Harrier Training Missions

Hi imacken,

Just checked the UI Layer under controls, and found that VR Zoom was bound to the Space Bar, I have cleared the Space bar from that field. I ran the AV8B Cold Start Training mission, and knock me down, when I pressed the Space Bar when requested, the mission stepped to the next section.

I also ran the A10 Free flight Air start mission, set HUD to Guns, pressed the space Bar and Brrrrt.

So thank you so much for the suggestion, I am absolutely ex-static.

Thank you again. Nice one.:thumbup:

P.S. I use a TM HOTAS Warthog, and Saitek Cessna Rudder Pedals.

Does anyone have any alternative training missions for the Harrier? The ones supplied with the module are ridiculous. Far too detailed at too early a stage and boring and long-winded because of it (so you're never going to want to repeat them) but at the same time they are often flawed and reference subjects not yet covered.

So for the conventional landing mission almost the very first thing that happens is you are read out a long and boring list of crosswind tolerances (before you've even done your first landing - which has no wind set for it). As you try to commit those to memory for no reason at all you are then told that the airfield is in front of you - whereas the plane is actually headig out to sea and by quite a distance since the preamble to this point has been so pointlessly long. Then you're told the airfield is at waypoint 1 - but since waypoints have not been covered in the tutorials you need to drop out and go to Chucks guide.

Razbam have evidently tried to be geekily extensive but have stupidly missed the basics of what training is about and made it a boring and frustrating experience.

So has anyone yet invented their way around this with their own suite of training missions? Or I might just go fly something else.

The training missions aren't by razbam but by Baltic Dragon who makes really awesome campaigns like the mirage one, the enemy within 3.0.

The training missions are very detailed to make it realistic. I do agree that the waypoint stuff was not covered previously but everything else is detailed like the real procedure.

There are short version of the missions too. Which do cut down on some of the dialogue. I didn't find them boring at all. But I think redoing them could feel a bit like a chore. But to be honest it makes learning the module more interesting and interactive.

If they are too simple people will say they are not detailed enough or not interactive enough. I guess not everyone will be pleased.

Or I might just go fly something else.

You might want to go fly something else, The harrier is a very complex aircraft and requires lots of practice and knowledge to operate. It has lots of limitations that you need to know because it's not forgiving. The learning curve for this one is HIGH.

The training missions Baltic Dragon does are very comprehensive and true to real life harrier operations, and he assumes you read the quick start guide and the briefings before each mission, so your not starting from scratch. So if that's not your thing, then maybe you'd be happier in something with a shallower learning curve.

I have found that many of the online tutorials for the Harrier to be very helpful because they cover much of the same information presented in Baltic Dragon's Training Missions.

You might want to check some of the ones in ED Forums » DCS World Tutorial & Training Range » Guides & Tutorials » 3rd Party Module Tutorials » RAZBAM AV-8B N/A Tutorials.

IMHO, the missions flown by Grime Reapers are lighthearted and somewhat entertaining ...

You might want to go fly something else, The harrier is a very complex aircraft and requires lots of practice and knowledge to operate. It has lots of limitations that you need to know because it's not forgiving. The learning curve for this one is HIGH.

 

The training missions Baltic Dragon does are very comprehensive and true to real life harrier operations, and he assumes you read the quick start guide and the briefings before each mission, so your not starting from scratch. So if that's not your thing, then maybe you'd be happier in something with a shallower learning curve.

I've gotta back that up and say that the Harrier training missions are, without doubt, THE BEST training missions I've ever experienced in DCS. Yes they're incredibly detailed, yes they're complex, but they also teach you all about the aircraft, it's limitations and how to operate it. I wish all of the aircraft training missions were this detailed!

I've gotta back that up and say that the Harrier training missions are, without doubt, THE BEST training missions I've ever experienced in DCS. Yes they're incredibly detailed, yes they're complex, but they also teach you all about the aircraft, it's limitations and how to operate it. I wish all of the aircraft training missions were this detailed!

Although I agree with that, I do sympathise with MrShooty to an extent. The TMs by BD here are excellent, but they do assume a considerable amount of knowledge straight off the bat, which I have mentioned in the past.

This can make it very hard for people who may be new to DCS. Maybe the Harrier is their first module, who knows?

I do see the point also about the CL mission. It does start over the water when saying something about heading to Kobuleti. Now, anyone with any experience will know that the plane is around 80 miles from WP1 and can look at F10 map to orientate themselves, but the novice? Not so sure.

Also, MrShooty is right. Navigation, and hence WPs, has not been dealt yet by BD if following the TM order. This is something else I feel BD could easily change. It is conventional in most module TMs (and manuals) to follow this basic sequence:

- cockpit overview

- cold start

- take off

- navigation

- landing

- weapons

- countermeasures.

Now, BD doesn't follow this, with navigation being way down the list, and this can cause the type of confusion that MrShooty is experiencing.

Having said all that, I love BD's TMs, and because they are so detailed, they require repeated running to take everything in.

Hey guys, thanks for all your feedback. I'll review what needs to be swapped, though IIRC I did follow largely the training syllabus order, but I might have gotten something wrong :) also, you can never please everyone- so I decided to go for more comprehensive missions which I know won’t be for everyone. Still it is a study sim, so I figured more complex is better. And finally I agree - Harrier is not the best first module :)

Hello, i select Training - Mission 9 Full Case. Start.

Mission editor opens on start of mission!!!. Training messages and voice starts but i cant close mission editor... can you check? 2.5.5 latest stable release

It is a DCS bug nothing I can do about it. ED is aware and AFAIK is trying to find a solution.

I really enjoy these training missions and again I can't wait until you are done with the A10C training campaign..not to digress.

But I think what could help is just re ordering of the harrier training missions. Cockpit walkthrough, cold start, then insert the navigation one next and then the landing missions.

Hi sze5003, Wizard03 and Baltic Dragon. Thanks for your responses and I apologise up front if I was a little terse with my first post - it was a frustrating evening.

Whilst I greatly appreciate the level of detail that has gone into the Harrier missions it is worth considering the objective of a DCS training mission vs actually training in a Harrier. Most people get a new module and load the training to get them through the first few hours of flight and show them the basics. And I think we agree here what we have is a "How to do things properly" series for pilots who are already pretty familiar with the Harrier. I look forward to revisiting them in a short while and I'm sure I will enjoy them then and learn a lot when I do.

Wizard03 I disagree that the Harrier is more complex or requires more practice than other modules. It's not a simple one and I am enjoying the challenge but I fly most of the others too. I'm now getting on just fine with the Harrier using Chuck,YouTube and the mission editor.

Rather than rewrite and dumb down what are actually excellent training resources perhaps the solution would be to insert a pre-training chapter. A couple of quickie training sequences to start the plane, take off, hover and land and then one for nagivation would quickly get people to the fun stage where they could take in more. Then they can indulge and get the most out of the more in-depth training modules.

At the end of the day I'm like most DCS fans: I've spent thousands on my hobby but I still have a day job and I just fly a simulator for an hour or so each evening for fun. Your attention to detail is critical to maintaining the authenticity of the experience for everyone. But keeping the door open for us part timers is also much appreciated.

Hi sze5003, Wizard03 and Baltic Dragon. Thanks for your responses and I apologise up front if I was a little terse with my first post - it was a frustrating evening.

 

Whilst I greatly appreciate the level of detail that has gone into the Harrier missions it is worth considering the objective of a DCS training mission vs actually training in a Harrier. Most people get a new module and load the training to get them through the first few hours of flight and show them the basics. And I think we agree here what we have is a "How to do things properly" series for pilots who are already pretty familiar with the Harrier. I look forward to revisiting them in a short while and I'm sure I will enjoy them then and learn a lot when I do.

 

 

Wizard03 I disagree that the Harrier is more complex or requires more practice than other modules. It's not a simple one and I am enjoying the challenge but I fly most of the others too. I'm now getting on just fine with the Harrier using Chuck,YouTube and the mission editor.

 

Rather than rewrite and dumb down what are actually excellent training resources perhaps the solution would be to insert a pre-training chapter. A couple of quickie training sequences to start the plane, take off, hover and land and then one for nagivation would quickly get people to the fun stage where they could take in more. Then they can indulge and get the most out of the more in-depth training modules.

 

At the end of the day I'm like most DCS fans: I've spent thousands on my hobby but I still have a day job and I just fly a simulator for an hour or so each evening for fun. Your attention to detail is critical to maintaining the authenticity of the experience for everyone. But keeping the door open for us part timers is also much appreciated.

We should not forget, that - despite their flaws and need to be updated and resequenced - BD's TMs are very impressive compared to almost all others.

Compare these with the likes of the F-14. (Try the sidewinder Tomcat TM). Most of the ED ones by Wags are very good, but a lot of 3rd party ones leave a lot to be desired.

Don't forget also, that BD's TMs allow you to jump in at several points in each category of mission, and that is a big benefit too.

What I find frustrating is that BD is either too busy or not inclined to make some corrections and tweaks to these missions. It's the same with the Mirage ones.

For example, way back in this thread (I think!) I made a list of the various things that were either wrong or inaccurate about the Cold Start mission, yet I think most of them are unaltered for over a year.

The issue here is not unique to BD. Throughout DCS, resources are moved to income generating projects, which inevitably leaves a whole bunch of unfinished/EA produtcs being pushed down the priority list.

Understandable, but ultimately frustrating for the user.

:thumbup:

I've gotta back that up and say that the Harrier training missions are, without doubt, THE BEST training missions I've ever experienced in DCS. Yes they're incredibly detailed, yes they're complex, but they also teach you all about the aircraft, it's limitations and how to operate it. I wish all of the aircraft training missions were this detailed!

:thumbup:I completely agree

What I find frustrating is that BD is either too busy or not inclined to make some corrections and tweaks to these missions. It's the same with the Mirage ones.

 

For example, way back in this thread (I think!) I made a list of the various things that were either wrong or inaccurate about the Cold Start mission, yet I think most of them are unaltered for over a year.

 

The issue here is not unique to BD. Throughout DCS, resources are moved to income generating projects, which inevitably leaves a whole bunch of unfinished/EA produtcs being pushed down the priority list.

 

Understandable, but ultimately frustrating for the user.

I hear ya and I do understand. I would love to be able to quickly fix and update everything, but this is just impossible. I am one person with quite demanding day to day work, three kids and several projects - and doing my best to deliver on all of them. Still, if I start updating Harrier training I’d rather wait for some more progress on different fronts, finishing JDAMs and CAS page and adding some of the features the missions are waiting for before I work on them. Otherwise I will have to re-visit everything several times, which I think is not worth the effort and time. It is on my to-do list and I will deliver, promise.

Same with M-2K. I am almost done with updated manual, but there still are some features that needs adding / updating on the aircraft. Until this is done, there is no point for me fo go and update all training with new VOs etc, because it is likely I might end up having to change them few months later. If there is one thing I learned during development in DCS is not to rush anything. Having said all that - it will all be done!

Thanks imacken for your support and I plead for a little more patience :)

I hear ya and I do understand. I would love to be able to quickly fix and update everything, but this is just impossible. I am one person with quite demanding day to day work, three kids and several projects - and doing my best to deliver on all of them. Still, if I start updating Harrier training I’d rather wait for some more progress on different fronts, finishing JDAMs and CAS page and adding some of the features the missions are waiting for before I work on them. Otherwise I will have to re-visit everything several times, which I think is not worth the effort and time. It is on my to-do list and I will deliver, promise.

 

Same with M-2K. I am almost done with updated manual, but there still are some features that needs adding / updating on the aircraft. Until this is done, there is no point for me fo go and update all training with new VOs etc, because it is likely I might end up having to change them few months later. If there is one thing I learned during development in DCS is not to rush anything. Having said all that - it will all be done!

 

Thanks imacken for your support and I plead for a little more patience :)

Thanks BD, I do understand the huge pressure you are under, and thanks for all the great work you do!

I also understand that a lot of this is down to Razbam. I mean, how long does it take to get the TDC working in INS? I don't think it's me, but that is still not working after a very long time. Makes your Sensors mission pretty tricky!

Your dedication is appreciated, Baltic Dragon

Thanks BD, I do understand the huge pressure you are under, and thanks for all the great work you do!

 

I also understand that a lot of this is down to Razbam. I mean, how long does it take to get the TDC working in INS? I don't think it's me, but that is still not working after a very long time. Makes your Sensors mission pretty tricky!

Ah, thanks for the reminder :)

BD, just tried the Mavericks and Seidearms mission 3 times, and on each occasion, I can't get past the stage after dropping the first Mav, when you say as per the attached screenshot.

I turn to go back to WP2 with all sensors correct, and there are no further prompts from you!

I will check. I noticed that some of the “missile in zone” triggers stopped working, as the missile types assigned to them changed. My guess is that they added some new missiles to the list which swapped the default order and broke some things... (sigh) will check.

I'm doing Harrier training mission about target designation and waypoints.

There is a part when I use INS mode, and velocity vector to set up mark. It works. But then it tells me that I can use TDC to move that point around. Well... I can't.

Thats one. Second one, just few moments before that, it tells about WOF button... that should do something with waypoints or offsets? But all it does it switches to A/G mode.

Are those features working correctly? I'm doing this tut second time and I'm quite sure I didn't miss anything.

Which mission are you referring to?

I'm doing Harrier training mission about target designation and waypoints.

 

There is a part when I use INS mode, and velocity vector to set up mark. It works. But then it tells me that I can use TDC to move that point around. Well... I can't.

 

Thats one. Second one, just few moments before that, it tells about WOF button... that should do something with waypoints or offsets? But all it does it switches to A/G mode.

 

Are those features working correctly? I'm doing this tut second time and I'm quite sure I didn't miss anything.

 

 

You didn’t - some things, like TDC INS designation are still WiP. I included things in training how they should be to avoid having to constantly update them :)

It is frankly amazing that after all this time, we still can't use the TDC in INS mode. But, I guess that has been done to death in other threads.

This would explain why the training missions are not in the sequential order others expected them to be in. It all stems back to what's complete as a system and what still is work in progress. At least this way we can't say it doesn't have trainings at all.