VR Joystick/Throttle

I'd like also point to VTOL VR - it's best VR title at this point in time. Virtual joystick works almost flawlessly.

 

 

 

 

Just for pure immersion, I prefere Virtual Joystick solution.

 

 

I really wanted to jump into DCS. I waited for DCS full vr support. It's here. Clunky a bit, but I'm INSIDE. And now, just because I don't have special chair supporters for joystick (as it usually sat on table) - I have to skip VR. Why? You cannot reach switches through table, can you?

 

 

So now, I have to buy special, troublesome supporters for joystick for my chair. And I'm not sure will I do it.

 

 

 

With VTOL VR I just jump into flying. Sitting 2m in front of my desk.

 

 

 

You want some physical joystick? What is the problem to make same solution as ProTubeVR did for rifles? You put magnet-grip and problem solved. Just google it. No more troublesome switching joystick-vrController.

 

 

 

 

 

Versatility of VR solution is undeniable. Only competion is to have real-world-setup that matches 95% of one in VR. How many of you have such setup? How many of you have IIWW, Vietnam Era, and Modern Era models in one house? I dare to answer that none.

 

 

If DCS won't implement VTOL VR solution - it will loose gameplay hours spent of sim lovers that look for immersion, and with progressing of the VR tech (haptogloves becoming obsolate, as hand tracking tech is proggesing with first Oculus right now).

I don't think the physical hardware of joystick/throttle HOTAS concept will be going anywhere anytime soon. Will be interesting to watch how things progress over the next 5-10 years though.

Just for pure immersion, I prefere Virtual Joystick solution.

 

 

 

Well, for pure immersion, I'll just stay with my TH Warthog HOTAS. It's just laughable to suggest that something like a pair of Touch controllers is more immersive than HOTAS.

Well, for pure immersion, I'll just stay with my TH Warthog HOTAS. It's just laughable to suggest that something like a pair of Touch controllers is more immersive than HOTAS.

I have always thought the whole point of HOTAS is you don't look at the controls and switch gear it operates and have no need to find any key controls with your eyes. Which makes it seem perfect for VR, using controllers just like in the real thing by feel alone.

I have always thought the whole point of HOTAS is you don't look at the controls and switch gear it operates and have no need to find any key controls with your eyes. Which makes it seem perfect for VR, using controllers just like in the real thing by feel alone.

 

Yeah , if nothing else use of the controllers would be MUCH slower than clicking a Hotas switch .

Have you actually played VTOL VR?

 

 

Listen, jumping into here, with "vr joystick is shit" or "laughable" is just weak. If you think that joystick is better - great. Hard for you to admit that your multi-milion dollar setup is not that versitale as VR - good for you also.

 

 

I'm not alone with my opinion. Ppl are asking about VTOL VR solution.

 

 

 

I don't think the physical hardware of joystick/throttle HOTAS concept will be going anywhere anytime soon. Will be interesting to watch how things progress over the next 5-10 years though.

I'm not saying it will go away. I say that it will merge. Either ppl will play with VR + HOTAS with minimum switches, or on Full VR version.

 

 

 

It will be more accasable - less space required

more affordable - less equipment required

more immersive - you are inside the plane.

 

 

 

 

I have always thought the whole point of HOTAS is you don't look at the controls and switch gear it operates and have no need to find any key controls with your eyes.

As it won't be as fast as switches under your fingers, tell me, do you switch car buttons also like in CS:GO maniak? Do you really need this in DCS? Does pilots switch blindly stuff in their cockpits? Some - probably. But I must admit, after several hours in VTOL VR, while I know what to switch where - it's pretty fast, and... IMMERSIVE man. This is another leauge when you change subsystems with your hand, reaching it, pushing buttons IN SPACE, not with mouse sitting in same position where only body movemnets are little finger twitches.

 

 

If you want play as you play - just do it. You already can.

 

 

 

But don't deny ppl like me, to have fun like me and simillar ppl want to.

Have you actually played VTOL VR?

 

 

Listen, jumping into here, with "vr joystick is shit" or "laughable" is just weak. If you think that joystick is better - great. Hard for you to admit that your multi-milion dollar setup is not that versitale as VR - good for you also.

 

 

I'm not alone with my opinion. Ppl are asking about VTOL VR solution.

 

 

My multi-million setup? More laughable statements. Next you'll be claiming that a stock isn't better that controllers on their own for firing machine guns in FPS.

My multi-million setup? More laughable statements. Next you'll be claiming that a stock isn't better that controllers on their own for firing machine guns in FPS.

Oh... mr. Laughable.

 

 

Heard about what literature calls "exaltation"? Well... then we learn things everyday. And it's a good thing.

 

 

As you are just stubborn, and even shooting you into a moon wouldn't change your opinion that earth is flat, I'll write this to possible other ppl reading this:

 

 

You know what is the best shooter experience, that won't kill ya? AirSoft. Or Paintball. If you can afford it - there are some military system. Am I missing a point? Maybe. But I'm drawing a line of "what is possible" with limited amount of space and time. Games are same thing. Yes, stock is better then pure controllers, but fully designed AK47 trackable in VR would be even better, with running-in-place system of movement. And yet in Onward developers added option to have a "virtual stock". Shocking isnt it mr. Laughable. As clearly as stock is superior (and inferior to real gun), they dared to add this. Silly, silly developers.

A “VR Stick” using an Oculus controller can’t substitute for a real HOTAS because it doesn’t have enough buttons. The F-16 style stick in the A-10 has 21 buttons. And you need all of them.

The throttle has about 20 more. Plus you’d get tired holding your hands up in the air for a whole mission. VR Stick is for “hey wow I’m flying” games not for real sims. Hardly any player in DCS would use that feature so it would be a waste of resources for ED. There are more important things they could work on.

That's first reasonable argument.

 

 

But yet again - not totally true. I play VTOL VR for 2-3 hours (more then that is just tiresome from the VR setup, and that is common to any VR title). My arms are laying on chair. I've got little problems. If you say that DCS requires more time then that, then most of the Youtubers lie. And if so - DCS won't be VR title ever (unless VR will get to the point of comfortable 3+ hours)

 

 

 

About buttons - my Saitek X55 doesn have that much. So I presume, only very dedicated ppl can play DCS with top end hardware. Quick count for X55 is like 17 buttons. On my Odyssey Controller - 11.

 

 

Like I said, it's about compromise. And getting new players.

 

 

No everyone is pro full time dcs player. Being able to fly with virtual joystick would be awesome entry level. Because this is biggest problem for players now. And developer want more players. Then with progression of hands tracking, additional chair mounts and joystick could be for more pro players.

 

 

That's it.

 

 

PS. I also like your attitude "hey, wow I'm flying". I possibly do the same as I play Arma3 and all those peasents that are not playing Squad or Tarkow, or Arma, are below of my honor, as they are pleb to be discusted. I spit on those sunday drivers, as I'm the glory gamer of true mil-sims. We are like brothers now. F%$k noobs.

I tried that with X-Plane but I disliked the idea.

On X-Plane I only use my touchs, and I love it, because I don't do acrobatics, and I mainly use trim ...

 

But for DCS and IL-2, HOTAS is MUST, you need ACCURACY for dogfights, evading misiles, diving for bombing while AAA firing at you, etc, and that can't be done properly with touchs.

 

The day we can use HOTAS and hands/gloves for the cockpit will be great, but a HOTAS is must !!!!!

 

X-Plane was my first flight sim, and after that I tryed VTOL, and really didn't like the control with touchs, so I decided to buy a HOTAS to engage combat flight sims.

 

Of course it can be done, like you can play simracing with a gamepad, but if I don't a have a wheel, I prefer to play an arcade racer.

And if I don't have a HOTAS, i don't play a combat flight sim, I'll play Ace Combat instead.

 

The key is SIMULATION !!!! That said, DCS has also an arcade mode, and that with dumb AI, maybe there it can be done with touchs. But it seems that will be soon a separate product, MAC.

Edited October 10, 2019 by cercata

Because this is biggest problem for players now.

I really doubt that this is the biggest problem...

 

On my Odyssey Controller - 11.

So not enough. You wouldn’t be able to handle something like the A-10C effectively with only 11

Edited October 10, 2019 by SharpeXB

I have always thought the whole point of HOTAS is you don't look at the controls and switch gear it operates and have no need to find any key controls with your eyes.

 

As it won't be as fast as switches under your fingers, tell me, do you switch car buttons also like in CS:GO maniak? Do you really need this in DCS? Does pilots switch blindly stuff in their cockpits? Some - probably. But I must admit, after several hours in VTOL VR, while I know what to switch where - it's pretty fast, and... IMMERSIVE man. This is another leauge when you change subsystems with your hand, reaching it, pushing buttons IN SPACE, not with mouse sitting in same position where only body movemnets are little finger twitches.

What I mean is the best way of simulating a HOTAS in VR is a physical HOTAS. You have exactly what a real pilot has without needing to see the physical device, so works perfectly in VR.

 

Granted if people want a cheaper alternative using VR controllers then all well and good but I don't believe it could be considered a better solution. There still are plenty of buttons to switch on and off in the cockpit, just that the joystick and throttle don't need replacing for better immersion IMHO, it is there in spades!

 

 

You know what is the best shooter experience, that won't kill ya? AirSoft. Or Paintball. If you can afford it - there are some military system. Am I missing a point? Maybe. But I'm drawing a line of "what is possible" with limited amount of space and time. Games are same thing. Yes, stock is better then pure controllers, but fully designed AK47 trackable in VR would be even better, with running-in-place system of movement. And yet in Onward developers added option to have a "virtual stock". Shocking isnt it mr. Laughable. As clearly as stock is superior (and inferior to real gun), they dared to add this. Silly, silly developers.

 

Yes, I'd like an affordable VR gun put there isn't one. There are plenty of affordable HOTAS systems though. Anyway, at least you now agree that a physical thing is better than trying to control a VR thing with VR controllers. Imagine trying to drive a racing sim by moving the VR wheel with VR hand controllers!

But yet again - not totally true. I play VTOL VR for 2-3 hours (more then that is just tiresome from the VR setup, and that is common to any VR title). My arms are laying on chair. I've got little problems. If you say that DCS requires more time then that, then most of the Youtubers lie. And if so - DCS won't be VR title ever (unless VR will get to the point of comfortable 3+ hours)

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You're spreading a lot of opinion as fact. I regularly play VR for a whole day on the weekends, taking breaks to eat and stuff of course. As for adding a virtual stick, you are new to the game, so you don't understand that there is a list a mile long of things people REALLY want out of this sim, and that discourage new players much more than lack of a virtual stick (no save function in a scripted campaign!) so few people here will ever consider a virtual stick a priority.

If I will have an option to have physical stick with tracked hands - that's the nicest solution, but it costs me additional horas mounts and troublesome modifications of a chair (and change of current VR set, as only one has it right now).

 

But if I would get just physical controllers that controls my hands and they act both as hands and joystick (with important feedback haptics), then this would be my easiest to setup pick with most of middle ground of immersion. This is what VTOL vr delivers flawlessly.

 

I never said that VR joystick is better. I said that one unified system ( just controllers ) that lets you forget about other separate systems (horas + vr, horas+vr+controllers) is for me just better.

 

I never claimed that I did science behind amount of hours spent, but I have few avarage Joe vr users, and they confirm that 2-3h is comfortable. Beyond that can be tiresome. You also have your opinion, and your friends. You can share your observations, and we migh come out with something. Nothing to do with science...

 

Possibly you are right. But yet again, on my example and few others from my neighborhood went have similar issues: equipment and sheer amount of stuff necessary to start. I'm still not playing because I need those damn chair mounts.

About those hours... No, I stand by my "opinion" are closer to facts. I was on several game dev events with VR lectures. Many of Devs did research and they did say even about 1h of comfortable gameplay in vr for most users (I think one of those who said that it was a director of this vr movie we with rabbit and ufo).

 

That's why most of vr titles are rather quick games. But this is just side note.

About those hours... No, I stand by my "opinion" are closer to facts. I was on several game dev events with VR lectures. Many of Devs did research and they did say even about 1h of comfortable gameplay in vr for most users (I think one of those who said that it was a director of this vr movie we with rabbit and ufo).

 

That's why most of vr titles are rather quick games. But this is just side note.

Just my opinion but to the serious simulator fan most VR specific titles tend to look rubbish. I think they are separate markets where VR gets added to serious simulations and VR titles designed for room space game play using controllers along with cartoon like graphics to run at refresh rates.

 

Maybe there is a middle ground but I would argue DCS developers have plenty on their plate with their primary VR user market before exploring it, the PC requirements are much higher for a start.

Just my opinion but to the serious simulator fan most VR specific titles tend to look rubbish. I think they are separate markets where VR gets added to serious simulations and VR titles designed for room space game play using controllers along with cartoon like graphics to run at refresh rates.

 

Maybe there is a middle ground but I would argue DCS developers have plenty on their plate with their primary VR user market before exploring it, the PC requirements are much higher for a start.

 

I agree. Some VR users seem to think that a title is only truly VR if they can control it with their VR controllers. This is wrongheadedness. When it comes to hardcore sim fans, all VR is is a graphics package option. DCS is aimed at the hardcore not the arcade crowd. Do hardcorse flight sim fans go over to arcade titles and demand they be made more hardcore? No they don't.

 

The OP should accept DCS for what it is or look elsewhere, imo.