'Mid Range' DCS Modules?

Hi all,

It's probably best if we wait to see how the various modules develop and are made available before jumping to conclusions. We don't know EDs full plan for releasing these and as Wags often says "everything is subject to change". We have some awesome modules (both high fidelity and whatever the other one is called :) we can enjoy them until the new other ones are available.

Ken

Not that i like to think bad or something. Yet this last announcement about the Su-27 and F-15 has kinda shocked me. In fact, they are saying that:

- we bought the two AC in FC3, mid fidelity systems, mid fidelity flight model

- we will soon buy the two ACs again, mid fidelity systems, high fidelity flight model

- in a remote future, we are going to buy them a third time, High fidelity systems and flight model.

 

Let me put this from other perspective:

ED has developed FC3 with a bunch of characteristics, you, as a customer interested in that game have purchased it. Fine, you have received what you have paid for. Now,several month after that and because ED is a company as everyother, they have decided they are going to develop and AFM for 2 aircrafts;the F15 and SU27. And obviusly to develop this AFM they are paying qualified professionals and once ready, they expect to sell his software that happens to be an addon for his previous products marketed under other name, so they can survive as a company.

You, as a costumer have the chance to decide whether you are interested in the product or not. In the meantime many of us who like improvement in the game are happy to receive another addon,this time a 'small' one. Exactly what is the problem here? Where does it say that once you have paid for a product and improvement or addon to that product should be free to you, for the god sake?.

Do you feel betrayed by AUDI because you bought an A4 last year and the have released a new version

this year that is almost the same, so you want them to replace your car for the new one for free?

What ED is really saying is:

1-We are deloping and AFM for this aircraft,and once ready we are selling it.

2-Later on we'll be deloping a packet of avionics(radar,radio,mfd,etc...),one ready we'll sell it.

It seem like something ver normal to me, nthing evil there.

Remember that you always have the option as a free costumer to buy something or not, please use it.

They way I see it, we get the 15 and 27 as a module for DCS but just with AFM, then later we get to upgrade to full blown study sim.

Make sense to me. I think the F18 will go the same way. Basic first then upgrade to awesome level later.

Ok here's what happens i think;

FC3 owners will get updated flight model for F15 and SU27 for free

Non FC3 owners will have the option to buy just either of the above, ofcourse cheaper then FC3 would be.

Doing this would allow to keep only one flight model for the two planes.

(well two, for the nitpickers, one for F15 and one for SU27)

Then, somewhere in the FAR FAR future, they MAY get updated to DCS standards.

So, if I've well understood, it will be in a first time:

- F-15C & Su-27SM for DCS World

And will be evolved up to

- DCS: F-15C and DCS: Su-27SM incrementally.

And then, long after, DCS: F/A-18C Hornet.

OK. Sounds good if I don't have to pay 2x full price per incremental upgrade. (Which should not be the case because it's stated that the price will be sweet).

Continue that way, ED :thumbup:. Always up to perfection (that sadly costs time and obviously money)

EDIT: => 159Th_Falcon, you said "...FC3 owners will get updated flight model for F15 and SU27 for free. Non FC3 owners will have the option to buy just either of the above, of course cheaper then FC3 would be."

Isn't there a licencing problem with Ubisoft or something like that? How Non FC3 users could pay for this module without having Lock-On installed if FC3 owners could have it for free?

(Hard to describe what I want to. My english might not be sufficient)

There could be interesting multiplayer issues with this. Would this me two distinct modules in the mission editor? One FC level one DCS level?

The AFM's sound just fine as starters for me at a small additional cost and very reasonable IMO.

The Su25 AFM is a joy to fly and having that level modeling on the F15 and Su27 as well can only be an improvement. When the full DCS level models come along later then great, a lot more avionics to learn as well.

Its early days and we can see a path that will take this sim into the next few years expanding its original scope to cover various time periods. It gives us options which again can only make it better in the long run and improve its long term viability.

Let me put this from other perspective:

 

 

Do you feel betrayed by AUDI because you bought an A4 last year and the have released a new version

this year that is almost the same, so you want them to replace your car for the new one for free?

 

What ED is really saying is:

1-We are deloping and AFM for this aircraft,and once ready we are selling it.

2-Later on we'll be deloping a packet of avionics(radar,radio,mfd,etc...),one ready we'll sell it.

 

It seem like something ver normal to me, nthing evil there.

 

Remember that you always have the option as a free costumer to buy something or not, please use it.

Software and cars are way too different products to be generalized this way. My point is much more similar to what we constantly witness, for example, in music industry.

Say, a band starts out playing a distinctive, revolutionary style. It records it first album and builds a small, but solid fan base. After recording a second album, some of its members and their managers get the idea that "if we change our distinctive style and sound to be more commercial, we will sell records to many more people". They do it, and after some years they sound exactly just like thousands of other bands, who keep playing just for the bucks.

DCS is the natural continuation of the concepts first pioneered by "Flanker", which evolved into imho the greatest sim ever, lock-on.

A software house, just like any other enterprise, has limited resources. They have to make choices as to what direction to take, decide how those resources would be better employed. What I'm seeing now, and I may be wrong, is that the development of modern, detailed combat sims (like BS and WH) is gradually being allocated less of those resources. I see that those resources go into projects which are alien to the original concepts on which the sim was based, like WW2 fighters; so I can't help but imagine that this is done to attract customers who had no interest in "modern battlefield simulations".

Of course, this is how it works today, the markets, economy etc. Of course, as a customer, I have the option not to buy what I'm not interested to, and this is just what I'm doing in this case, since as i said, I bought every DCS module bar the Mustang, and I won't buy the FW or other mods in which I have no interest.

I never said there is "evil" in this. What I'm saying, as a potential customer of future mods, and as a member of a free society, is that I disagree with the choices that have being made in regards to what to develop in DCS. Basically, my thought is "we got the two best combat sims ever made, in an arc of time of a couple of years. I was fretting to know what we 'd get next, and they released the Mustang. Now they 'll develop the FW and say that probably I'll have grey hair when they release the F-18". So my next assumption is, "if they weren't that much into WW2 stuff, we'll probably get hornets, falcons, flankers and fulcrums before we have grandsons". Ofc many ppl will disagree with me and they have their points. What can I say, I'm a fan of modern combat sims and got DCS for this reason, and if I want to do WW2 I'd be playing "Sturmovik" or the like.

As to about the F-15 and Su-27, there is probably not much clearness in general. It's not that clear that customers who bought FC3 will get the AFMs for free; in that case, great.

To get back to Audis, when you buy an A4, and they release an update for its ECU, the company contacts you and tells you to get your update at the nearest service point, without charge.

That said, ED pls keep doing quality over quantity. Give me a DCS F-18 soon and I'd gladly pay as much as two SFM modules combined

as long as the Entry/Data LUA Give the same wsType, reporting and Mission editor name, (and a fwe other things) they will be the same Aircraft in missions.

one will be in DCS/Mods/aircraft/FlamingCliffs/ the other DCS/Mods/aircraft/F-15C(or SU27C).

The name of the Folder doesnt matter, as long as the entry file has the correct folder names for textures/model assets. as long as teh mission editor name, plane ID, wsType (ie F_15C, SU_27) are the same, and the Cockpit and external mesh EDMs are the same. if FC3 gets a surprise update to AFM for those two AC, everything will be exactly the same.

so both users will have External and 6 DoF Pit EDMs, same Aircraft Data, they'd just be in different folders.

if FC3 doesnt get AFM, it's not an issue, as the /dcs/mods/aircraft/f-15c/ lua's would have calls for the AFM DLL.

Dont ask me how having both would mess things up, cuz i dunno. (another reason to just put the AFM into FC3, avoid people having dual modules fighting with each other).

Maybe I should take the FC3 F-15C and make a separate module folder to see what happens this weekend.

Pass on the mid-fidelity...I'll wait for the F18C unless another good 3rd party module comes along that peaks my interest. Guess I'll be spending my DCS $ on maybe another new system while I wait...by that time there will be a two more generations of graphics cards and the 2011 MB.

@whitehot I see clearly your point and I think you have made it more spot on now.

I agree with you in many points, I am like you,a modern battlefield guy who altough doesn't mind playing wwII planes every now and then, they are really not my thing.

But remember one thing, we are discussing something without even knowing what is really behind. I mean, for what we know ED could be in a great need of money because of the small market this simulators really have compared to what they need to be devolped.

I as a costumer of ED since Flanker 2.0, always try to see this in perpesctive, and try to focus how through the years, this company has made wonders in a constant evolution towards something better every time. And what is more important, I really appreciate how through DCS world ED gives you a live world with constants FREE updates even though you don't pay at all. That is enough for me to give them some credit. Who knows, maybe in one year or two you get to see that the news ED addons or his roadmap was not so bad and even like it now.

I just try to let them work in peace,something tells me that I'll like what I'll see when EDGE,AFMs for missiles and planes etc be ready.

....something tells me that I'll like what I'll see when EDGE,AFMs for missiles and planes etc be ready.

If we live that long ;) :lol:

I don't mind paying for medium fidelity stuff as long as it's 'on the way' towards developing high fidelity modules.

The F-15 and SU27 advanced flight models are a step in the right direction but I hope that work on modelling the cockpit systems and avionics continues.

If ED turn around after completing the flight models and say they're working on more medium fidelity aircraft instead of finishing the Eagle and Flanker off, I'm really not going to be happy.

We all want high fidelity modules. personally i think that there is a GOOD chance to see them us upgrade for FC3

Hangon, in Wags 3rd May update he says...

 

"Work will also accelerate on development of DCS: F-15C and DCS: Su-27. I hope to talk more about those next week."

 

So doesn't that mean the F-15C and Su-27 will be of similar fidelity to the A-10C or am I misunderstanding?

 

I'm more hanging out for the F/A-18C if you couldn't tell from my forum name/sig :music_whistling:

People all know there will be at least one DCS modern fighter some day . The question is not if but when , maybe in 2018 or later .:cry:

For me the perfect scenario should be:

If DCS is going to build HF planes they should come in pairs from different countries. Let's take the fighter for example.

If they do a F18 or F15 High Fidelity aircraft they should have a rival with the same High Fidelity craft, MIG-29 or SU-27.

For me is not fair fighting in MP with a HF F18 VS. a Mid Fidelity Su-27. The Su-27 only have to find me in the radar lock and shoot, wile the other HF F-18 have to really work and worry to mantling the aircraft in operation to attack the other person.

That's my 2 cents. :thumbup:

in the last proadcast Matt says that the F-15 will have more detailed radar

in the last proadcast Matt says that the F-15 will have more detailed radar

Where's this?

I hope the F-15C module costs not more than 15€.

What does the community expect from the 'mid level' modules?

I have noticed a lot of heated discussion on the topic of the newly announced 'mid level' modules. So much discussion which is moving so fast would make it quite a task to sift though, so I thought a dedicated topic would make sense.

So, I ask, what does everyone expect from these new modules?

Keep in mind -

No price has been stated

Each module will implement an advanced flight model (AFM) for the aircraft

An existing copy of Lock-On will not be required

Wags stated in the announcement;

"We also want to release these aircraft in such a manner to allow users that are not interested in Flaming Cliffs 3, or do not have a Lock On installation, to still have these aircraft in their DCS World stable of aircraft, but at a greatly reduced price. "

If they do a F18 or F15 High Fidelity aircraft they should have a rival with the same High Fidelity craft, MIG-29 or SU-27.

For me is not fair fighting in MP with a HF F18 VS. a Mid Fidelity Su-27. The Su-27 only have to find me in the radar lock and shoot, wile the other HF F-18 have to really work and worry to mantling the aircraft in operation to attack the other person.

 

That's my 2 cents. :thumbup:

In what way does the HF aircraft have to work really hard to find an enemy on radar, lock it up and shoot, there is no extra work here. All the work such as startup procedure etc. will take place before you get into any action. This complaint is poorly thought out and a common misconception.

I expect exactly what we have now in FC3 with a decent FM. Without doing something with the avionics and such, which is the next level, there is little else they can offer.

I haven't read any discussion about the new modules so far, so consider me "unbiased". :)

Personally, I can't wait for F/A-18C in A-10C depth, so if the new modules help ED make more money to fund Hornet-development, I'm all for it. :)

I've tried to fly the Toad but didn't feel at home in it. I'm more of a "one module at a time" player, delving into the intricacies of manual, crosswind Vikhr launches, hovering in the Huey or flying the Hog with half a wing missing (:music_whistling:) rather than switching between all kinds of aircraft.

FC3 is the only module I haven't bought yet and I don't think I'm going to get any of those new, "mid level" modules, but I think they may be the perfect fit for players that don't like to spend hours reading a manual. I hope they manage to broaden the customers base and get some more fellow simmers to throw cash towards ED. :)

In other words, I don't see any downside at all, let's just call it a triple-win-scenario (First win: Players who like those modules, second win: ED makes more cash, third win: I finally get the Hornet). :D

It's going to be $50, I'm sure.

I wish they put FC3 on sale for the Victory Day May 9th, but they didnt. :(

In the HF F-18 targets are pretty much automatically designated for you, all you have to do is step through them...no need to even move the designation cursor onto them.

For me is not fair fighting in MP with a HF F18 VS. a Mid Fidelity Su-27. The Su-27 only have to find me in the radar lock and shoot, wile the other HF F-18 have to really work and worry to mantling the aircraft in operation to attack the other person.

 

That's my 2 cents. :thumbup: