performance-boost-promise... :worthy:

Hopefully this isn't another broken performance-boost-promise... :worthy:

i hope so....

I will add that I understand ED’s business model for putting out more platforms and scenarios. They pay the bills. Core improvements do not. So I get it.

If the core isn't good , modules and scenarios works bad... so they are less able to pay the bills.

I hope one day DCS ( maybe with the MAC separation ) could become a paid product like others do in the flightsim world, so core debugging and improvements can finally become a "pay-the-bills" work.

I assume this focus on the core will be released as a new full priced version of DCS.

fun enought coming from me, but i would happily pay for a core improvement … but under the right circumstances.

right now i'm so burn by my own mistake of buy an ED Early Access product, that i will never pay another penny for something that is not 100% completed, de-bugged, and with a free trial so i can test it myself.

so yes, i would happily pay for a core improvement, because i really believe that a good work has its price, and its totally fine pay for it.

the problem right now is the "good work" part… for example, i still have the flashing textures bug, i opened a topic, asked for help in some Others topics, and never had a solution.

thats not a good work for me.

It's the next DCS map. The Vulkan homeworld.:D

lol. I know what Vulkan is... my question is this: when ED talks of "focusing on CORE of simulation", do they refer to the Vulkan API?

I assume this focus on the core will be released as a new full priced version of DCS.

This community could do without this kind of toxic sniping and drive-by shit posting.............

.......scum!

I agree that focusing on the core is a smart approach. It is great to hear that ED has half their staff working on it. Modules etc are pointless if the core sim is broke.

Great to see ED working on the core!

I agree that focusing on the core is a smart approach. It is great to hear that ED has half their staff working on it. Modules etc are pointless if the core sim is broke.

 

Great to see ED working on the core!

Exactly. Though I did have someone respond once to me when I shared similar sentiments to yours and the response was that DCS is merely a cockpit simulation focussing on the aircraft themselves, their operation and procedures within the cockpit. Last time I checked DCS stood for Digital Combat Simulator, not Digital Cockpit Simulator. :doh:

Exactly. Though I did have someone respond once to me when I shared similar sentiments to yours and the response was that DCS is merely a cockpit simulation focussing on the aircraft themselves, their operation and procedures within the cockpit. Last time I checked DCS stood for Digital Combat Simulator, not Digital Cockpit Simulator. :doh:

Exactly. They do the most authentic and realistic depictions of airframes. But what is it worth to have that and not experience how it was properly used? You can sit on the pan all day and startup and shutdown, you can execute "sandbox" gun runs and rocket runs and weapon deliveries, by the numbers. All the combat has to be tied together into the experience. You need to experience what weather does to an aircraft for it's combat capabilities. Currently "overcast", "Fluffy things" "clear skies" doesnt cut that experience. The same goes for broader combat, process, ATC, the interactivity with the world, the realism of the engagements. That RWR... that accurately depicts every signal out there, was not how the F-117 was shot down. Those magic missiles doing strange things, the perfection of the sensors. The ATC/AWACS/JTAC.

I know a lot of folks come in fairly new to combat sims and they can accept a lot less, but if you hang around this hobby over the years you do learn things and how they were/are done as shared by the folks that did it for a living. You read manuals, processes and try to cram that into the DCS platform with a squadron that is perhaps run by military guys and it's always an itch that never gets scratched. Some shortcoming like IADS, weather, scripting interface, whatever.

I fully appreciate ED's direction change, the order they did things and their capability to give us more authentic experiences. It's not as fast as we would like, nothing ever is, my kids are about to leave home, but looking at the patch this year, hearing the message, at the very least, this is the year I asked for. So, I'll just say "thanks" :)

Yeah, its good to read, but honestly alot of it has been talked about for some time as I understand it, and not delivered. Clouds/weather have been talked about for years, same for Vulkan, which I really hope is coming and actually "delivers".

Exactly...........But don't hold your breath.

Happily holding my breath...

Happily holding my breath...

 

Hope in one hand...

The big VR upgrade was a nothingburger, i'm not expecting miracles from vulkan.