Jump to content

Model Visbility in 2.5?


TwojaStara

Recommended Posts

Does any body knows if model visibility/model enlargement/model scaling/LODs are going to be enhanced in 2.5 so that we have something better than in 1.5.x? (I don't have 2.1/2.2 so I cannot compare it to 1.5).

 

As per Sithspawn I could find only that "this issue is reported, the issue is being discussed internally, and the issue is being worked on as it can be around changes in the new engine." - https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=157129&page=66 . Also I couldn't find Wags stating anything related to this problem/bug(?)...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

A lot of activity is going on with the overall graphics engine, once that stabalizes, and things are more finalized I think they will be able to tune it better, previously it seemed any improvements they tried to make were undone by upgrades and changes elsewhere.

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that spotting is on the list. :D

New system:I9-9900KS, Kingston 128 GB DDR4 3200Mhz, MSI RTX 4090, Corsair H150 Pro RGB, 2xSamsung 970 EVO 2Tb, 2xsamsung 970 EVO 1 TB, Scandisk m2 500 MB, 2 x Crucial 1 Tb, T16000M HOTAS, HP Reverb Professional 2, Corsair 750 Watt.

 

Old system:I7-4770K(OC 4.5Ghz), Kingston 24 GB DDR3 1600 Mhz,MSI RTX 2080(OC 2070 Mhz), 2 * 500 GB SSD, 3,5 TB HDD, 55' Samsung 3d tv, Trackir 5, Logitech HD Cam, T16000M HOTAS. All DCS modules, maps and campaigns:pilotfly:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I asked a similar question here and a couple of people said there are lighting changes in 2.5 that might help with target spotting. I spoke about this in another thread I can't find now as well, and someone said that one issue with spotting targets in 1.5 is that their size is determined by pixel count, so the higher the screen resolution, the smaller the target. I reduced my resolution from 1440p to 1080p and found spotting targets easier. I believe Lao Fei Mao is talking about the graphics in 2.x, since they are speaking about the Vegas map.

 

May I ask which a/c you're flying? I wound up solving my target spotting issues by switching from the Su-25T to the Viggen because I found it much easier to spot targets from <100m altitude rather than 200-500m. Here's hoping you don't have to buy another module to solve your problem.

 

EDIT: Apologies, I inferred that you were asking about ground targets. If your question is about air targets I’m afraid much of this post is irrelevant.


Edited by Horns

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I think we don't get in DCS that you do get in the real world is the "glint" that another aircraft throws off when the angle is just right Vs the sun.

Other aircraft also become more visible when they change to an aspect that's closer to planform than head on or tails away.

 

I know from my own flying IRL, towers often tell you to look for traffic in the pattern that's "Wing Up" turning base ahead of you and yes, aircraft become much more visible when you see the entire top of the wing...

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php

High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use.

www.crosswindimages.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fly in VR and I've recently upgraded my graphics card which has allowed me to turn on Deferred Shading... and while it looks fantastic :shocking: I've found it almost impossible to spot other aircraft now. With DS off I get a nice dot in the distance but that seems to be completely gone once DS is turned on. Fingers crossed that its just a temporary problem and it get fixed in 2.5 otherwise I'm going to be getting shot down more than I already do :thumbup:

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AFAIR MiG Alley by Rowan had this nice feature already back in 1999.

 

Good Point! That would be nice to see...

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding model scaling, I always find that the tankers are much smaller than what they are supposed to be.

 

The Su-27 is almost as big as the tankers...

 

Just my feelings but maybe i'm wrong, what do you guys think about that ?

Theraphosa // Metal from France

[sIGPIC]Theraphosa[/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I think we don't get in DCS that you do get in the real world is the "glint" that another aircraft throws off when the angle is just right Vs the sun.

 

that would be one of my most desired features concerning spotting. ideally the glinting would also be rendered when the aircraft's distance makes it getting rendered as single pixel only (a.k.a. most distant LOD without proper geometry and maps/shaders). obviously the glinting effect would be scaled back to a minimum then, but would probably still help a great bit with spotting/gameplay and immersion/authenticity...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of activity is going on with the overall graphics engine, once that stabalizes, and things are more finalized I think they will be able to tune it better, previously it seemed any improvements they tried to make were undone by upgrades and changes elsewhere.

 

Can it be passed on that we need a consistent spotting system (whether easier or harder) that does not depend on monitor resolution?

 

Example:

 

If I run 4K resolution (native) spotting is quite difficult at long ranges.

If I downscale to 1440p spotting at long ranges becomes much easier - big dots

If I downscale to 1080p I can see F5s from 50km.

 

It cant be right that the main determinant of visual range is resolution. There is another odd curiosity whereby zooming out at range makes the dots bigger and zooming in makes them smaller. Eh?

 

Thank you.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]



64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron

Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron

TS: 195.201.110.22

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's clearly something up with all kinds of spotting in DCS. Last night two of us couldn't tell whether the plane at the other end of Kutaisi runway was an F15 or an A10. I was in the oculus, the other player on a 1080p monitor. Even zoomed in I could only tell what it was when the plane was halfway down to the runway already.

 

When one zooms in and out units appears and disappears too. This can't be correct either.They should be visible unzoomed as far as they would be zoomed in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can it be passed on that we need a consistent spotting system (whether easier or harder) that does not depend on monitor resolution?

 

We had one with the Pixel enlargement aid, but it was removed and not replaced with a better option. And the "hardcore crowd" felt it was a cheat and often turned off. However, most of those had never flown in a real jet and dont know what visibility is in air.

 

Over Afghanistan, I was often able to pick out another orbiting tanker/AWACS sized aircraft at 30-40 miles. Fighters typically 15-20. Not all eyeballs are the same though.

 

Back to game.

So now we're forced to dumb down our graphics to overcome a huge oversight <--- no pun intended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We had one with the Pixel enlargement aid, but it was removed and not replaced with a better option. And the "hardcore crowd" felt it was a cheat and often turned off. However, most of those had never flown in a real jet and dont know what visibility is in air.

 

Over Afghanistan, I was often able to pick out another orbiting tanker/AWACS sized aircraft at 30-40 miles. Fighters typically 15-20. Not all eyeballs are the same though.

 

Back to game.

So now we're forced to dumb down our graphics to overcome a huge oversight <--- no pun intended.

 

It's a shame to think that there was a solution to this that was criticized out of existence. I seriously considered quitting the game because it was so hard to spot targets, and I don't think I'm alone, and one would think that losing players over this would be worse than people being spotted too easily in multiplayer. Sad that ED (or whoever) wasn't able to just disable the pixel enlargement aid (anyone else worried about making a typo with that?) in multiplayer.

  • Like 1

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/R/e/Reconnaissance.htm

 

An F-15 at over 60' in length can be seen from 35nmi using the site above while head on this would be below 10nmi. I'm not sure on how true this is but if people with rl experience state similair then there must be something right there but 35nmi seems a bit much in my inexperienced opinion.

 

The problem with DCS is there is no distinction between aspect at those ranges plus the previously used imposter method would allow you to id an aircraft type from impossible ranges such as 30nmi all while appearing only 5nmi in front of you (depending on imposter size setting), total immersion killer.

 

The biggest problem with visuals in DCS has always been within the 5nmi range where the lod either shrinks or disappears, this was still a problem with the imposter method as the imposter only rendered outside this range. This imo is what ED need to concentrate on.


Edited by Frostie

"[51☭] FROSTIE" #55

51st PVO "BISONS"

Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10

https://100kiap.org

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team
Yea, you can't even make out the tanker from barely 1 mile out in DCS lol.

 

You probably need to stop by the eye doctor then ;)

 

Interesting read while we wait for 2.5 and see what ED can do once the graphical updates slow down.

 

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/9594/what-is-the-longest-distance-at-which-an-aircraft-can-be-visually-identified

 

And this

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3343542&postcount=2

395888783_DCS2018-01-1021-26-05-99.thumb.png.15c540d7123240ef15de52983cd12d6e.png


Edited by NineLine

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

 

Over Afghanistan, I was often able to pick out another orbiting tanker/AWACS sized aircraft at 30-40 miles. Fighters typically 15-20. Not all eyeballs are the same though.

 

 

SME pilots working with ED state that generally the limit is 5-6 nm in ideal conditions for a fighter-sized aircraft. Engine smoke, contrails or glint can extend that of course. Even at 5-6 nm, sensors or ATC/AWACS direction is needed to cue the pilot where to look.

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been claimed that the really legendary Aces like Yeager, etc. enjoyed the advantage of detecting enemy at unusually great distances compared to most other pilots.

 

Our peripheral vision is actually more sensitive than dead center in the eyeball. "Off Center Viewing" is something I was taught in private pilot training. Scan outside, pause in each quadrant to look but be aware of what's around the edges.

 

Which brings me to this:

I'm sure it was a quirk of the 1s and 0s but in the mission editor the other day, I had a MiG 29 trying to track down a Harrier from way high and far away. When the MiG was in the center of the screen relative to the Harrier, you couldn't see the contrail from the MiG. But if I rotated the exterior view of the Harrier such that the MiG was in the corner of the frame, the contrail was plainly visible...

 

Coincidence? You decide...

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php

High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use.

www.crosswindimages.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team
It has been claimed that the really legendary Aces like Yeager, etc. enjoyed the advantage of detecting enemy at unusually great distances compared to most other pilots.

 

I saw that quote as well, I believe it was something about being able to see German planes over Berlin from the Channel... nothing against the great Chuck Yeager, but I am not buying that one more than just Chuck Yeager speak ;)

 

Nick Grey of the TFC, who flies WWII birds on a regular basis said that on average, small WWII fighters are around 3nm. Obviously dependant on many things. This is most likely only spotting them as well, IDing them in combat conditions would be another thing.

 

ED talks to and has Pilots on staff, don't think that they are ignorant to what is needed or expected.


Edited by NineLine

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...