INS Alignment implementation

Guys, the RAZBAM devs already said in the podcast that they will use the unrealistic INS alignment times because IRL the ground crew aligns it befor the pilot is even sitting in the cockpit, that's their argument for the decision.

At LEAST make the ALCM alignment necessary. If you have an issue with that, you are probably playing the wrong genre. How can they use unrealistic times if the IRL ALCM is only 1m 30s? Even for an intercept that would be fast.

The very first DCS module has 1/10th the real world align time with no option to set it to realistic. The A-10C's systems are heavily faked (allegedly), half the Mi-8's systems didn't work for a full 2 years after release and it's been confirmed that some will never be implemented (such as the bomb sight). The UH-1H doesn't model a single fuse out of the 5 million or so it has and the MiG-21Bis has options for invincible engine + fake gunsight/HUD in the misc menu. But no, it's adding an additional icon option in the realism panel (server enforced) and maybe shortening a simple timer for a completely uninteresting and mundane thing from 8 minutes to something else that will ruin DCS's realism and turn it into an arcade shooter.:doh:

In French, we say : une tempête dans un verre d'eau :)

Hat, coat... ;)

Guys, the RAZBAM devs already said in the podcast that they will use the unrealistic INS alignment times because IRL the ground crew aligns it befor the pilot is even sitting in the cockpit, that's their argument for the decision.

can't buy the real mirage to put it in my real hangar or stol one on next army base.

But if I could, I would'nt have any ground crew to assist me, and the aircraft would expect me to wait the full time of alignement.

I have the possibility to get a virtual high fidelity one in my virtual hangar,DCS is a bit like "my private warbird heritage virtual museum collection " for me

when I fly it at my virtual aeroclub, for sure I would'nt have any ground crew for assist me.

I want to do it myself, as the real aircraft react in real world.

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

The game is crowded by assistance option. But everyday DCS realism is taken away.

 

Now we have huge freaking blobs in the sky and land, while people calling for more visilibity could have used "labels".

 

They are air start, runway start, and even autostart for those who aren't willing to rampstart. Nope, let's cut the INS.

 

Lot of people are just not assuming the simulation side of DCS. If you are afraid doing regular rampstarts, just go freaking deathmatch server or don't die.

 

a few minutes is nothing. just prepare your flight plan, if you really want realism.

+1

We fly only on multiplayer in our squadron but we want to wait the full length for the alignment, like in the real jet. If you don't care about "game wars" in public, there is so much to do while your jet aligns it's systems. At least - we want to fly a hardcore study sim, not an arcade game sim.

I hope Razbam includes the full 8 minutes INS alignment for "ramp start", the 4 minutes memory alignment for hot ramp start and if you want a ramp start without INS alignment or one minute (or so), just add a option in the misc settings, which is forced by the server.

Best regards,

Fire

We fly only on multiplayer in our squadron but we want to wait the full length for the alignment, like in the real jet.

What's stopping you from waiting 8 minutes before taxi even if the sim doesn't "require" you to do so? I'm sure any vsquadron that tries to fly "realistically" has a bajillion in-house rules they follow that aren't in any way enforced by the game...

Also, the stored heading alignment is 1 minute 30 seconds, not minutes. Just FYI. Kinda highlights the absurdity of this thread when the aircraft itself provides options that basically satisfy everyone.

Anyway, I think it's about time we started a 10-page thread petitioning ED to implement realistic rearming times. If I want to fly another sortie I should have to sit around for at least an hour while the ground attaches new weapons and reloads my cannons. Enough of this arcade nonsense! I thought this was meant to be a simulator! :music_whistling:

Most of the time, we fly one sortie per mission with an average duration of 1.5 up to 3 hours. So, we (for us) don't need fast rearming times. :)

I read somehere here, that the fast alignment needs 4 minutes. If it's 90 seconds in the real jet, it's fine.

regards,

Fire

Most of the time, we fly one sortie per mission with an average duration of 1.5 up to 3 hours. So, we (for us) don't need fast rearming times. :)

Yet it exists in the game and ... doesn't hurt you at all! ;)

I read somehere here, that the fast alignment needs 4 minutes. If it's 90 seconds in the real jet, it's fine.

The problem here is nobody care when someone gives true data.

Azrayen answer should have stop the argument. But I guess people like to fight.

The A-10C's systems are heavily faked

I already knew about it, but I'm still interested, which systems are faked and to what extend?

Well, this is a bad decision. It's not a case where data isn't available and they have to "fudge" numbers. It's not even a case where playability would really be compromised (like the Ka-50's 30 minutes alignment time) by keeping the real numbers.

Offline, you can use time acceleration. Online, use ALCM or hot start.

Really Razbam should reconsider. It is setting a bad precedent and carrying doubt on their willingness to provide an accurate model. This is DCS not War Thunder. :noexpression:

Not having 8 minute alignment time = war thunder :megalol:

I love this community

I'm all for the default options being modeled in as realistic a way as possible.

However, at some level, this is a game, and some folks like to play it as such. Therefore, for particularly onerous periods of activity, i'm all for an option in the mission editor or server settings for "Enable accelerated startups" which would allow faster alignment on various planes or whatever else we want to do.

There's nothing wrong with violating realism as long as it's acknowledged as such. Same way we love fictional skins on our aircraft, or making behavior changes via lua. Everyone knows they're not "real," but so what?

Why are we still talking about this?

Ramp Start: Full Alignment Required

Hot Start: Saved Align Data

Runway Start: Already Aligned

Why are we still talking about this?

 

Ramp Start: Full Alignment Required

Hot Start: Saved Align Data

Runway Start: Already Aligned

Because if this is what you believe or want, this thread will never end lol.

It's more like this (using RL info about INS):

from Ramp / without ALCM: Full / partial Alignment Required (alignment time will impact accuracy).

from Ramp / with ALCM: Saved Align Data

from Parking Hot: Already Aligned

from Runway: Already Aligned

The very first DCS module has 1/10th the real world align time with no option to set it to realistic. The A-10C's systems are heavily faked (allegedly), half the Mi-8's systems didn't work for a full 2 years after release and it's been confirmed that some will never be implemented (such as the bomb sight). The UH-1H doesn't model a single fuse out of the 5 million or so it has and the MiG-21Bis has options for invincible engine + fake gunsight/HUD in the misc menu. But no, it's adding an additional icon option in the realism panel (server enforced) and maybe shortening a simple timer for a completely uninteresting and mundane thing from 8 minutes to something else that will ruin DCS's realism and turn it into an arcade shooter

So what is next ?

Following your idea, no change should be made to Mirage Missiles. After all, Russian missiles and US missiles are failed already, if you listen to their pilots. For the sake of gameplay, let's keep the Magic and R520 stats as it.

Anyway, everyone's flying F10. Let's just not put INS alignment at all. Unsure anyone would notice :P

and it's been confirmed that some will never be implemented (such as the bomb sight)

Sorry for the OT, but where was this stated? Not concerned about the Mi-8 bombsight per se - can live without it, no problem - but what other systems were mentioned?

The fan :P

The fan :P

To stop this, in my view, useless discussion:

We will enable a reality option on the INS alignment. Those who want it will enable it and those who don't will disable it.

But FYI, right now it only requires alignment when dark and cold. Even if the process is not coded.

To stop this, in my view, useless discussion:

 

We will enable a reality option on the INS alignment. Those who want it will enable it and those who don't will disable it.

 

But FYI, right now it only requires alignment when dark and cold. Even if the process is not coded.

That is the best possible outcome, I am one of those players that like the alignment time being correct so having a option to do so is exactly what I wanted.

yup, awesome.

thanks!

To stop this, in my view, useless discussion:

 

We will enable a reality option on the INS alignment. Those who want it will enable it and those who don't will disable it.

 

But FYI, right now it only requires alignment when dark and cold. Even if the process is not coded.

Will the reality option be ALN, ALCM, or both?

To stop this, in my view, useless discussion:

 

We will enable a reality option on the INS alignment. Those who want it will enable it and those who don't will disable it.

 

But FYI, right now it only requires alignment when dark and cold. Even if the process is not coded.

Thanks for answering that. But it raises two questions on my side:

1: How about MP? Will it be possible for the server admin or the mission maker to force this setting?

2: What Deezle said:

Will the reality option be ALN, ALCM, or both?

Not having 8 minute alignment time = war thunder :megalol:

 

I love this community

Did you miss when other people posted the actual options and times for the INS alignment? Hint: it's less then 8 minutes for all but one, which, in practice, won't be the most often used/needed. So there's indeed no good reason not to model them as they are IRL. I fly DCS to get as close to the real thing as possible. I don't even have nor an I interested in the FC3 planes.

I get it that you enjoy quick MP fun and that's all right : you can get your quick online dogfight fun WITH the real INS settings modeled by RAZBAM. Everyone happy that way !

you can always light one during the INS with canopy open and personnel clear and no one is looking, specially this guy:

I think this discussion was in no way useless. The community and customers voiced their opinions on the topic which resulted in a very sufficient solution for both parties, those who want it realistic and those who like it accelerated. Something similar was achieved for the Mig-21 with the disputed rudder help during taxiing.