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How complete is the Hornet module


sackman

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I wouldn't be discouraged by some of the negative posters. The Hornet module is awesome and very well done. They have made good progress and have told us they are currently working on some more complex systems so any perceived slowdown in feature updates is completely explainable. The opinion that their priorities are elsewhere is also not factual. ED has explained that they are now using a modular approach to development. So teams working on systems for the Viper have already completed their Hornet responsibilities.

 

If your considering it get the Hornet and enjoy it! It's pretty awesome and only going to get better when we get the upcoming ED Full Fidelity Carrier!

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I currently have 93 hours logged in the Hornet, and I payed 60 bucks for. Thats 64 cents per hour of great entertainment so far, and Im not planning on stopping yet ;).

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I agree with AvroLanc in one thing, the news about the hornet are not reassuring as they give the impression that the man in the loop coding for Walleyes and slam/slam-er, that are datalink related, are a priority over things like TGP and TWS which are esential to the hornet.

 

I dont think they stopped working on them, but I would love some news about that, even something like: "based on problems we are encountaring we think TWS will take another 5 months". That would be fine since at least does not give the impression that the team that sould work on the TWS is working in the Walleye coding instead due to a priority shift; which by my understanding could be possible in this case; I know how modular coding works so please dont bring up the 3d specialist example.

 

So long story short, I'm not impatient and i can live with the hornet as is for quite some time, but I would love some news if the priority pipeline have shifted and weapons are first over system if that is the case (which could be fine if there is a good rationale behind).

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The latest weekend news only confuses even more.

 

ED mentions Walleye II and Harpoon being a priority....but why exactly are these now priorities? What about a TGP you can actually aim?

What about improvements to JDAM?

Improvements to NAV System? We haven’t even got markpoints.

Finish HARM modes?

The data cartridge functions previewed 8 months ago?

Lots of missing radar HOTAS commands?

TWS?

 

All of these are more important than Walleye. If work continues on these unmentioned systems, then why not mention it. Why not communicate on items that the community actually feels are a priority?

My fear now is that ED will continue to work its way down the published weapons list, half implement all of them, then call Hornet development a day. I appreciate the weekend news, but it does little to actually reassure. Sorry.

 

My feelings exactly, woulld like to see more completed systems before introducing new ones.

 

 

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My feelings exactly, woulld like to see more completed systems before introducing new ones.
I certainly agree. The good news is there aren't many weapons left to implement, so hopefully at the latest by then when the Walleye, SLAM, etc are done they will go back and start completing stuff such as the AA radar, targeting pod, JDAM, and the plethora of other half completed things.
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Yeah it would nice to have something like 1 new, then 1 updated system, then 1 new etc as an update cycle. But I suspect the issue is also that, while its easy to say, you can't predict how fast any given thing will be developed. I suspect a big part of it is that the "first pass" at the system may in fact just get the easy stuff done first, but then the more detailed bits of the system consume way more time, and that last 10% takes the most time.

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I wouldn't be discouraged by some of the negative posters. The Hornet module is awesome and very well done. They have made good progress and have told us they are currently working on some more complex systems so any perceived slowdown in feature updates is completely explainable. The opinion that their priorities are elsewhere is also not factual. ED has explained that they are now using a modular approach to development. So teams working on systems for the Viper have already completed their Hornet responsibilities.

 

If your considering it get the Hornet and enjoy it! It's pretty awesome and only going to get better when we get the upcoming ED Full Fidelity Carrier!

 

At the midpoint of this are guys like me, and I'm sure many other people in this thread. Is the hornet done? Lol not by a long shot. Tons of stuff is missing, or partly implemented. I'm having a good LOL at the guy who said 70% done. But at the same time its the jet that fly the most and I do have fun with it, bugs and incomplete systems and all that.

 

As for the full-fi carrier, I'm not holding my breath. Its been teased and hyped for a long while, but I'm thinking its still a ways off and I'd rather they take a cue from HB on that and release it "mostly complete". I mean I want to have cows wandering all over the flight deck as much as the next guy, but I want them to say mooo too...

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I certainly agree. The good news is there aren't many weapons left to implement, so hopefully at the latest by then when the Walleye, SLAM, etc are done they will go back and start completing stuff such as the AA radar, targeting pod, JDAM, and the plethora of other half completed things.

 

The problem here is that by the time this happens the Viper will be released into early access. My concern is that if these complex systems are not completed for the Hornet by then they will fall even lower on the priority list than they already appear to be.

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I understand that ED focus on Viper since its possible income of money.

 

It would be better to pay some annual fee to play in DCS like 30-50 USD per year or 5-10 USD per module annually. This would give developers some money so they can develope stuff faster and we would have much better game.

 

Everybody should understand that ED will develope Hornet for couple of years since we bought it but ED will no recieve money for the work from players that already bought the product.

 

And i dont like guys saying that carrier module should be free for hornet module owners. Why would they do it then? They need to make money. It should be very reasonably priced like 50-100 usd so its worthwhile.

 

I dont mind paying for good stuff ;)

 

 

 

 

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It really isn't that hard of a puzzle to figure out what is going on atm.. They don't have dedicated Hornet, Viper or Carried module coders on their payroll. For a company like ED, it would be insane business wise if they did. I bet their coders are pushing hard on Viper to meet the promised early autumn release and there just isn't enough resources to do so for Hornet. Which module do you think is bringing more cash in at the moment? This is the question I would ask, if I were the one investing money on ED or any other company.

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I understand that ED focus on Viper since its possible income of money.

 

It would be better to pay some annual fee to play in DCS like 30-50 USD per year or 5-10 USD per module annually. This would give developers some money so they can develope stuff faster and we would have much better game.

 

Everybody should understand that ED will develope Hornet for couple of years since we bought it but ED will no recieve money for the work from players that already bought the product.

 

And i dont like guys saying that carrier module should be free for hornet module owners. Why would they do it then? They need to make money. It should be very reasonably priced like 50-100 usd so its worthwhile.

 

I dont mind paying for good stuff ;)

 

100% this! They need to stop this freebie DCS World nonsense right now or at least have a plan for DSC 3.0 or whatever to "start over". Go crowd funded, monthly fee or annual fee based business model or this game will NEVER have a chance to grow to something it deserves.

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I really would love to see when they actually make their money. (Yes ED I know you won't tell me)

 

I would say the main market segments are

 

1. Die hard grognards will buy everything as soon as its available, don't care if its garbage or not, they are "supporting the developer"

2. Intermediate guys that stick around play a few modules, and mainly buy based on their interest and precieved module quality.

3. Casual guys that play the free game, and buy in on a module or maybe two and then either move to category 2 or just call it a day and don't play anymore.

 

And I'm sure there is more detail in between those categories. But really I think the bulk of their market is cat3 or maybe cat2. Cat 1 is well represented on the forums, but I don't think its the overwhelming majority of the user base.

 

For any given product it will have 3 phases of sales

 

1. Initial sale (EA pre-sale) and the first few months at full price

2. Continuing sales, as it gets cheaper and discounted

3. Legacy sales as it gets to be too cheap not to buy

 

I think in terms of dollars made for ED, its a slide from 1 to 2 to 3 with the bulk of the money made in phase 1 and 2. So I do think people that are worried about features and implementation might be right to worry, since the dollars won't be there on the back end for developing those "hard" features. I think the F18 is gonna go from Cat1 to Cat2 after the viper is released.

 

The other issue you have for modules, is that once go cat3 you still have to spend some developer time supporting them or updating them. Which will become an increasing problem as you get more and more modules. At a guess this is what 3rd party guys have more issues with than ED.

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The problem here is that by the time this happens the Viper will be released into early access. My concern is that if these complex systems are not completed for the Hornet by then they will fall even lower on the priority list than they already appear to be.

 

I strongly suspect that a significant portion of the ‘Hornet team’ is being put to work on the Viper at the moment. Hornet work hasn’t stopped, so ED feel justified by saying the Viper hasn’t compromised the Hornet. There’s still a skeleton crew with spare time to do some weapon work, namely Walleye and Harpoon, but the real work involving NAV systems, radar, guidance, and all the complex stuff needs to be committed to Viper for their EA release date. It’s been said time and time again that the 2 modules will share technology, there are NOT going to be 2 independent teams doing their own thing. I’ve never brought that, and it’s pretty naive to believe it.

 

I hope and suspect that once the F-16 has been released in some kind of EA state and has been supported for a few early weeks, the Hornet team will regain some attention.

 

The simple truth is that these projects are massive, especially the way we now expect them to model every detail and system. Quite rightly. Simply they are too CHEAP. The 80 dollar commitment you’ve made isn’t enough for the devs to sustain LONG term support and development.

 

Maybe the solution lies in a two phase payment. 80 dollars for a phase 1, EA release with stated minimum capabilities, the initial payment being a bit of a gamble as it is now. A second 80 dollar module expansion made when advanced systems are finished. And I mean finished and released. Give ED some incentive to actually commit to finishing.

 

I know for myself that a fully fleshed out 4th gen fighter with all systems and capabilities modelled as well as they can be, is worth a lot more than 80 odd dollars me. I’d pay much more for a guaranteed completed quality product. I recognise how much work it involves. I’ve spent hundreds, if not thousands, on hardware and simulator accessories, the modules themselves are the weak link.

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Just to make it clear for everynoe reading this, the Hornet is an awesome module and in its current state is a huge ton of fun to fly. It is the module I fly the most by far, even more so since we received the TGP which is totally functional for A2G (It just lack some good to have features).

 

So if you are thinking on buying the module, dont doubt it, it is a must for me.

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I strongly suspect that a significant portion of the ‘Hornet team’ is being put to work on the Viper at the moment. Hornet work hasn’t stopped, so ED feel justified by saying the Viper hasn’t compromised the Hornet. There’s still a skeleton crew with spare time to do some weapon work, namely Walleye and Harpoon, but the real work involving NAV systems, radar, guidance, and all the complex stuff needs to be committed to Viper for their EA release date. It’s been said time and time again that the 2 modules will share technology, there are NOT going to be 2 independent teams doing their own thing. I’ve never brought that, and it’s pretty naive to believe it.

 

I hope and suspect that once the F-16 has been released in some kind of EA state and has been supported for a few early weeks, the Hornet team will regain some attention.

 

The simple truth is that these projects are massive, especially the way we now expect them to model every detail and system. Quite rightly. Simply they are too CHEAP. The 80 dollar commitment you’ve made isn’t enough for the devs to sustain LONG term support and development.

 

Maybe the solution lies in a two phase payment. 80 dollars for a phase 1, EA release with stated minimum capabilities, the initial payment being a bit of a gamble as it is now. A second 80 dollar module expansion made when advanced systems are finished. And I mean finished and released. Give ED some incentive to actually commit to finishing.

 

I know for myself that a fully fleshed out 4th gen fighter with all systems and capabilities modelled as well as they can be, is worth a lot more than 80 odd dollars me. I’d pay much more for a guaranteed completed quality product. I recognise how much work it involves. I’ve spent hundreds, if not thousands, on hardware and simulator accessories, the modules themselves are the weak link.

 

I too believe that ED should be asking more for each module and map. I have been enjoying the fruits of ED’s hard work for over a decade now and I would definitely pay the premium if they charged it. No question about that. With the Hornet being this far from completion and the Viper being so close to release, what we’re facing now is the potential for the parallel development of two highly complex 4th gen fighters. Ambitious to say the least and once the Viper is turned out, no one can really say which aircraft will take priority. As you mentioned before though, only time will tell.

 

All we can do now is hope that we receive the ability to slave the Litening pod to a designated point before the Viper is released. Because after that all bets are off.

 

The Hornet is a great module by the way. I have had hundreds of hours of fun flying it. If you’re thinking about buying it, do it. It’s worth much more than what you’ll pay for it! However it’s road to completion appears to be a long one... and getting longer by the week.


Edited by bigalsunit
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Just to make it clear for everynoe reading this, the Hornet is an awesome module and in its current state is a huge ton of fun to fly. It is the module I fly the most by far, even more so since we received the TGP which is totally functional for A2G (It just lack some good to have features).

 

So if you are thinking on buying the module, dont doubt it, it is a must for me.

 

Agree with this 100%. The Hornet is an awesome module, a game changing addition to DCS that’s kept me hooked since release. It’s only because it’s so good, that we’re upset that it’s not reaching its full potential as fast as we’d like. (And some are scared that it never will totally).

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I strongly suspect that a significant portion of the ‘Hornet team’ is being put to work on the Viper at the moment. Hornet work hasn’t stopped, so ED feel justified by saying the Viper hasn’t compromised the Hornet. There’s still a skeleton crew with spare time to do some weapon work, namely Walleye and Harpoon

 

From Fighter Podcast.... when a part of comunity only centred on a little portion of info.....

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4020538&postcount=1538

 

And no, ED has not still a "skeleton" crew on the Hornet.


Edited by Silver_Dragon
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And no, ED has not still a "skeleton" crew on the Hornet.

 

Ed develops a walleye missile that has been replaced IRL by the agm 65 that we already have.

Why this priority?

 

I don’t know if it's skeleton crew but it's probably a very small team.

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Ed develops a walleye missile that has been replaced IRL by the agm 65 that we already have.

Why this priority?

 

It's a "man in the loop" weapon and adds gameplay, a lot of other weapons are in game or in progress i.e. SLAM-ER

 

A short list of F/A-18C weapons/decoys still to add:

 

Weapons:

• AGM-45A/B Shrike

• AGM-84E SLAM

• AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER

• Walleye I ER/DL

• Walleye II ER/DL

• GBU-24B/B Paveway III

• Mk-40 Destructor Sea Mine

• Mk-63 Quickstrike Sea Mine

• Mk-77 Fire Bomb

 

Decoys:

• ADM-141 TALD

• GEN-X

 

Full List : https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3285514&postcount=13

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Ed develops a walleye missile that has been replaced IRL by the agm 65 that we already have.

Why this priority?

 

I don’t know if it's skeleton crew but it's probably a very small team.

 

It's a "man in the loop" weapon and adds gameplay, a lot of other weapons are in game or in progress i.e. SLAM-ER

 

A short list of F/A-18C weapons/decoys still to add:

 

Weapons:

• AGM-45A/B Shrike

• AGM-84E SLAM

• AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER

• Walleye I ER/DL

• Walleye II ER/DL

• GBU-24B/B Paveway III

• Mk-40 Destructor Sea Mine

• Mk-63 Quickstrike Sea Mine

• Mk-77 Fire Bomb

 

Decoys:

• ADM-141 TALD

• GEN-X

 

Full List : https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3285514&postcount=13

 

Look, for me it's not about a particular weapon not being worthy or interesting. I'm excited about Walleye and it's MITL functions too. It will of course lack functions on initial release.

 

It's just a little confusing as to why a 'large part of the team are now dedicated to it', but only a few weeks ago a TGP was introduced that lacks large areas of functionality that are nearly essential to it's use. Why can't this get finished in the next few OB updates after initial introduction? This is just one example. JDAM is another.

 

The roadmap and workflow seems to change every month, and it's their product and that's fine I guess. But it's a bit baffling.

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Why can't this get finished in the next few OB updates after initial introduction? This is just one example. JDAM is another.

 

The roadmap and workflow seems to change every month, and it's their product and that's fine I guess. But it's a bit baffling.

 

Because at this point they are creating frameworks and basic layers that all later modules and components will benefit from. We of course don't know the exact programming commonalities between features and modules, but they are there - I am pretty 100% sure, that we will see TWS arrive for both the F-18 and F-16 at once, as well as other stuff.

 

That's why, IMHO, we are *profiting* from the F-16 EA, since it will boost both F-18 and F-16 at the same time, even if we don't see that much for the F-18 *right now*.

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Ed develops a walleye missile that has been replaced IRL by the agm 65 that we already have.

Why this priority?

 

I don’t know if it's skeleton crew but it's probably a very small team.

 

"Priority".... fom 2 week ago...

 

F/A-18C:

Next weapon coming has the AGM-62 Walleye and on paralel work on TWS radar, air to ground mode radar, more modes for HARM and GPS weapons JDAM and JSOW

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