Viper's USPs?

Not a loaded question in any way, I am just interested in what the Viper's USPs are to make it an interesting buy when Hornet and Tomcat are already owned.

I want to part with my cash, but, through my ignorance, I just would like to know what makes the Viper different.

Thanks.

(When mention an abbreviation the first time, you should spell it out as not everybody automatically is familiar with its meaning. Here, I assume by USP you mean "Unique Selling Point"?)

For me, the main reason to want it is because it brings my own flight sim experience full circle, starting with the old Falcon 3.0 and 4.0, both having solidified my passion for the Viper both in sims and real life.

ED bringing it to DCS in all its glory is what I've been waiting on for many, many years. :)

It's a high quantity built US non-carrier-based single engined airplane without a canopy frame infront of you.

First Fly by wire combat aircraft capable of sustaining 9g turns. Canopy, Thunderbirds, pretty much an engine with wings... ETC...

It's simple, do you like dogfight?.... then you must have F16 in your virtual hangar DCS.

I hope to feel how agile and fast it is in flight..... :pilotfly: :thumbup:

This is a pretty good article from a pilots point of view on the planes. To me there is not much difference between the two other than the obvious stuff. I have just always loved the F-16 for its sleekness and power.

https://fightersweep.com/1494/hornet-vs-viper-part-one/

Can it out dogfight an F-15 in any situation?

Honestly, I think the Hornet has a lot more going for it considering its multipurpose radar utilizing TWS, Boresight, RWS, SEA, GMT and other elements that the F-16 doesnt have. IIRC though, the AESA radar is to be modelled, but Im usually wrong with these things since I dont often pay that much attention here. Is anti-shipping an F-16 role? No. But it does dogfight well where the Hornet would fail in. Otherwise its Boeing vs Lockheed and that alone is the biggest difference. If by some far off chance someone models an F-35 or F-22 (very unlikely) you'll get the added benefit of knowing how to use the avionics more or less.

This is a pretty good article from a pilots point of view on the planes. To me there is not much difference between the two other than the obvious stuff. I have just always loved the F-16 for its sleekness and power.

 

https://fightersweep.com/1494/hornet-vs-viper-part-one/

Yay, an article by Mover! Dude's pretty down to earth. Check out his youtube channel.

And because you can feel like Doug Masters again :)

There's certainly a lot of overlap: the viper and the hornet are both single seat multi-role jets of a very similar era. That said there are some cool things about the F-16 in comparison to the Hornet.

• Performance: the Viper is an absolute dogfighting monster: 9G capable and with a power-to-weight that is second to none. The viper has a higher roll rate and greater overall agility than the Hornet. If the Hornet is a Cadillac the viper is definitely a roadster: engine with wings.
  
• Ubiquity: it's used everywhere by very many nations, so there are loads of historical scenarios it fits in.
  
• Personal history: been a huge fan since BMS, have a lot of experience with it.
  
• SEAD: the plane has a big SEAD/DEAD focus, particularly the Block 50 with the Harm Targeting System: unique to the F-16.
  
• Avionics: I love the HOTAS for the F-16 and find it very intuitive, definitely prefer to the Hornet.
  
• Cockpit: love that no-rails bubble canopy.
  
• Air force: You get to pretend to be in the USAF and do USAF things as opposed to Navy things
  
• Looks: subjective, but it's one of my favourite looking jets.
  

For me it's an obvious buy because whilst I was really excited when I heard ED were going to make the Hornet, I did find myself thinking: yeah but the one I'd really like is the viper!

Say you are comparing the F16 and FA18:

If you were an airforce of 1 aircraft, and you already had either one, you probably wouldnt go out of your way to swap either of them for the other. They both exist IRL because two different airforces had sliiiightly different specs they wanted to fill. They were even both initially developed to fill the same development program, the FA18 starting life initially as the YF-17 ("Cobra"), developed alongside the F16 for the Lightweight Fighter Program. As things went, the airforce chose the F16 and the F17 saw life later on as the FA18 under another, Naval, project.

But in DCS we choose by different criteria. For me its just whether or not I want to learn another startup sequence :D

I'm sure everyone has there own reasons.

For me it was seeing them in Afghanistan (I believe they were both Belgium and American f16's as we went to a Belgium silent disco to celebrate the Belgium's leaving). I used to work nights on the flight line, and you would see them taxi past. Then full chat down the runway, big purple cones lighting up the whole place. Any tools or loose screws or bolts on the floor would shake and rattle away from you. Was hell of an experience. I feel exactly the same about the tornado for the same reason.

I think once both are out of early access they will be fairly similar in terms of capabilities, with the F16 being the more nimble and maneuverable of the two in a dogfight. And the hornet possibly being a bit better bomb truck. As it stands, the Viper will be behind the hornet capability wise in DCS for the foreseeable future just due to the fact the hornet has an extra 1.5 years of development time on its systems.

I find the logic on the Viper systems easier than the hornet's. It's a race horse, f-5 on steroids :)

Yay, an article by Mover! Dude's pretty down to earth. Check out his youtube channel.

oh I have, but I didn't notice it was Mover until after I posted the link.

oh I have, but I didn't notice it was Mover until after I posted the link.

I looked at the author the moment I saw "I’ve been lucky enough to fly both the Boeing F/A-18 Hornet and the Lockheed-Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon".. because how many of those can there really be? :) HAD to be Mover.

Can it out dogfight an F-15 in any situation?

 

Honestly, I think the Hornet has a lot more going for it considering its multipurpose radar utilizing TWS, Boresight, RWS, SEA, GMT and other elements that the F-16 doesnt have.

Why do you think that the F-16's radar doesn't feature things like RWS, TWS and so on?

I'm not a Viper specialist, but i remember reading F-16A was build for dogfight, but F-16C was modified to be more suited for multirole tasks hence loosing Air to Air performance in the process compared to the F-16A.

So i'm not sure it's such a beast compared to the F-18C in BFM.

Might be wrong though...

I'm not a Viper specialist, but i remember reading F-16A was build for dogfight, but F-16C was modified to be more suited for multirole tasks hence loosing Air to Air performance in the process compared to the F-16A.

So i'm not sure it's such a beast compared to the F-18C in BFM.

 

Might be wrong though...

You are correct in a basic sense, though the -C got a way heftier engine and better radar etc. So I don't think it really lost any performance, rather the opposite.

Read the article series linked on the first page. Mover does a great job of comparing the two aircraft.

Why do you think that the F-16's radar doesn't feature things like RWS, TWS and so on?

The 16C radar is as capable as the hornet really. I assume we are comparing the 68 (V9?) to the 73.

It’s an F-16, that should be all the reason you need.

Comparing it to other aircraft in a pros / cons DPS kind of way is pointless and rather misses the point of the sim. I love the Hornet, I love the F-14 and I love the Viggen, Harrier, Mirage and Mig-21 too. They all do things well and in some cases badly but I don’t compare them and I enjoy flying all of them. I don’t fly this sim to “win” I fly it to learn and get as close to the experience of flying that real aircraft as possible, as such the F-16 is a must buy.

It’s an F-16, that should be all the reason you need.

 

Comparing it to other aircraft in a pros / cons DPS kind of way is pointless and rather misses the point of the sim. I love the Hornet, I love the F-14 and I love the Viggen, Harrier, Mirage and Mig-21 too. They all do things well and in some cases badly but I don’t compare them and I enjoy flying all of them. I don’t fly this sim to “win” I fly it to learn and get as close to the experience of flying that real aircraft as possible, as such the F-16 is a must buy.

+1

Pretty much. Though some guys just want the latest greatest ride for aeroquake.

It’s an F-16, that should be all the reason you need.

 

Comparing it to other aircraft in a pros / cons DPS kind of way is pointless and rather misses the point of the sim. I love the Hornet, I love the F-14 and I love the Viggen, Harrier, Mirage and Mig-21 too. They all do things well and in some cases badly but I don’t compare them and I enjoy flying all of them. I don’t fly this sim to “win” I fly it to learn and get as close to the experience of flying that real aircraft as possible, as such the F-16 is a must buy.

Don't know if you are referring to my original question, but if so, I didn't ask for a pros/cons comparison of anything. I asked what the unique aspects of the Viper are to persuade me to buy it when owning other similar jets.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of what you said!

Don't know if you are referring to my original question, but if so, I didn't ask for a pros/cons comparison of anything. I asked what the unique aspects of the Viper are to persuade me to buy it when owning other similar jets.

 

I don't disagree with the sentiment of what you said!

I wasn’t directly replying to you, just more the thread in general. The F-16 is a unique and interesting aircraft and will fly and behave differently from everything else we have. I have a family connection to the F-16 as my brother flew it operationally and it’s always been one of mine and his favourite aircraft so I bought it the same day it became available. It requires a different flying and fighting style compared to the F-18. Just because they are both FBW jets does not make their design ethos similar. The Viper is about speed and G and the Hornet is about nose authority and low speed controllability. They are different beasts... therefore interesting.