Black Shark 2 Trimmer issues

Hey everybody,

the trimmer issues are an always discussed thing as it is quite a pain in the but when I crash caused by the trimmer is making my stick to be ignored.

So I understand what happens there. The input will be ignored as long as the stick is recognized again to be centered. But if I leave my hands off the stick, it wont get controllability back again, which results me in a crash, next time it works again, so I can´t find a "system" about how it works properly. The behaviour of the trimmer seems to be a "mood depending" (I feel good so I gonna work for the Pilot, or I feel bad...no I have no intentions to work now, I rather want the Pilot see crash :doh:)

While I was searching for a solution I got on this: Link

But what exactly does that mean? For my understanding I think that the values have to be raised rather than lowered.

On other sides I noticed somethings about that I can disable this in the Game options...but I doesnt really find anythings there.

Can someone please give me an explanation on this all?

But what exactly does that mean? For my understanding I think that the values have to be raised rather than lowered....

You are correct in that the values have to be raised from the default 0.05%. As per the post, the values are first raised to 0.5% (a 10% increase) and thereafter lowered incrementally towards the default 0.05% until you find the value that works for you.

Try a value of 0.2% first and work from there.

By unticking the 'CENTRAL POSITION TRIMMER MODE' box in the Misc Options menu, it will revert to the alternative method of trimming, thus negating the necessity of centering the inputs.

Thanks for this advice, Viper. I gonna try this out.

Okay, this has always baffled me -- unticking or ticking "Central Position Trimmer Mode".

In my setup, that box is unticked, yet I am using "trim and release controls within 0.05 seconds"-----so I am wrong in what I am doing?

Nope, that's fine.

Nate

Thank you Nate.

You may have noticed, that after reading tons of "trim" topics, one can end up totally confused concerning "what are the true answers?"

how can i change delay when inputs are ignored after trim release (center trim method box is unticked) i feel like this duration = 0

I want to make game to ignore inputs for about 3 sec after trim release

Also i want to separate ruders from trim

I have ruders and no FFB joy, so center trim method isnt comfortable to me bcoz im always forget to center ruders what leads to ignored joy input until i remember to center ruders AND joy AGAIN cuz i moved joy after first center (witout rudders). So i want game to ignore inputs for 3 seconds to give me chance to center all, and then force input back in, even if controlls are not centered (if it ll be only rudders - its not very bad)

Sorry for my english.

Also sorry for posting same post in 2 threads, im just want to know it NOW =D

Check PeterP's signature for a guide to seperate rudder from trim.

To alter the trim behaviour, checkt Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\FMOptions.lua, the line with "HelicopterTrimmerTauInverse" might be your friend. Not sure, though

EDIT: Just check the first post. It contains a link to a very good description of the FMOptions.lua file contents.

Trim Trim Trim...... Must be hundreds of post about this already..

Trim the way it feels best for you. There is no right or wrong way in this game.

I HOLD the trim button, MOVE my stick to where i want it, and then RELEASE the button. Works perfect for me all the time.

Keep pressing the trim button makes the heli goes up or down..Very unpredictibly..

Trim Trim Trim...... Must be hundreds of post about this already..

Trim the way it feels best for you. There is no right or wrong way in this game.

I HOLD the trim button, MOVE my stick to where i want it, and then RELEASE the button. Works perfect for me all the time.

Keep pressing the trim button makes the heli goes up or down..Very unpredictibly..

I do the same works perfect for me.

Trim the way it feels best for you.

Post of the year :)

Nate

OK, so from studying the Ka-50 trimmer system from all the way back when BS1 was released, this is my take on things:

For all those people preaching the press and release method of trimming, you are setting up people for bad flying. Press, hold and release is actually more realistic for those with non FFB sticks.

The problem is that the press and release method is what is used in an actual Ka-50 with proper control hardware.

The biggest problem with trimming in the sim right now and the reason there are so many posts and treads on this topic, is because most people fly using a non FFB stick. With a non FFB stick you have to release the stick in order for it to centre. This procedure usually take about a second or so and in that second, you have absolutely no control over the helicopter. The reason people are getting jumps in pitch after trimming is because of "errors" that accumulate in the autopilot with changes in flight parameters. This is actually normal and is what happens in a real Ka-50. The problem is you cannot correct for them because you are waiting for your stick to recentre.

The way a real Ka-50 pilot would do it is by pressing and releasing the trimmer button but since there is no wait for you stick to recentre, the pilot can immediatly correct for "error bump" and press the trimmer again. With each successive press of the trimmer the bumps get smaller until you would have a perfectly trimmed helicopter.

The way to do it in the sim is with a technique I havent seen mentioned before.

make a coarse correction without pressing the trimmer. When you are done, press AND hold. you should only have to hold it for a second but in that second you still have control and you can correct for the error bump. When the helicopter is stable, release the trimmer. This essentially simulates a real Ka-50 pilot pressing the trimmer 2-3 times to get perfect trim.

OK, so from studying the Ka-50 trimmer system from all the way back when BS1 was released, this is my take on things:

 

For all those people preaching the press and release method of trimming, you are setting up people for bad flying. Press, hold and release is actually more realistic for those with non FFB sticks.

 

The problem is that the press and release method is what is used in an actual Ka-50 with proper control hardware.

 

The biggest problem with trimming in the sim right now and the reason there are so many posts and treads on this topic, is because most people fly using a non FFB stick. With a non FFB stick you have to release the stick in order for it to centre. This procedure usually take about a second or so and in that second, you have absolutely no control over the helicopter. The reason people are getting jumps in pitch after trimming is because of "errors" that accumulate in the autopilot with changes in flight parameters. This is actually normal and is what happens in a real Ka-50. The problem is you cannot correct for them because you are waiting for your stick to recentre.

 

The way a real Ka-50 pilot would do it is by pressing and releasing the trimmer button but since there is no wait for you stick to recentre, the pilot can immediatly correct for "error bump" and press the trimmer again. With each successive press of the trimmer the bumps get smaller until you would have a perfectly trimmed helicopter.

 

The way to do it in the sim is with a technique I havent seen mentioned before.

 

make a coarse correction without pressing the trimmer. When you are done, press AND hold. you should only have to hold it for a second but in that second you still have control and you can correct for the error bump. When the helicopter is stable, release the trimmer. This essentially simulates a real Ka-50 pilot pressing the trimmer 2-3 times to get perfect trim.

Thanks, Titanium! I just tried this out on the gunnery range and had the best flight of my short BS2 career so far.

I think you've got something there.

how can i change delay when inputs are ignored after trim release (center trim method box is unticked) i feel like this duration = 0

I want to make game to ignore inputs for about 3 sec after trim release

can anyone answer this guys question? I'm curious myself about this.

...Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\FMOoptions.lua

change "HelicopterTrimmerTauInverse" to a suitable value.

OK, so from studying the Ka-50 trimmer system from all the way back when BS1 was released, this is my take on things:

 

For all those people preaching the press and release method of trimming, you are setting up people for bad flying. Press, hold and release is actually more realistic for those with non FFB sticks.

 

The problem is that the press and release method is what is used in an actual Ka-50 with proper control hardware.

 

The biggest problem with trimming in the sim right now and the reason there are so many posts and treads on this topic, is because most people fly using a non FFB stick. With a non FFB stick you have to release the stick in order for it to centre. This procedure usually take about a second or so and in that second, you have absolutely no control over the helicopter. The reason people are getting jumps in pitch after trimming is because of "errors" that accumulate in the autopilot with changes in flight parameters. This is actually normal and is what happens in a real Ka-50. The problem is you cannot correct for them because you are waiting for your stick to recentre.

 

The way a real Ka-50 pilot would do it is by pressing and releasing the trimmer button but since there is no wait for you stick to recentre, the pilot can immediatly correct for "error bump" and press the trimmer again. With each successive press of the trimmer the bumps get smaller until you would have a perfectly trimmed helicopter.

 

The way to do it in the sim is with a technique I havent seen mentioned before.

 

make a coarse correction without pressing the trimmer. When you are done, press AND hold. you should only have to hold it for a second but in that second you still have control and you can correct for the error bump. When the helicopter is stable, release the trimmer. This essentially simulates a real Ka-50 pilot pressing the trimmer 2-3 times to get perfect trim.

Great summary titanium.

I have trimmed in BS1 by making the coarse inputs with the trimmer held. It worked for me then, but it doesn't work for me now.

Flying the gauntlet of =STP= Dragons "hardcore terrorists" used to be relatively doable (I won't say easy - that mission is still a bitch! :D) as I would jink and dodge to avoid incoming AT-2's and the like. I am able to maintain control with the trimmer depressed for seconds at a time 5-10 at least. The ship would be stable and I could apply really wide deflections of the cyclic with complete confidence. And this is with the default axis curves.

Now, with BS2, the same press and hold technique is not the same.

Where I used to be able to charge in at 250km/h and flare to a stable hover in a few seconds, now takes much, much longer. It's like I have suddenly turned ham-fisted.

I have had to radically adjust the axis curves to user to maintain the same level of stability.

I have no idea what has changed, except that something has changed, and I'm not keen on re-learning to fly the Ka-50. I want to be able to jump on a server with my flying buddies and shoot it up, not act like a total noob. :cry:

Great summary titanium.

 

I have trimmed in BS1 by making the coarse inputs with the trimmer held. It worked for me then, but it doesn't work for me now.

 

<...snip...>

 

Now, with BS2, the same press and hold technique is not the same.

Where I used to be able to charge in at 250km/h and flare to a stable hover in a few seconds, now takes much, much longer. It's like I have suddenly turned ham-fisted.

OK... so that's weird.

I was having all of the nightmarish BS2 Trimmer problems that others have been reporting until I started doing exactly what isn't working for you. As soon as I started holding the Trimmer before the start of any maneuver and then releasing when I'd stabilized to the desired attitude, I gained totally smooth control over the aircraft.

I just checked my settings and noticed that I DO have CENTRAL POSITION TRIMMER MODE checked in the MISC settings.

For what it's worth, I'm using a TM Warthog and moved the Trimmer from S3 (which is horrible) to S4 which is wonderfully natural.

Hope this helps.

I'll have a look at that when I get home tonight.

Are you flying with FD on?

S3 and S4 - are they TM WH specific or trimmer settings in FMOoptions.lua?

I have a Saitek X52Pro.

Been flyin Black Shark since day 1.... No doubt about it, the trim "system" feels totally different... Still using my same X-52 pro. :huh:

I'll have a look at that when I get home tonight.

Are you flying with FD on?

 

S3 and S4 - are they TM WH specific or trimmer settings in FMOoptions.lua?

 

I have a Saitek X52Pro.

I'm flying with the FD off. Every post I've read on the subject seems to suggest to real Ka-50 pilots wouldn't normally fly it with it turned on, so I try not to use it.

As for S3 and S4, they're specific buttons on the Warthog. They're both at the bottom of the stick and activated by your little/pinkie finger.

S3 (which is the default mapping) requires a lot of pressure and has very little travel, so it's easy to accidentally release the button in mid-maneuver which results in all sorts of horrible behaviour form the helicopter.

S4, however, is a long lever with lots of travel and fairly low resistance. That means that I can comfortably hold it for long periods while maneuvering.

I might try to put together my first ever Youtube video at some point, because I definitely found the new Trimmer very frustrating until I figured it out.

......feels totally different...

You will have to be more specific about what has changed - I can't say I see a difference in how it operates.

Nate

So what you are saying, Nate, is that there has been no recoding at all of the trimmer system and/or how the helicopter behaves through pilot inputs?

With so many people saying the same thing must count for something.

Granted the same amount of people saying nothing has changed, but they would probably be in the camp of those who use the trimmer as per real Hokum pilots, or not at all (I know a couple that don't trim).

I will try and sort out a couple of track files showing the differences way I use trimmer in BS1 and BS2.

Originally Posted by Dozer

Trim the way it feels best for you

You'll see that I do it differently than the more experienced and hardcore pilots here.

OK, so from studying the Ka-50 trimmer system from all the way back when BS1 was released, this is my take on things:

 

For all those people preaching the press and release method of trimming, you are setting up people for bad flying. Press, hold and release is actually more realistic for those with non FFB sticks.

 

The problem is that the press and release method is what is used in an actual Ka-50 with proper control hardware.

 

The biggest problem with trimming in the sim right now and the reason there are so many posts and treads on this topic, is because most people fly using a non FFB stick. With a non FFB stick you have to release the stick in order for it to centre. This procedure usually take about a second or so and in that second, you have absolutely no control over the helicopter. The reason people are getting jumps in pitch after trimming is because of "errors" that accumulate in the autopilot with changes in flight parameters. This is actually normal and is what happens in a real Ka-50. The problem is you cannot correct for them because you are waiting for your stick to recentre.

 

The way a real Ka-50 pilot would do it is by pressing and releasing the trimmer button but since there is no wait for you stick to recentre, the pilot can immediatly correct for "error bump" and press the trimmer again. With each successive press of the trimmer the bumps get smaller until you would have a perfectly trimmed helicopter.

 

The way to do it in the sim is with a technique I havent seen mentioned before.

 

make a coarse correction without pressing the trimmer. When you are done, press AND hold. you should only have to hold it for a second but in that second you still have control and you can correct for the error bump. When the helicopter is stable, release the trimmer. This essentially simulates a real Ka-50 pilot pressing the trimmer 2-3 times to get perfect trim.

@titanium, Have you looked at this topic?

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=82341

Look in particular this post:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1342460&postcount=76

One more thing about press-hold-release method. After pressing and holding the trimmer, I do not just move the joystick to a new position, but stabilize the helicopter in the new desired direction, and then I release the trimmer. This gives me a smooth flight. Otherwise If just move the joystick to a new position and release the trimmer, depending on condition of the flight, the autopilot will try to stabilize the bird in current(at the moment of trimmer release) direction. Which I feel like a bump. To avoid this I use FD mode when is necessary (firing unguided rockets, low level flight, etc.). With FD mode on, I use press-immediate-release without problems, because the autopilot does not attempt to stabilize anything.

So what you are saying, Nate, is that there has been no recoding at all of the trimmer system and/or how the helicopter behaves through pilot inputs?

With so many people saying the same thing must count for something.

Granted the same amount of people saying nothing has changed, but they would probably be in the camp of those who use the trimmer as per real Hokum pilots, or not at all (I know a couple that don't trim).

I will try and sort out a couple of track files showing the differences way I use trimmer in BS1 and BS2.

 

 

 

You'll see that I do it differently than the more experienced and hardcore pilots here.

AFAIK the only thing was the FFB bug. Nothing else has been changed in the code I've been told.

Nate

A big reason I think I notice a difference in BS2 trimmer is my computer cant play it as smooth (FPS) which leads to difficulty managing trim and flying. On simple "instant" missions its far easier to control and fly, but the campains can be a challenge when the action hots up. I'm talking sub 15FPS performance.