KA-50 in Chechnya

Interesting read (not sure if this has been posted, since its from 2005) -- please see PDF file attached.

 

Note the converted KA-29 acting as spotter for the KA-50s. :)

MILTECH_9-2005_Ka-50_in_Chechnya.pdf

Thanks alot!:thumbup:

Thank you, downloaded for weekend perusal :thumbup:

Quite an interesting read, thanks for the upload!

The article doesn't mention any problems about Ka-50 being single seat. Have they just chosen not to talk about it or wasn't it really a problem. Choosing Ka-52 over 50 makes you think. Then again it would be nice to get DCS Ka-29 to see how it would change things. But otherwise not very surprising conclusions about Ka-50 :).

But the fact that they are targeting with a different helicopter is a condemnation of the single pilot concept in itself. (I am a fan of the Black Shark, but sending a 2nd helicopter and risking 2 machines rather than one, along with 2 aircrews rather than one pretty much tells everyone what their opinion of the single pilot workload really is... Kind of defeats the whole point in my mind..

Well, one of the final statements mentioned that "In early 2005, the Russian Defence Minister S. Ivanov issued a decision to restart the Ka-50 series production [...]"

 

What is known about this?

Nice, thank you! I'll save it for later when I have the time :)

Nice find.

But the fact that they are targeting with a different helicopter is a condemnation of the single pilot concept in itself. (I am a fan of the Black Shark, but sending a 2nd helicopter and risking 2 machines rather than one, along with 2 aircrews rather than one pretty much tells everyone what their opinion of the single pilot workload really is... Kind of defeats the whole point in my mind..

The Ka-50 was originally envisioned as an new concept in combat helicopter tactics, where a flight of single-seat Ka-50s would operate as a "wolf pack" to attack targets as coordinated and designated by a dedicated command and control group leader, like Soviet fighter-interceptors. Hence the datalink capability. This is the concept that was being tested in Chechnya. But the entire concept was largely abandoned after the USSR collapsed as there wasn't enough financing or interest in the Russian military to continue pursuing it, so the single-seat Ka-50 has lost its tactical purpose.

 

Well, one of the final statements mentioned that "In early 2005, the Russian Defence Minister S. Ivanov issued a decision to restart the Ka-50 series production [...]"

 

What is known about this?

Production was re-started to finish the remaining Ka-50 airframes that had been already started for the initial serial production batch, but were frozen due to lack of financing. This batch was finished and the production cycle switched to the Ka-52.
Edited January 3, 2013 by EvilBivol-1

Familiarization flights on 28-30 December were performed with an Mi-24 helicopter.

 

That seems strangely familiar. ;)

I caught that too Grimes :)

 

I noted the line where they said they were going to build a KA-50 training simulator. Only a nut does that.

That was very interesting indeed, thx for sharing!

Yeah very interesting thanks a lot.

The read gave me a new appreciation for BS2. It is nice to see the history that went into the making of the sim, like the familiarisation career mission. It makes me rethink how we use the BS in missions. I see we spend a lot of money on Vikhrs...

 

LEAD: "I see a fly on that wall, 4km out"

TWO: "MAGNUM!"

 

It will be interesting to try some mission scenarios set up with a simulated Kh-29 as leader, using mostly dumb rockets as weapons.

 

("rifle" or "magnum", I forget which one it is. Been so long.)

Edited January 11, 2013 by JG14_Smil

I agree. Makes the Ka-50 more "real" in my book, too.

 

Just wondering about the usefulness of the unguided rockets -- you cannot depress the rocket pods so you have to attack while flying towards the target. To me, this helo lends itself to attack from a hover using Vikhrs instead...

 

Shouldn't unguided rockets be used in "strafing runs" from the Su-25, rather than from a helo?

I agree. Makes the Ka-50 more "real" in my book, too.

 

Just wondering about the usefulness of the unguided rockets -- you cannot depress the rocket pods so you have to attack while flying towards the target. To me, this helo lends itself to attack from a hover using Vikhrs instead...

 

Shouldn't unguided rockets be used in "strafing runs" from the Su-25, rather than from a helo?

 

It only lends itself to hover attacks, if you let it ;) Of course this is an option, but it will leave you as a sitting duck if someone decides to take a shot at you. I found the tactic of first observing from a hover, then going for a strafing run with Vikhrs and Rockets works quite well, since Rockets are fired at a much smaller distance than Vikhrs are. So while I'm running in I'm always looking for targets in the Shkval, for example AAA or Sams or hard targets => Anything thats not destroyed by Rockets or presents a danger to my chopper. Once you come close you unleash Rocket Hell on them.

 

Strafing runs with unguided rockets are for certain not exclusive to Su-25s, there are enough videos of strafing Hinds out there on the web :)

It only lends itself to hover attacks, if you let it ;) Of course this is an option, but it will leave you as a sitting duck if someone decides to take a shot at you. I found the tactic of first observing from a hover, then going for a strafing run with Vikhrs and Rockets works quite well, since Rockets are fired at a much smaller distance than Vikhrs are. So while I'm running in I'm always looking for targets in the Shkval, for example AAA or Sams or hard targets => Anything thats not destroyed by Rockets or presents a danger to my chopper. Once you come close you unleash Rocket Hell on them.

 

Strafing runs with unguided rockets are for certain not exclusive to Su-25s, there are enough videos of strafing Hinds out there on the web :)

 

Points well made.

 

Guess I am still struggling with the workload of the single-seat Ka-50 on such strafing runs, finding it easier to shoot from cover.

("rifle" or "magnum", I forget which one it is. Been so long.)

 

With the group I fly with, we use "wire" since the vikhr is a beam-riding missile. Not sure if this is correct but it helps differentiate what's being fired.

Strafing runs with unguided rockets are for certain not exclusive to Su-25s, there are enough videos of strafing Hinds out there on the web :)

 

Pfff... Hinds...

 

I might be very immature, but I found the acronym SAMSHIT mentioned in the article highly amusing ("...the Ka-29 was to be upgraded with the SAMSHIT 24-hour...").

 

Nice read though! Makes you wish there were more missions out there with focus on rocketable targets instead of the "shoot-your-twelve-vihkrs-and-rtb-because-you-cant-do-anything else-with-your-armament".

Edited January 12, 2013 by roob

It's like SmallShit in the game. But I know I'm very immature. :D

Yup I spotted it too, it seems devs have some kind of humour :P

No doubt you learned gentlemen would be aware of this, but I've only just discovered that a large portion of Chechnya (Grozny inclusive) is actually contained in the DCS Caucasus map. Of course, there is no structure modelling, so it's all open space - but it is still Chechnya.

 

Chechnya occupies the majority of MGRS 38T NN, with Grozny effectively centred on MGRS 38T NN 79.

 

I'm the first to cry out for new terrain, but it would be grand if they could model this element of the map! Then I can start flying around with that KA-27 and playing at real KA-50 operations! ;)

I'm the first to cry out for new terrain, but it would be grand if they could model this element of the map! Then I can start flying around with that KA-27 and playing at real KA-50 operations! ;)

 

Great idea. I'd love to see the K-50 get a Chechnya campaign, just for the sake of historical realism.