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Building a player base for WW2


mblackham

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DCS WW2 is largely a WIP (no German voiceovers yet, no attack AC available etc.) and this, I feel, still limits its growth somewhat. Regardless, the existing aircraft modules are top notch and both the Mossie and the P-47 will definitely generate much interest, so I think we're getting there - slowly but surely.

 

The thing is, there're lots of WW2-themed flying games and/or survey sims out there, but they're all either arcadish or shallow, or both. So what do you do if you yearn for realism and fully modelled machines? Why, you board the DCS WW2 train, of course. That the train isn't yet up to speed is an inconvenience, true, but things are progressing regardless - just see my sig and 9L's comments about the upcoming DM.

 

TL/DR: Cups you say? Well mine is definitely half full even if yours isn't. Out ;)

 

i second that

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The thing is, there're lots of WW2-themed flying games and/or survey sims out there, but they're all either arcadish or shallow, or both. So what do you do if you yearn for realism and fully modelled machines? Why, you board the DCS WW2 train, of course. That the train isn't yet up to speed is an inconvenience, true, but things are progressing regardless - just see my sig and 9L's comments about the upcoming DM.

 

DCS currently is weak on the game and multiplayer aspects - if they just rushed to "complete" the WW2 aircraft set, they'd end up in your realistic but shallow bracket. Great finely modelled aircraft everyone wants to fly but it would get old after a few circles, and while DCS would corner its niche in the WW2 market it wouldn't take it by landslide.

 

That is why ED is working on the software in small pieces here and there - in parallel and at slow pace over the years. To complete a final workable vision in less time. At least the thing that they are not churning out WW2 assets by the boatload is solid evidence that their focus is something else than making the maximum amount of money the fastest way possible.

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The asset pack is an issue to be sure, but the real barriers to growth are...

 

* Spotting - Dot labels have really helped in MP, but it really is a game engine issue that needs to be addressed for VR and higher resolution monitors.

 

* Damage models - The update to the damage models cannot come soon enough. The current lack of depth and granularity really diminishes the experience.

 

In my opinion we won't see growth in the WWII and Korean era scenarios until these issues are addressed.

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Object spotting is a controversial topic and many a debate has raged on this board about it. Personally, I'd rather it was too hard than too easy; no training wheels and gaminess for this simmer please. Just my $0.002, though.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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Object spotting is a controversial topic and many a debate has raged on this board about it. Personally, I'd rather it was too hard than too easy; no training wheels and gaminess for this simmer, please. Just my $0.002, though.

 

The parts where this sim really shines in, will not deliver it's full potential if we can't find targets. Although many sorties IRL went down with many flight hours and no enemy contact at all, this is not the kind of occupation anybody would like to spend their free time with, in a multiplayer combat enviroument. Endless flying of spotting nothing is also not how the game is advertised.

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I agree but the problem is a bit knotty. The issues with spotting are

 

1. that we can zoom out too far; i.e. the FoVs around which we find most natural to fly are (in reference to the frame of a monitor) much too large.

 

This is an issue for any sim, however, it often negated by increasing the size of the LOD at distance. In DCS it is complicated by the fact that:

 

2. they cannot artificially increase the size of the LOD at distance to compensate as RCS is tied into LOD and ergo would bloat the RCS and wreck the RADAR modelling for the more modern systems

 

Using a version of the dot icon is fine, but for it to be invisible through cloud or airframe structure is gonna be a helluva bit of coding and frankly be a bit inelegant; it will take no account of lighting conditions, contrast, camouflage, reflectivity etc, to affect spotting range.

 

It's certainly needed for gameplay reasons but it's no easy fix.

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I have to agree that it's a bit much for new players to buy 1 or 2 aircraft, the map and the asset pack. Most will find this a too big step.

 

In my opinion they should ask money for the aircraft and make the maps and assets free or very cheap.

 

They could always ask money for every major 2 year update of DCS to counter the income loss

 

People dislike paid DLC as a whole

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Just my 2 cents worth:

 

We are trying really hard to build a player base for the WW2 multiplayer scene. Running events, running social media.

 

<snip>

 

Ok, I’ll ask again...

 

Where does one participate in this? I’ve not done any real MP in DCS, but have the asset pack and all the WWII planes.
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There's only one server. Burning Skies. See the MP forum section, or tournaments for special events.

9./JG27

 

"If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

 

"In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin

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There's only one server. Burning Skies. See the MP forum section, or tournaments for special events.
There is more than one server. Burning Skies is the big one, even for American players somehow. As Default said, there are events hosted on it some times, and the number of people can soar over 30.

But fyi, there are other MP WWII servers. Steel Balls would be my preference, because for the US it's more local, means better ping, but it's always empty. There is also some spotty servers like ACG WWII and Storm of War, which imo has the best missions, but it's more of a squadron, mission oriented server. I caught up with Phil Style in his Spitfire squadron at one point, loads of fun when flying with a group of folks, working together. It is not for people who want to quickly jump in, then out, though.

Also I saw a 104th WWII server a few times, only recently.


Edited by Magic Zach
Curses, autocorrect!

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Thanks for the replies. I'll give them a try. Are there Discord or TS channels associated for chat and help?

 

 

Storm of War (SoW) has TS and forums. Details here: http://stormofwar.org/phpBB3/

 

 

The main SoW server is offline for a month (back online around end of February 2019), but the various SoW-associated squads are still flying WWII based missions on ad hoc mission servers.

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@op

If it's something they only dip into occasionally, I don't see how they're relevant to building the WWII community. If it's their thing, that won't be the case. What DCS offers more than competitors is modern jets. They're the only show in town.

 

The majority of gamers are of a more casual bent, favored by the drop in/out MMO settings and easily learned aircraft of other sims, and possibly being interested in the specific theaters, lastly they are far less demanding on the pc specs.

 

The main thing DCS offers is the ultra hardcore experience, which by definition excludes 99% of the gaming community. Making things cheap or free won't change that, especially considering the limited selection of aircraft.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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What DCS offers more than competitors is modern jets. They're the only show in town.

 

Any aircraft in DCS is a part of the “show”. Frankly the warbirds have always had a more fulfilling experience than the F-5E, F/A-18C, or FC3 has ever given me, hence why I enjoy them much more. Especially if the plane might fight me. Not much is more satisfying than landing the Spitfire on a semi-flat grass field. The only thing better is doing that while listening to God Save the Queen.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Any aircraft in DCS is a part of the “show”. Frankly the warbirds have always had a more fulfilling experience than the F-5E, F/A-18C, or FC3 has ever given me, hence why I enjoy them much more. Especially if the plane might fight me. Not much is more satisfying than landing the Spitfire on a semi-flat grass field. The only thing better is doing that while listening to God Save the Queen.

 

 

For realism, God Save the King would be more accurate. :)

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@zach

Yeah, which bypasses my point. WWII is probably the most popular show in history of shows in the flight sim world, and at present it is offered in a half dozen other sims, several of which are prettier and less spec intensive than DCS. WWII is a 'tack on' for DCS, especially at this point. It offers a limited ultra hardcore experience which as I said is two strikes against it in general. People can get prettier, easier to fly planes and more of them elsewhere. The only 'jet games' however are the ultra casual Ace Combat, the not really a jet game Arma series, unless you start going to very old games.

 

WWII : crowded and highly competitive

Jets : only DCS

 

My original point was giving away expensive modules won't change the things working against DCS :

 

Lots of competition, high system reqs, and massive time investment reqs

 

It's going to remain a niche branch of a niche product in a niche genre.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

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WWII: crowded and highly competitive

 

1) Keywords for DCS: quality, accuracy, realism

2) Keywords for something else: gaminess, balance, simplicity

 

I choose 1) & am sure there'll be more and more folks who decide likewise when this thing gets up to speed.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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My guess is that ED thought that they could introduce the basics and then leave the population of aircraft to 3rd parties, whilst they focus on the game engine and jets.

Clearly that’s not worked, which is a damn shame as I really enjoy flying the warbirds in DCS and simply don’t feel “involved” in the alternative WW2 sims.

 

I even spent a couple of days building and testing a bomber escort mission over this Xmas, so the enthusiasm is there.


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I think a differential FM and DM (and engine sounds) would do it. The competitor that shall not be named with a Russian dictator in the name has great looking planes but the dogfighting is totally arcade because of the FM and DM. The other major competitor doesn't look as good as DCS IMHO. I really hope the new DM is good I would love for DCS to be successful with the WWII modules.

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+1.

In fact I'd go as far as to say it should be available to see and destroy on servers, just like how I can see the MiG-21 being flown on MP without having actually purchased it, but when it comes to having to place the units in singleplayer yourself, THAT is where you need to buy the pack to use it.

 

Agree with this.

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Another thing that actually REALLY grinds my nerves is that the WWII servers are completely one-sided. Burning Skies>ACG, Steel Balls, RAF, Inferno, and even SoW. These other servers get no attention. But Burning Skies gets all of it. But the ping is dirt from the US, particularly the west coast.

Meanwhile, Steel Balls offers the best ping for the US! But heck, nobody is on it. Why is nobody on it? Are other players in the US just putting up with garbage ping and rubber banding aircraft on BS?

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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My guess is that ED thought that they could introduce the basics and then leave the population of aircraft to 3rd parties, whilst they focus on the game engine and jets.

Clearly that’s not worked, which is a damn shame as I really enjoy flying the warbirds in DCS and simply don’t feel “involved” in the alternative WW2 sims.

 

Once you put it that way it's a little baffling. Wags has stated WW2 airframes sell very well compared to the effort it takes to create them - the money is there for the taking.

 

1) Keywords for DCS: quality, accuracy, realism

2) Keywords for something else: gaminess, balance, simplicity

 

I choose 1) & am sure there'll be more and more folks who decide likewise when this thing gets up to speed.

 

The catch is that DCS's approach and competitive gaming are by no means mutually exclusive as we've seen in the various events. There's some additional challenge in making the mix work (eg. realism vs balance, comms infrastructure, learning curves) but there's a chance to make a very deep and competitive game which would potentially be interesting to a lot of gamers nowadays.

SA-342 Ka-50 Mi-8 AJS-37 F-18 M2000C AV-8B-N/A Mig-15bis CA --- How to learn DCS

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