Easier To Learn Jets?

Folks,

Once again I want to thank everyone for their suggestions. All input is welcome and appreciated.

Just to clarify some points it was the TF-51D that I flew for training. The included tutorial missions were very helpful.

I will consider trying the sim's included Su-25T and other payware jet modules as my next options.

I have been enjoying the F-15, F-14 and F-18. Of these, F-15 is the most relaxing to fly - far less to know to get it off the ground. Visually its on par with the 14 and 18. Especially in VR which I fly exclusively.

Since I fly VR, F-15 became a lot more fun and immersive after offloading a number of commands to VoiceAttack. If you are unfamiliar Voiceattack is an easy to use and program program for converting words you speak yp actions. For example, "lower flaps".

You need something like this if in VR to use F-15 because as mentioned, the cockpit is not clickable. But I also use voice attack in F-14 (Jester, Loud and Clear..) and F/A-18.

But getting back to which plane - F-15 to me is casual and fun, and F-14/18 is when I want to learn systems in great detail. I like them all.

The F-86 is a transonic P-51 with a jet engine and a radar ranging gunsight. It has a few handling limitations due to a swept wing and early transonic design limitations, but should feel very familiar after flying the P-51D. The jet engine is actually easier to manage than the prop engine aside from the possibility of a stall/flameout requiring some time to do a restart.

The F-5E is a supersonic F-86 with two engines, a radar, and a RWR. Its handling is much more straight forward due to much more advanced aerodynamic design and it is much harder to stall the engines. The F-5E is also an F/A-18C without the MFDs/advanced navigation & weapons systems. I think the entire set: P-51D, F-86F, F-5E, and F/A-18C is a great combination showcasing the progress of US single-seat fighter technology.

My go-to suggestion for a first full fidelity jet module is the M-2000C. It is easy to get into, yet has that right amount of challenge to master. It also teaches discipline compared with the other jets that have Fox 3's.

I have been enjoying the F-15, F-14 and F-18. Of these, F-15 is the most relaxing to fly - far less to know to get it off the ground. Visually its on par with the 14 and 18. Especially in VR which I fly exclusively.

 

Since I fly VR, F-15 became a lot more fun and immersive after offloading a number of commands to VoiceAttack. If you are unfamiliar Voiceattack is an easy to use and program program for converting words you speak yp actions. For example, "lower flaps".

 

You need something like this if in VR to use F-15 because as mentioned, the cockpit is not clickable. But I also use voice attack in F-14 (Jester, Loud and Clear..) and F/A-18.

 

But getting back to which plane - F-15 to me is casual and fun, and F-14/18 is when I want to learn systems in great detail. I like them all.

If the F-15 doesn't have a clickable cockpit how do you operate the jet to get it airborne and to land? Pure joystick/throttle/pedal operation?

If the F-15 doesn't have a clickable cockpit how do you operate the jet to get it airborne and to land? Pure joystick/throttle/pedal operation?

??? With your keyboard? Lack of clicky isn't THAT big a deal :p The basic systems are still there more or less, it's just your interaction with them is greatly streamlined. There are a few dozen keyboard commands instead of hundreds of switches. End result is similar.

I see that the Flaming Cliffs 3 package might be interesting option for me. It provides a bunch of aircraft and flying these jets seem to be easier to do so for a rookie.

??? With your keyboard? Lack of clicky isn't THAT big a deal :p The basic systems are still there more or less, it's just your interaction with them is greatly streamlined. There are a few dozen keyboard commands instead of hundreds of switches. End result is similar.

Oh yes, lol, I keep forgetting about the keyboard.

I don't know...

I almost always fly clickable jets and the WW2 birds...

EVERY time I jusmp in an FC3 plane it makes me mad that I can't just simply click the switch/knob/button that I can clearly see and know what it does.

I think it's a LOT easier to run a clickable jet than have to remember which keys do what on the keyboard.

Su-25T,

 

 

slower,

more stable (keep it unarmed),

no flight computers (you actually learn how to fly, not how to command a computer)

FREE

already installed

 

 

enjoy

I have to partially disagree, somewhat ironically the free Su-25T has the most sophisticated autopilot in all of DCS.

I have to partially disagree, somewhat ironically the free Su-25T has the most sophisticated autopilot in all of DCS.

Agreed. The 25T actually has a lot of ''hidden'' capabilities you don't notice unless you really get into it. It's the most complicated of the 'simple' aircraft, as far as what it can do, although the radar/HUD modes on the A2A fighters are a whole thing on their own.

Yup. And frankly all of the switches go on the HOTAS. There's no need for Voice anything at all unless your HOTAS isn't a HOTAS ...or doesn't have enough switches on it.

The F-15 is ridiculously easy maybe because it's an FC3 plane without an advanced fm. Then again the Mig-29 is also FC3 and it is tricky to land. I read somewhere that the Su-25T has an advanced fm unlike the other FC3 planes (I might be wrong).

Actually, no DCS aircraft has a standard flight model any more and most of the FC3 planes, F15 included, have a professional model (PFM>AFM>SFM).

Source: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/505/

Anyhow, I’ve tried the F15 and the F18 modules and they are easier to control than a TF-51 IMHO. They both have fly by wire (FBW), so it’s not surprising.

I'm about finished learning the basics of operating the DCS P-51 and I want to try flying one of the more Modern jets. I was curious if any of them would be easier to learn and fly as the next step? By this I'm specifically looking at the F-86, F-15, and F-18.

 

Thanks.

F/A-18C Hornet Lot 20** :

1. 6DOF cockpit.

2. Multi-role aircraft.

3. Carrier and airfield ops.

4. Numerous weapons capabilities (aka opportunity to learn many different employment tactics).

5. JHMCS.

6. NVG.

7. Litening Pod (TGP).

8. Data-link functionality.

9. Tacan and ILS systems.

10. "Easy" aircraft to fly (due to FCS).

11. Future updates/additions/systems (A/G radar is a big one).

12. Near A10C attack capability with may more speed and maneuverability.

13. Progress is moving along more rapidly now in the Beta stage (compared to earlier stages).

14. Numerous, numerous videos on YouTube for tutorials, from a handful of very knowledgeable sources.

15. Many good missions and a few good campaigns available for free under the user files download on DCS website and DCS forum.

**I could keep going and going, but figured that would either be enough to give you excitement for it, or enough to make you run. There are more control inputs than you could ever possibly map to a HOTAS (I use a TM Warthog HOTAS), but you can map all of them but the DDI/EW and those type of systems, but can easily toggle them with the mouse (or bind keys to keyboard if that's your thing).

I have the FC3 pack, flew the F-15C twice but lost interest due to non 6DOF cockpit (VR user). A10C, love it and many systems to learn and master - but more steps and could be considered more complicated to accomplish that mastery compared to the Hornet. But that would be the second aircraft I'd recommend to you, after the F/A-18C. With those two airframes, I don't personally see a need for additional units (as you have an attack aircraft, along with a fighter that can also double as an attack aircraft (but much more agile and faster). I also have the F-14B, but lack of rudder pedals has limited my flight time with that as that airfame really needs rudder pedal inputs while flying. There ya go, a "two'fer one" post :music_whistling:

Good luck with you decision and the purchases that follow (because DCS is like Pringles..... once you pop, you can't stop).

Cheers,

Don

Can't beat the C101 as a trainer, among other things your instructor can hop into the back seat. Gotta pay for that one, and you won't get much if any use game-play wise once you're done with training. Even so, it seems to be gaining a lot of traction at the DCS Academy.

Likewise you'll get limited use out of F86, MIG15 and F5 unless you're really interested in early Cold War aviation

I personally find the SU25 irritating, I can't stand the thing, but the price is right, and it does have SEAD capability that can be put to use on some servers.

There are two free mods worth looking at. MB-339 is getting a lot of props from instructors, I have downloaded it but haven't tried it yet. Also check out the A4 mod, absolute blast to fly and I like it in VR a lot. Both have bugs, I've heard gripes about the clickable cockpit in the MB339, and the A4 has this annoying habit of blowing up from time to time. Although it's carrier-capable, that's been a real challenge for the developers, wait till you have a full fidelity module to start carrier training. But, net of everything, it's probably safe to say you get WAY more than you pay for with either one. (Don't forget, mods go in the saved games folder)

The F15 is probably the worst trainer I have in my portfolio. Believe me, you are going to have to unlearn some bad habits if you go that route at this point.

My suggestion would be to download the A4 for pounding the pattern, BFM maneuvers and visual bombing runs, and general tear-assing around. Once you're trained up, I'd look at a full fidelity module. Which one depends on maturity of the module when you're ready to buy, and where your interests lie (strike? air superiority? carrier ops?) and whether you want to do MP or campaigns.

If you're only going to buy one module, it'll be hard to beat the F18. F16 will likely have an edge if you're more interested in AA combat than carrier ops. You should probably also look at the F14, it's truly an aviator's aircraft, a very complete and polished module, and it's the dominant air superiority fighter in the game, by a wide margin. Given the seriousness with which you're approaching your training, you would likely be a truly frightening F14 pilot.

Watch for sales and pick up PG, FC3, NTTR, and combined arms when the price is right (in that order).

ETA: Just took the MB-339 out for a spin. Cool jet, I like the instrument layout better than the A4. Doesn't have an AOA indexer. Quicker and more fun to fly than the C101. Not as much fun as the A4, but nothing is that fun.

Clickable cockpit is working just fine for me, I don't know what people are griping about. The installer is a one-click operation. Also am pleased to report it goes cross country almost as well as the F18. Highly recommended.

F/A-18C HornetLot 20** :

 

 

[…]

If I were buying my first DCS module, I would consider the F18 because, like daarseth wrote, it can do a lot of things.

I would also consider the SU 33 for the same reason:

• it's a supersonic jet
  
• it has a professional flight model
  
• it's good in aerial combat
  
• it has a helmet mounted sight which is a rudimental equivalent of the JHMCS of the Hornet (basically those systems allow you to lock a target by just looking at it)
  
• it can attack the ground with rockets, bombs and bullets
  
• it can be refuelled aerially
  
• it can operate from carriers
  

It's also way cheaper than the Hornet, but its systems are simplified, it lacks a clickable cockpit and it hasn't got specific weapons for SEAD (which consists of attacking anti-aircraft assets in the ground). It also probably lacks other features I don't know.

I have the FC3pack, flew the F-15C twice but lost interest due to non 6DOF cockpit(VR user).

I don't know what happens n VR, but in non-VR it has a 6DOF cockpit, like advertised here:https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/f-15c_dcs_world/.

I'm about finished learning the basics of operating the DCS P-51 and I want to try flying one of the more Modern jets. I was curious if any of them would be easier to learn and fly as the next step? By this I'm specifically looking at the F-86, F-15, and F-18.

 

Thanks.

Jets don't have reaction torque or P-factor, and they all have tricycle landing gear, so yes, they're easier to fly.

If you want to try out some fantastic flight models, get Flaming Cliffs 3--get the whole thing, which includes the F-15C, Su-27 and -33, and MiG-29. The flight models kick ass and are very convincing. It also has the A-10A and an earlier, mass-produced version of the SU-25.

On the other hand, FC3 modules don't have clickable cockpits, so if you liked that about the TF-51, then FC3 modules won't have that.

If you end up getting the F/A-18C, then it's a *major* handful to learn because of its huge variety of complex systems. Nothing at all like a WW2 fighter, it has a manual with more pages than a Shanghai phone book and tons of little details that you have to sort out before firing a weapon at something.

If that's what you dig, go for it, but to fly great-performing fighters, get FC3... or just get 'em both :)

AD

Thanks to everyone for such diverse and insightful ideas, it gives me much to think about. I did some further research and now I'm wondering if the F-86 Sabre might be a viable candidate for the "next step". Has anyone flown the F-86 module? It seems to be a step up from the WW2 airplanes and a step down from the fancy avionics & weapons of a more modern jet. The Chuck's Guide for the F-86 is also only 90 pages which is "small" considering the 333 pages of the F-18.

I don't know what happens n VR, but in non-VR it has a 6DOF cockpit, like advertised here:https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/f-15c_dcs_world/.

Couldn't click on anything within the cockpit. Not sure I used the correct terminology or if the FC3 pack came with a different version/model of the F-15C, but it was a loss of interest for me personally as interacting with all the switches/buttons/functions within the cockpit is an immersive and important part of it for me. Even though I don't use the motion controllers with my VR, I use a trackpad and have it strapped to my leg (like a knee board) so it's quick and easy to access anything possible within the airframe (combined with the key binds on my Warthog HOTAS - as close as you can get to being in the cockpit without purchasing DDI/MFCD/AMPCD's or being in one for real.

Cheers,

Don

Couldn't click on anything within the cockpit. Not sure I used the correct terminology...

6DOF cockpit

6DOF cockpit

Yeah, I have read that each time the link was shared so far. Maybe it’s because I flew the F15 very early on and then never looked back after the A10C. Then the F18, briefly the F14. I simply don’t recall being able to toggle things inside the aircraft without using key binds in the F15C, and was all I really intended to highlight.

Nothing else, nothing new. Thanks for link to the definition of a term. Google works great for that too.

Cheers,

Don

Can't beat the C101 as a trainer

Gentlemen prefer L-39ZAs.

Gentlemen prefer L-39ZAs.

You take that back! :D

Never, Sir. The choice of weapons is yours. :D

Thanks to everyone for such diverse and insightful ideas, it gives me much to think about. I did some further research and now I'm wondering if the F-86 Sabre might be a viable candidate for the "next step". Has anyone flown the F-86 module? It seems to be a step up from the WW2 airplanes and a step down from the fancy avionics & weapons of a more modern jet. The Chuck's Guide for the F-86 is also only 90 pages which is "small" considering the 333 pages of the F-18.

The F-86 is basically a slightly more advanced P-51 that's also easier to fly due to lacking a piston engine. You'll still find more flight limitations than a modern fighter, but you won't need to give it as much attention as the P-51. It's also easier to master than a modern fighter due to its simplicity, but remember that you don't have a master a module.

Getting in the air and firing missiles in the F-18 isn't much more complex than flying the F-86. Mastering the F-18 will take much longer, but the basics are simple. I also feel like the F-18 is a better fit for DCS. There are more AI assets that the F-18 is likely to face in combat than the F-86. The F-86 also primarily relies on guns and close in dogfighting, which is where you run into some issues with AI durability (though this is not as bad as it once was) and AI flight models (the MiG-15 is very overtuned as an F-86 opponent, but this can be tweaked by giving MiG's you fight fuel tanks and preventing them from jettisoning).

So in short the F-86 is a fine module. Learning how to fight in it is slightly easier than the F-18. Mastering its systems is much easier than a modern jet because there is less. The F-86 has less matching content in DCS than the F-18, but still enough to make it fun to use.