Gazelle Flight Dynamics... Again. - ED Forums
 


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Old 03-13-2017, 08:01 PM   #1
Focha
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Default Gazelle Flight Dynamics... Again.

Hi guys,

I don't know if you remember this post:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165929

Huge discussion about FM as you probably are all aware.

So I haven't had anytime to fly in the simulator since that discussion. I've got a brand new PC and I've install DCS and tried you Gazelle.

It is to my astonishment, that the Gazelle continues not to operate as a helicopter in hover and specially turns.

I recall that I have a few hundred hours in real life helicopters, from Robinsons where I took my CPL to AS365 Dauphin.

I really thought you guys could fix the problem and the behavior, but it's still present. And please, if there are pilots that validate your FM, please give them my contact because I would like to take a talk with those experts...

When you turn in a helicopter, using artificial stabilization or not, the helicopter must "follow" the turn. Your FM of the Gazelle, if you turn, the nose simply stays there.

That is not, let me say this again, that is not how it is suppose to behave. The helicopter should follow the turn. Meaning that it should be changing its heading thus it's yaw rate! Even without pedal into the turn!

In your Gazelle, its like its necessary pedal input to make it turn into the roll.

Also, it is not really noticeable the dynamics of hover, without stabilization!

I don't know if I am expressing right or if you are understanding what I am trying to say here. Simply put, no helicopter flies like your Gazelle!

I have real life experience in R22, R44, AS350, AS365 and Ka-32. None of those helicopters flies like your Gazelle.

Although they fly a lot like the Huey and the Ka-50. The resemblance between the Ka-50 and Ka-32 in real life is amazing. The Huey is comparable to the AS365, although AS365 has less vibration. But speaking in flight dynamics, all those helicopters fly the same, meaning, you expect the same behavior with the obvious differences.

But I am sorry to say this: Your Gazelle is not flying like a helicopter.

I was really expecting that after so many time it would be corrected, but it's still the same.

And I am not talking about stabilized flight.

I hope you see this critic not as destructive, but constructive in the way that you will try to fix it. If you have the money, please take some helicopter hours or pay to an instructor and you will see what I am talking about.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind regards and hope the best.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:38 PM   #2
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https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=183142

Quote:
Hi all,

I have been contacted by the CEO of Polychop and he asked me to publish the following statement:

Quote:
Hi all,

Due to a restructuring of Polychop, we are very busy at the moment. Until internal legal issues are sorted out, we are unable to post any status. Nevertheless I can assure you all that the team is working hard on all open issues.

I am sure the team will address your issues and concerns in time.
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:22 PM   #3
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Every now and then I hop in and see if any progress has been done.
Just to get disappointed :/
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:20 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGNEWY View Post
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=183142




I am sure the team will address your issues and concerns in time.
Ok. Thank you for the heads up, I missed that post.

Hope everything is ok with Polychop-Simulations and its personnel.

Kind regards,
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:32 PM   #5
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I agree with the OP. I really hope the flight model of the Gazelle is reworked before the bo105 is released. The basic principles of rotary flight dynamics largely carry through from helicopter to helicopter. The Gazelle in its current state does not fly like a helicopter. I really hope the FD coding lessons are learned now and not after the release of a second module. Otherwise the module is fantastic but what needs to be it's shining light is currently it's biggest flaw.

I wish Polychop the best with their restructuring and hope they can return to coding soon.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:51 PM   #6
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Relevant quote from an F-15 test pilot attached. Applies to all conventional airplanes/helicopters IMO.

But, as BIGNEWY said, for now it's best for us to just wait.
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket Sized View Post
Relevant quote from an F-15 test pilot attached. Applies to all conventional airplanes/helicopters IMO.

But, as BIGNEWY said, for now it's best for us to just wait.
Taken out of kontext, and put in this thread, it could be taken wrong.

AFK, learning to fly a new aircraft or helo, isn't about learning it all again.

For aircrafts, mostly to learn about special caracteristics, for example stalling, and to learn how to operate it in the safest way. For multi engine aircrafts, the handling and procedures if one engine quits.

Helicopters, most part is about emergency procedures. Autorotation, stuck pedals or single engine failure if you have at least a couple differs a lot between types. Other emergency procedures, för example hydraulic system failure has to be known exactly and trained, otherwise youre dead if it happens.

Thats said, it it a tremendeous difference in handling between helicopters (and arcrafts). Some are quite alike, but not all. Of course, the laws of natures applies to all flying things.
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:02 PM   #8
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The flight model of the gazelle feels more like "arcade mode" to me. Lifting off in the UH-1, you have a tremendous sense of inertia, gravity, momentum... just simply "physics", but in the gazelle, significantly lighter though it may be, it feels as though the air density it 5 times normal and gravity is 1/5th normal. I was hoping it would be twitchy, and difficult to fly, like a very light version of the UH-1, but it is twitchy as in spikey game controllers and a very odd flight model.

I am not a helicopter pilot but I do fly large scale RC helicopters, and in many ways the comparitively tiny RC helos I fly are far less abrupt and responsive than the Gazelle flight model (which I find confusing)

It's almost as though the "granularity" of control inputs are far too coarse. That is, it feels as though the model is sampling the control positions every 3 seconds. You push the cyclic over a fair amount and wait and then all of a sudden "woosh" the helicopter banks you relax to the center position but the bank continues to get more severe, only to then settle back into level flight seemingly in disconnect with the stick position.

I understand that there is a filter of SAS control happening here, but in all other DCS aircraft, SAS is virtually transparent and enhances the feeling of control, not intensify the feeling of disconnection with the controls (i.e. out of phase timing-wise)

Does the actual helicopter behave this way? I'ave tried several input curves to try and smooth it out, but the fundamental proble, is not one of smoothness, but of abruptness, as in the controls feel as though they are not working in am analog fashion, but in a digital one, with abrupt "steps" i.e. instead of 1,2,3,4,5,6 degree increments, you have 10,20,30 degree discrete incrememnts with no steps inbetween.

I can fly the UH-1 at 50 feet at 90 knots, pull up on the cyclic while decreasing collective, turn into a side skid and reduce forward speed to 0 and gently touch down all without gaining more than 50 feet of altitude so I don't think my smoothness or control skill is the problem.

I could be full of crap, but the flight model of the gazelle feels not only arcade, but twitchy arcade. If it was twitchy simulator, I would be immensely happy!

I hope there are major overhauls to the FM of this aircraft soon...

p.s. They keep talking about how this was tested by real gazelle pilots. Did those pilots also fly and compare the UH-1 and Mi-8 and KA50 sims? Just curious...
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:21 PM   #9
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thank god, it is not just me. I bought the module yesterday on Easter sale. Was expecting a light helicopter that feels more dynamic than a Mi8. Jerky at lift off, once I made it to forward flight it flies as stable as a plane! That cannot be right. Changing collective does a lot to the torque needle but nothing to the yaw of the helo.

I hope PC can sort out their currents probs and improve the FM. Unless that is fixed I won't buy a Bo105 (which I would reeeeally like to)
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asset View Post
thank god, it is not just me. I bought the module yesterday on Easter sale. Was expecting a light helicopter that feels more dynamic than a Mi8. Jerky at lift off, once I made it to forward flight it flies as stable as a plane! That cannot be right. Changing collective does a lot to the torque needle but nothing to the yaw of the helo.

I hope PC can sort out their currents probs and improve the FM. Unless that is fixed I won't buy a Bo105 (which I would reeeeally like to)
Above 80Km/h, most of the work is done by the fenestron.
Try in hover or under 80Km/h
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