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DCS F/A-18C | Air to Air Refuelling Tutorial [Early Access]


104th_Maverick

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;3484153']Mainly looking at the wing, the fuel pod and the number 1 engine on the C130 sir.

Once I'm actually in the basket I tend to watch the USAF symbol on the rear of the 130 and aim to keep my canopy lined up with it on the right hand side.

 

 

As long as you have contacted the tanker to take fuel it should reduce the angle of its turns and the speed it rotates at, which makes the job of following along much easier :)

 

Cheers, thanks for the answers and great videos! :thumbup:

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;3484624']Hi, yes the aircraft handles it very well. FCS really looks after you and keeps you stable, I even left my flaps in the AUTO position refuelling at that speed and it was very manageable.

 

 

You can see me plug in a few more times in the Live Stream I did last night, I plug in a couple of times to the KC130 going below 250kts, then later in the stream I connect up to a S3B multiple times while taking fuel for carrier landing practice.

 

 

 

[YOUTUBE]xK8yDWBR_5E[YOUTUBE]

 

FWIW, I know that "Jello" (retired Legacy Hornet USN pilot who runs The Fighter Pilot Podcast) said that he always had a personal preference to refuel with full flaps. IIRC he said it was split between guys he flew with; some preferred Auto, some preferred Full. Full would obviously help a bit with the slow speed stability as well, although it doesn't sound like it is needed :thumbup:

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FWIW, I know that "Jello" (retired Legacy Hornet USN pilot who runs The Fighter Pilot Podcast) said that he always had a personal preference to refuel with full flaps. IIRC he said it was split between guys he flew with; some preferred Auto, some preferred Full. Full would obviously help a bit with the slow speed stability as well, although it doesn't sound like it is needed :thumbup:

 

Interesting, I flew with jello back in the day when we were JOs. I hate facebook but I did glance at the content he is offering. This should be a goto reference site for anyone wanting to learn the finer details of flying the hornet in the navy. From what I remember he wasn't a gamer and probably still isn't so I doubt he has checked out DCS (I could be wrong).

 

Regarding refueling, one of the things that I have yet to see any sim get right is the dynamics between the aircraft along with the massive physics involved with airflow.

 

Not only do you have to deal with a more sluggish aircraft when you slow below 250kts but there is a dynamic variability between the aircraft that is a result of pilot stick/throttle input, airflow and inertia of all aircraft involved.

 

Even if a plane is on autopilot (like the tanker is) it will always be constantly moving in 3d space as a result of various changes in air pressure causing the autopilot to slightly raise and lower the aircraft to maintain an altitude number.

 

Up/down side to side and fwd/backyards is constantly happen even in the smoothest of air. This is what makes real-life refueling stressful and formation flying challenging.

 

Alas pc flight sims never seem to model this dynamic right, the AI planes always seem to be locked into 3d space. I have flown formation with AI in most of the recent flight sims and none of them model this variability. Real shame.

 

Just watch a few real-life formation videos and you will see what I am talking about.

 

One more note on the dcs hornet refueling video out there, the visual checkpoints of using the hud are not possible once in close to the tanker. Your head is no longer looking straight on and the hud is not in your field of view when looking at the probe/basket.

 

For the hornet, your best technique (as mentioned in the video) is to look through the basket and plane and reference the horizon so to keep you stable and not chase the basket with the probe. I have seen way too many close calls by pilots who wouldn't do this and chase the basket. It was never pretty when they did that.

 

And no, air to air refueling is never smooth like the video is showing for the reasons I stated above.:book:

Here is the proof, watch midway through the video for a near mid-air collision between two heavies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiN9M0ahfmM


Edited by neofightr
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neofightr - Just out of curiosity, after reading your comments above about the aircraft constantly moving relative to the air mass and each other - have you ever tried cranking the turbulence setting in the ME as high as it will go & taking fuel with that on ?

 

I'm not sure what happens with the turbulence at altitude, but I've tried it with landing on the carriers, and it makes that a more demanding experience...

 

Does it seem more, or less realistic to you ?

Cheers.

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neofightr - Just out of curiosity, after reading your comments above about the aircraft constantly moving relative to the air mass and each other - have you ever tried cranking the turbulence setting in the ME as high as it will go & taking fuel with that on ?

 

I'm not sure what happens with the turbulence at altitude, but I've tried it with landing on the carriers, and it makes that a more demanding experience...

 

Does it seem more, or less realistic to you ?

 

You are reading my mind. I haven't bothered doing the refueling setup yet because I want to save my DCS first impression for the f18 module.

 

My plan is to do refueling with default values then crank turbulence up to see if the AI planes are affected. My gut feeling is that they won't be. I will be posting my first impressions of the module on the forums once I get a couple of hours in.

 

One thing I did notice on some of the f18 streamer videos is that the devs do add a little extra turbulence as you near touchdown on the carrier. It doesn't look like much but it's better than nothing.

I plan to save my experience at the carrier with the f18 module as well.


Edited by neofightr
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Interesting, I flew with jello back in the day when we were JOs. I hate facebook but I did glance at the content he is offering. This should be a goto reference site for anyone wanting to learn the finer details of flying the hornet in the navy. From what I remember he wasn't a gamer and probably still isn't so I doubt he has checked out DCS (I could be wrong).

 

Regarding refueling, one of the things that I have yet to see any sim get right is the dynamics between the aircraft along with the massive physics involved with airflow.

 

Not only do you have to deal with a more sluggish aircraft when you slow below 250kts but there is a dynamic variability between the aircraft that is a result of pilot stick/throttle input, airflow and inertia of all aircraft involved.

 

Even if a plane is on autopilot (like the tanker is) it will always be constantly moving in 3d space as a result of various changes in air pressure causing the autopilot to slightly raise and lower the aircraft to maintain an altitude number.

 

Up/down side to side and fwd/backyards is constantly happen even in the smoothest of air. This is what makes real-life refueling stressful and formation flying challenging.

 

Alas pc flight sims never seem to model this dynamic right, the AI planes always seem to be locked into 3d space. I have flown formation with AI in most of the recent flight sims and none of them model this variability. Real shame.

 

Just watch a few real-life formation videos and you will see what I am talking about.

 

One more note on the dcs hornet refueling video out there, the visual checkpoints of using the hud are not possible once in close to the tanker. Your head is no longer looking straight on and the hud is not in your field of view when looking at the probe/basket.

 

For the hornet, your best technique (as mentioned in the video) is to look through the basket and plane and reference the horizon so to keep you stable and not chase the basket with the probe. I have seen way too many close calls by pilots who wouldn't do this and chase the basket. It was never pretty when they did that.

 

And no, air to air refueling is never smooth like the video is showing for the reasons I stated above.:book:

Here is the proof, watch midway through the video for a near mid-air collision between two heavies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiN9M0ahfmM

That's great colour. Thank you.

 

Out of interest, did the military grade simulators you trained on replicated this turbulence?

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That's great colour. Thank you.

 

Out of interest, did the military grade simulators you trained on replicated this turbulence?

 

Back in my day (late 90s), the software talent and cpu power wasn't up to speed to even try so practicing carrier landings was very basic and there was no air refueling feature.

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Back in my day (late 90s), the software talent and cpu power wasn't up to speed to even try so practicing carrier landings was very basic and there was no air refueling feature.

Thank you. Amazing how far technology has come over the last 20 years.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Any tips for refueling on the S3-b tanker instant action mission? the extra 100+ knots makes it really twitchy to stick input.

 

I tried it a couple of times and have given up, have moved on to my landing patterns lol. With the Viking I can do alright for a short bit then he starts turning and I'm stuffed. Is the AAR easier with the other tankers?

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The tanker appears to move at around 344-345kts, and if you are doing the instant mission, with the weight of that aircraft, I split the two throttles and aim to have them set somewhere around 79-80%. I'm no expert and sorry if this appears, to the purists, to be doing it by the numbers, but it does work for me.

 

As you get to the pre-contact position, set the two engines to 80-81%, you can gradually reduce these settings to 79% for both, at the point of contact. This should allow you to keep pace with the tanker, with an occasional adjustment usually to just one of the throttles.

 

You still have to worry about the lateral and vertical alignment, but if you set up early enough, you should be able to connect.

 

Overall though, the amount of fuel can load, before disconnecting, has increased, perhaps more down to the amount of time I have spent practising

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So I edited the mission and slowed the tanker down found it a bit easier to get a connection. though I have to say the I find the Harrier easier may because I'm focused on the picture and not the cage. There's only one real cure I guess and that's practice.!

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I tried it a couple of times and have given up, have moved on to my landing patterns lol. With the Viking I can do alright for a short bit then he starts turning and I'm stuffed. Is the AAR easier with the other tankers?

 

Make a mission yourself in the mission editor and set the Viking on a long straight flight path. You can get plenty of practice of approaching and staying connected then without having to worry about him making a turn on you. If you're not sure how to set a mission up I'll send you on a simple AAR mission I made.

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It drives me crazy that when you get out of shape they say return to precontact and pull the drogue in. Once they put the basket out it shouldn't go back until we are done or they are out of gas. Having to wait and fumble with the F1 comms is nuts. I have been 5ft from the drogue and they send me to precontact and pull the basket in. Makes me wanna BRRT!

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The tanker appears to move at around 344-345kts, and if you are doing the instant mission, with the weight of that aircraft, I split the two throttles and aim to have them set somewhere around 79-80%. I'm no expert and sorry if this appears, to the purists, to be doing it by the numbers, but it does work for me.

 

As you get to the pre-contact position, set the two engines to 80-81%, you can gradually reduce these settings to 79% for both, at the point of contact. This should allow you to keep pace with the tanker, with an occasional adjustment usually to just one of the throttles.

 

You still have to worry about the lateral and vertical alignment, but if you set up early enough, you should be able to connect.

 

Overall though, the amount of fuel can load, before disconnecting, has increased, perhaps more down to the amount of time I have spent practising

 

Greyman, thanks for sharing this. Trying this led to my first full refuel. This and setting force feedback to 40% X and Y axis.

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does that thing land on the Stennis? The KC-130?

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Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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Great tutorial, as always !

Thanks mate.

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