Any concern over Harrier development?

Wouldn't like to guess. Looking at the Discord and comparing to these forums and facebook it seems they prefer communicating there and not here. The recent update to LSS in store was communicated there. Heaven knows why a brand new Discord is superior to something formal for things so important, but they've obviously made a conscious choice.

Whatever happened to DECOY anyways? I've not seen him around for a while and he used to be really active

Which "bargain" was this? It was my understanding that we all willingly bought in to a beta early-release. I don't recall there being any timescale given for RAZBAM to complete (insert favourite part of aircraft here) either.

 

 

(@FSKRipper Spot on, mate!)

The bargain is to deliver a feature complete, working product. Until the module is in early access, the agreement is not fulfilled. That concerns every early access product on the market.

Point is, Razbam is not giving you features "for free", as @FSKRipper claims, they work on the credit given them by clients who bought early access product. Simple as that.

Point is, Razbam is not giving you features "for free", as @FSKRipper claims, they work on the credit given them by clients who bought early access product. Simple as that.

Must be a misunderstanding. I called the PBR cockpit (which was not part of the EA sale) a feature which Razbam added without big notice while everybody is applauding for the Ka50 cockpit update, which is also free. Other stuff (Igla, MWS) will cost money.

Every developer does this. ED with the Mi-24 and the F-16 while the Hornet is EA, Heatblur did it with the F-14 while the Viggen was unfinished and EA, Magnitude with the Eagle while the Mig-21 was (and is) still not bug free.

As yet, on the Hornet is being constantly worked.

Also on the Viggen. Bugs get fixed fast.

The Viggen has a more complete and bug-free state then the Mirage.

Its a shame to compare the Viggen with the M2K or, lol, the Harrier.

Mig21 same.

If they release a new module while the old one is feature complete and nearly bug free, while it is also being worked on, thats fine.

But the M2K is far away from being bug-free and the Harrier is a joke.

So the release of the Mig19 was a punch in the face for every customer who paid for the Harrier and M2K.

As yet, on the Hornet is being constantly worked.

Also on the Viggen. Bugs get fixed fast.

The Viggen has a more complete and bug-free state then the Mirage.

Its a shame to compare the Viggen with the M2K or, lol, the Harrier.

Mig21 same.

 

If they release a new module while the old one is feature complete and nearly bug free, while it is also being worked on, thats fine.

But the M2K is far away from being bug-free and the Harrier is a joke.

So the release of the Mig19 was a punch in the face for every customer who paid for the Harrier and M2K.

Just an experience from my side: From my point also very subjective but I had Viggen bugs which took more than a year to fix. Campaign? Still waiting. Training missions for all weapons? No way.

Mig21: Ask some people there about the ASP or the FM. But beware of getting tared and feathered.

Hornet: small step progress (which is fine for me) but no big updates (TGP, TWS, AG radar, FM) so far. More complex systems like the fire bomb or towed decoys will take years until final completion since damage for ground units and ECM for DCS has to be recreated from the scratch. Are you aware that it could easily take 2-3 more years until this module is complete? With only 2 points missing progress will be unbelievable slow from the outside world.

If you feel (aside from the bugs) that the Harrier with all his features (only JDAM missing completely) is a joke I can't help you but encourage you to stop playing, don't buy any module from Razbam in the future but raging through the subforum won't do anything good for you, the devs or the module.

Bugs on Viggen and Mig21 are minor (but of course, they should be also fixed). No game breakings bugs there.

Over all, all Razbam systems are very gameish, and far away from real behavor...

Bugs in the Harrier are major, many game breaking bugs.

Developement in the Hornet may not be the fastesr, but it is consistent.

At least, no lies are told there.

Stopping development, adding new bugs, not fixing old bugs and releasing a complete other module in the meantime is just not ok and shows what Razbam thinks about their paying customers. They are just not deluvering what they already got paid for.

If for you the Viggen and the Mig21 are bugwise and systemwise on the same level as the Harrier, and if development of the Hornet on the same level, then sorry, there is nothing more we could discuss about.

On one thing you can be sure: Razbam will never ever see anymore cent from me.

But if they are so perfect, and if I'm so alone with my feeling, why do they not offering a refund for unsatisfied Harrier purchaser?

Bugs on Viggen and Mig21 are minor (but of course, they should be also fixed). No game breakings bugs there.

I don't know about the Viggen, but the MiG-21 modules is still plagued with core issues from the start. They are not game breaking indeed but certainly not minor (ASP, RWR, ECM). There also was a scandal with the canopy that lasted for months. Hopefully, the mood is way better today and we can expect improvements.

At least, the Mig21 and the Viggen are modules that I can use on a mission and have (yet) not recognized any or serious bugs.

You can't say that about the Harrier, there you are going from one bug to another or the next missing system / feature / functionality.

Beside so funny things that the Tpod still lases and point tracks while flying inverted. If it lases at all...

All modules have bugs and all devs could improve therselfs, but the Harrier is just one big bugged, missing features and bad coded aircraft. There is zero to none work on it, if there is done something, then it is cosmetical or completely unnecessary and there is none communication from the devs.

Ok here we go again…

Over all, all Razbam systems are very gameish, and far away from real behavor

Subjective - won't comment on this point

Bugs in the Harrier are major, many game breaking bugs

I don't encountered CTD's, nor completely useless systems or not working weapons so there is no game breaker at all until you bring evidence. Game Breaker is not the same as fun breaker…

Developement in the Hornet may not be the fastesr, but it is consistent

Let us talk about it when the Hornet is in EA for 2 years, ok? I think you will see what I mean.

Stopping development, adding new bugs, not fixing old bugs and releasing a complete other module in the meantime is just not ok and shows what Razbam thinks about their paying customers.

This one is simply a lie as it where shown to you by the changelog that development didn't stopped. Adding bugs is part of the game which happens a lot, even in the F-14 (Jester, Power reduction of engines…) I also showed you that every other developer is working on other projects in parallel. This could become an issue, thats correct from your side.

If for you the Viggen and the Mig21 are bugwise and systemwise on the same level as the Harrier...

You are right, the 21 is more finished Overall but like Bogey Jammer said this is another level because development really stopped. AFAIK there will be no further change of the FM or the ASP so we have to settle with it. This is something to be alerted of. Some People could call it gameish but that would be… subjective.

The Viggen is also nearly complete but you should take the time and Count the missing Features of the module from the store page :thumbup:.

Regarding the Hornet... Take a look at the to do list… On the Harrier page the JDAM is missing, I won't count up the other list. Let's see what is missing in June 2020, everything else would be guesswork.

But if they are so perfect, and if I'm so alone with my feeling, why do they not offering a refund for unsatisfied Harrier purchaser?

Because of the EULA with you agreed to during your purchase. If they start with you, who will be next? Maybe the people who only bought the Huey to play with their friends?

Im not interested in defending Razbam, I only try to understand why you guys Focus all your rage on one dev where nearly all do the same stuff in minor deviations. Maybe most of you didn't get it yet but I think the full price module release of the new FW180-A8 vs the existing D9 shows where the path is going.

Maybe you start to count the different Viper variants...

You are defending Razbam, but you have not yet recognized that their and your behavor is long time harmful to DCS and the whole enviroment.

You are right, and I often say that, all other devs are also no saints, but Razbam is way over their top with their behavor and way under the average with their modules.

And raging has multiple causes:

I paid and have not received what I paid for.

Bugs are not fixed.

No comments about bugs, fixing or progress.

The Mirage and also the Harrier are outstanding aircrafts, and the way Razbam brought them to DCS just hurts.

[quote=viper2097;3933614

And raging has multiple causes:

I paid and have not received what I paid for.

Bugs are not fixed.

No comments about bugs, fixing or progress.

The Mirage and also the Harrier are outstanding aircrafts, and the way Razbam brought them to DCS just hurts.

You know, I think a lot of the”rage”, and I mean a lot, would be easily avoided if RAZBAM communicated and was more receptive to the people reporting bugs. I think it’s just a communication issue. At first, they were receptive at release of EA, then that tapered off. Then the community got concerned and vocal, just like viper is. Then they assigned the communications or social media contact, DECOY, then yet again that has tapered off to maybe one post every 2-3 weeks on Facebook. Not even the community forums used for DCS World support and reporting bugs!! You may be right, they are not any dirty or clean than the other developer, but man they have been quiet as church mice. And something so simple to ease a buyers decision to pay for something not complete should weigh heavy on their psyche.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

At least they do it for free. As I was afraid earlier in this thread I'm allowed to pay a third time for the KA-50. And hey the remaining bugs will also get fixed after six or seven years. A mark Razbam never reached (and hopefully wont).

Free? Whats free. We paid for an unfinished product. and your six or seven year part? You don't have any Razbam products in FSX/P3d do you?

Bugs on Viggen and Mig21 are minor (but of course, they should be also fixed). No game breakings bugs there.

Over all, all Razbam systems are very gameish, and far away from real behavor...

Bugs in the Harrier are major, many game breaking bugs.

Developement in the Hornet may not be the fastesr, but it is consistent.

At least, no lies are told there.

 

Stopping development, adding new bugs, not fixing old bugs and releasing a complete other module in the meantime is just not ok and shows what Razbam thinks about their paying customers. They are just not deluvering what they already got paid for.

 

If for you the Viggen and the Mig21 are bugwise and systemwise on the same level as the Harrier, and if development of the Hornet on the same level, then sorry, there is nothing more we could discuss about.

On one thing you can be sure: Razbam will never ever see anymore cent from me.

But if they are so perfect, and if I'm so alone with my feeling, why do they not offering a refund for unsatisfied Harrier purchaser?

I guess at some point one must ask by what qualifications you are able to state that Mirage and Harrier systems are gamified and bear little relation to actual function. Moreover, I would want to know how well of a job you think other DCS modules are doing and how you came to those conclusions based on what information available to you. After reading many posts by you on this particular topic and with the same general schtick behind it, I think it would greatly benefit the community (and RAZBAM's development team) if you were to commit to a full write-up with cited documentation as to how they've erred and how systems may be rectified and brought in line with real-world counterparts.

Could you please list those game-breaking bugs for me? You are aware that incomplete implementation of something is not a bug, correct? Unless you're getting CTDs every flight, I really want to hear what is making this module so unplayable for you. With the amount of posts you make on this forum day-in and day-out, I should expect it to be quite exhaustive and that you can quickly and easily render such a list for us.

What lies were told by RAZBAM about the pace of development on Harrier or Mirage? That you may not see a huge update every week does not necessitate that work is not ongoing, much of this work in the background and simply pure coding - unless you want pictures of the same 3d models and texture maps every week, I really don't know what you're asking for here.

Before you're so quick to dismiss peoples' issues with MiG-21 and Viggen, you should know that there are unresolved issues with employment of missiles from 1-2 and 3-4 stations on the pylon selector in the MiG, reported by others and myself personally dating back to August-September of 2017. Currently missiles fired from those stations fox off simultaneously, behavior that contradicts the module's own manual. We got a cheeky reply from a developer but never any fix, nor do I expect one in the near future. We have however gotten some unrequested passes to the texturework in the cockpit and a cleaner canopy out of it, though. I hold out hope that the work to revitalize the systems of the MiG-21 cockpit will fix this problem, but after 4 years in a woefully incomplete state (since I've bought the module, not its release, mind you) I'm not holding my breath. I have not even begun to discuss similar unresolved issues with IR missile performance, its ever-changing flight model, many missing features among modelled weapons and countermeasure systems, et cetera, et cetera.

RAZBAM continues to work on what was paid for. That it was not completed on your timeline does not indicate that they will not do so. I have no particular fondness for RAZBAM over any other third-party dev, I think most are doing a pretty miserable job at present, I'm just intensely interested as to why RAZBAM is receiving so much flak for behaviors common to all of the third-parties, and especially of Eagle Dynamics themselves (you would agree I am entitled to a Hornet refund as well at this point, yes? It's been a full year almost with no TWS on the radar! Everybody get excited!). Listen, you agreed to the EULA, you waived your right to a refund just like the rest of us. If the overwhelming majority of Hawk buyers aren't getting reimbursed for a module they're never going to even get to look at in the DCS multiplayer arena again, you're not getting refunded for the Harrier, and I'm certainly not getting refunded for my beloved MiG-21, even if it has been in effectively an early-access state for the better part of 5 years now.

It really just appears that a scapegoat has been found, and now this dead horse is going to be beaten into a paste. Posts like this are a big reason why I do not usually partake in this forum or read the cesspit that is Hoggit, but on this rare occasion I felt it necessary to chime in. I'll show myself the door, I don't expect to retain posting privileges on this forum for much longer.

[…]You don't have any Razbam products in FSX/P3d do you?

Ok, wait, what's the story behind this ? I did not know they were developing products for FSX and P3D either.

What lies were told by RAZBAM about the pace of development on Harrier or Mirage? That you may not see a huge update every week does not necessitate that work is not ongoing, much of this work in the background and simply pure coding - unless you want pictures of the same 3d models and texture maps every week, I really don't know what you're asking for here.

While I cannot comment on the Harrier, I can surely talk about the only plane I fly, the Mirage. For your information, the Mid Life Overhaul update was originally planned for Summer 2018 a few weeks after they announced they made a deal with the French Air Force. By Summer 2018 they pushed back the update to Autumn 2018, then to Winter 2018, then to Spring 2019, then to Summer 2019. Something tells me we won't see the MLO update this Summer too.

Since mid-2018, the Mirage received 3 (three !) updates - I'll let you check the content of the updates (wheel chocks, yeah !). From my point of view I can't really say that the Mirage has been actively worked on in the last year. Despite all of these promises unkept, I still have faith, somehow, that we will get our Mirage done one day.

You are defending Razbam, but you have not yet recognized that their and your behavor is long time harmful to DCS and the whole enviroment.

 

You are right, and I often say that, all other devs are also no saints, but Razbam is way over their top with their behavor and way under the average with their modules.

 

And raging has multiple causes:

I paid and have not received what I paid for.

Bugs are not fixed.

No comments about bugs, fixing or progress.

The Mirage and also the Harrier are outstanding aircrafts, and the way Razbam brought them to DCS just hurts.

You were literally JUST linked to the Harrier changelog. It's not abandoned, and your ''opinion'' regarding the value and ease of those patches is entirely subjective i.e. ''pulled out of your ass''

We get it, you're unhappy. Don't buy EA products next time if your panties are going to get wadded up over it not being done in short order. DCS aircraft take 3-5 years start to finish, a number easily confirmed. If you buy an EA aircraft, it's reasonable to assume it will be at least year or two before it's finished, depending on complexity. So, if you're not in it for the long haul, don't buy EA.

As for rants about progress, I've noticed the following :

Easy stuff gets squashed

Devs quietly work on boring/inglorious bugs that consume time

Time passes

After the first patch without updates, rabble rousing begins

Devs continue working

Rabble rousing intensifies

Devs continue working

Rabble rousing becomes obnoxious

Devs continue working

Patch is finally released with several time consuming bug fixes

Rabble rousers declare it only happened because of THEIR efforts

Devs facepalm

Expressing a degree of dissatisfaction is one thing, this obnoxiousness is something else. Dial it back a bit, ffs.

I guess at some point one must ask by what qualifications you are able to state that Mirage and Harrier systems are gamified and bear little relation to actual function.

Tell me, what kind of qualification is needed to know, that a Tpod can't point track and lase a target while it is completely masked? That the exactley coordinates from the Tpod can't be known without lasing? Or that a RWR does not work while turned off? Or that a TWS lock can't be as smooth on the HUD and HDD as a STT lock? Or that IFF immediately, without any delay and on all radar contacts can't be?

Moreover, I would want to know how well of a job you think other DCS modules are doing and how you came to those conclusions based on what information available to you.

On that particular issues:

When moving the Tpod with the A10c, coordinates are displayed. If activating the laser, these coordinates are updated.

When haveing a (L)TWS lock with the Hornet, the target gets on the HUD and the RDR screen only updateted when the radar sweeps over it again (and finds it again).

When you are IFF'ing with the Tomcat, you don't get immediately response from all contacts displayed. Also you can get a response from a contact which is not showing up. Also it is possible, that a friendly contact is not responsing etc..

After reading many posts by you on this particular topic and with the same general schtick behind it, I think it would greatly benefit the community (and RAZBAM's development team) if you were to commit to a full write-up with cited documentation as to how they've erred and how systems may be rectified and brought in line with real-world counterparts.[/Quote]

 

So you have read my posts, did you also found those?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=240734

 

Or this:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=241108

 

Maybe you found also this:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=231590

Thats a perfect example of how Razbam works: Reported on February 2nd. Not even one comment from Razbam. Suddenly (don't know when) moved to "resolved". Still broken until today. So tell me, why should we not feel like played a trick on us?

 

So yes, I try to help Razbam to find their bugs.

They are just ignoring the work the community is doing with bug reporting.

 

Could you please list those game-breaking bugs for me? You are aware that incomplete implementation of something is not a bug, correct? Unless you're getting CTDs every flight, I really want to hear what is making this module so unplayable for you. With the amount of posts you make on this forum day-in and day-out, I should expect it to be quite exhaustive and that you can quickly and easily render such a list for us.

It seems like game-breaking is a term that everyone understands difficult. While it is for you just a CTD, it is for me everything that grants me an advantage where it should not be (TPod pointtrack, TWS), an disadvantage where it should not be (no chaffs working in initial mode S, Tpod can't be slaved), items are bugged all over (Laser on TPod just stops working without any reason or notice), just done wrong (Tpod coordinates) or compeltely missing (like the functionality on most MFD pages).

 

What lies were told by RAZBAM about the pace of development on Harrier or Mirage? That you may not see a huge update every week does not necessitate that work is not ongoing, much of this work in the background and simply pure coding - unless you want pictures of the same 3d models and texture maps every week, I really don't know what you're asking for here.

There have been several lies told.

For example that the Mig19 will be released as "released". It is now released as EA with such big bugs that even ED hold it back initialy.

There is constantly lieing about their team and who is working on what.

Check this thread out, startin on post Nr. 13:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=233750&page=2

 

Before you're so quick to dismiss peoples' issues with MiG-21 and Viggen, you should know that there are unresolved issues with employment of missiles from 1-2 and 3-4 stations on the pylon selector in the MiG, reported by others and myself personally dating back to August-September of 2017. Currently missiles fired from those stations fox off simultaneously, behavior that contradicts the module's own manual. We got a cheeky reply from a developer but never any fix, nor do I expect one in the near future. We have however gotten some unrequested passes to the texturework in the cockpit and a cleaner canopy out of it, though. I hold out hope that the work to revitalize the systems of the MiG-21 cockpit will fix this problem, but after 4 years in a woefully incomplete state (since I've bought the module, not its release, mind you) I'm not holding my breath. I have not even begun to discuss similar unresolved issues with IR missile performance, its ever-changing flight model, many missing features among modelled weapons and countermeasure systems, et cetera, et cetera.

I said it before that all other Devs are no saints.

I could also point on HB for not finishing the Viggen before releasing the Tomcat.

On M3 for not bugging out the Mig21 before the CE2 or now the F8.

Or on ED for not cleaning up all other modules or finishing them.

 

But have you realized whats the difference?

There are only single bugs on these aircrafts. You probably run over them once in a while.

While the Harrier and the Mirage is bugged all over.

Heatblur has a very good community management and is in contact with the community.

ED at least is working on the Hornet and you get new information every week.

Razbam just did one thing: They disappeared completely and bug reports are just getting ignored.

So we have three factors which are in sum unique to Razbam:

No communication

Not telling the truth

Working on other things instead of finishing their things.

 

RAZBAM continues to work on what was paid for.

No, they just did not. Instead of getting a Mirage bug-free (as it is a released module) and finishing the Harrier, they made a compelte new module.

 

When it comes to the Mirage, just as a quick list in my mind:

TWS breaking lock randomly

Waypoints in the wrong spots

INS updates not functioning properly

CCRP bombing falling way too long

TWS on HUD as smooth as a STT

STT through mountains

INS alignment just a fake

Moveable switches behind safety covers

Missing Pilotbody

CRRP bombing immediately drops

Correct HUD symbols when useing Magic II

 

And for the Harrier, we don't even need to start with the bugs, lets take a look what happend in the last time:

The only serious bug fixes have been the correction of the ASL, the "fixing" of the pointtrack, and the correction of the fuel probe.

Beside that, only bling bling things like new cockpit textures have been done. Yeah, its nice to have new looking cockpit, but what does a shiny cockpit helps me, when my GBU's are not hitting cause the laser is just not working or the MFD's chaning randoml the pages without reason? Every heard about priority? You won't polish your car while the engine is broken...

I'm sure everyone would not say that new cockpit textures, or an damage model to the MFD's or a new kneeboard have priority over those things you need for doing the assigned job for the aircraft.

 

 

That it was not completed on your timeline does not indicate that they will not do so. I have no particular fondness for RAZBAM over any other third-party dev, I think most are doing a pretty miserable job at present, I'm just intensely interested as to why RAZBAM is receiving so much flak for behaviors common to all of the third-parties, and especially of Eagle Dynamics themselves (you would agree I am entitled to a Hornet refund as well at this point, yes? It's been a full year almost with no TWS on the radar! Everybody get excited!). Listen, you agreed to the EULA, you waived your right to a refund just like the rest of us. If the overwhelming majority of Hawk buyers aren't getting reimbursed for a module they're never going to even get to look at in the DCS multiplayer arena again, you're not getting refunded for the Harrier, and I'm certainly not getting refunded for my beloved MiG-21, even if it has been in effectively an early-access state for the better part of 5 years now.

 

It really just appears that a scapegoat has been found, and now this dead horse is going to be beaten into a paste. Posts like this are a big reason why I do not usually partake in this forum or read the cesspit that is Hoggit, but on this rare occasion I felt it necessary to chime in. I'll show myself the door, I don't expect to retain posting privileges on this forum for much longer.

As I said above. Its not only nearly none progress, its the lack of communication, progress and lies. Thats the problem and that leads to a lot of rage.

 

We get it, you're unhappy. Don't buy EA products next time if your panties are going to get wadded up over it not being done in short order. DCS aircraft take 3-5 years start to finish, a number easily confirmed. If you buy an EA aircraft, it's reasonable to assume it will be at least year or two before it's finished, depending on complexity. So, if you're not in it for the long haul, don't buy EA.

I don't know why you all are talking about EA? EA is not the problem, EA is great.

Lack of progress, an nearly abandoned project and shift all workload to a new project is the problem.

And if people start to concern about that, staying silent.

EA is not only the customer paying for a full price for a not full module and patiently waiting for getting it done, its also the developers who took money for something they have not delivered yet and have to deliver.

 

Expressing a degree of dissatisfaction is one thing, this obnoxiousness is something else. Dial it back a bit, ffs.

 

It would be a easy job for Razbam to stop that whole ranting right at the beginning:

Communicate with the community

Do what you got paid for

Do that things you said.

 

Easy, wouldn't it?

 

Or at least: Just doing their work and fixing those (nearly year long) known bugs on the Harrier. When people would see progress, communication, and promised things would be done, all people would be happy.

[...]Don't buy EA products next time if your panties are going to get wadded up over it not being done in short order. DCS aircraft take 3-5 years start to finish, a number easily confirmed. If you buy an EA aircraft, it's reasonable to assume it will be at least year or two before it's finished, depending on complexity. So, if you're not in it for the long haul, don't buy EA.

[...]

RAZBAM:"Hey, we'll give you early access to our software for the full price, then stop the development almost completely for a 1.5 year while we launch another product."

This is definitely the way for a good business model with many satisfied customers...

Dont buy it then.

Dont buy it then.

Yeah Coxy, but we have, because we didn't know what we know now. I'm sure none of the teams want to strive for "unfunded development" and generally EA is a good thing for getting new development teams and Indie houses showcased and recognised.

Let's say Spec and Tony and you and I all got into this, had a model and some basic avionics done and we had a good contact on the inside and the flight data, but we were 24 months out from a fully featured module if we worked full time, or 4 years part time. No EA process would stop any ideas of that absolutely dead, because you all know how fragile teams are, how tiring long projects are and how difficult it is to keep things together.

So wind on to looking at the current 3rd parties and ask yourself if any of them are encouraged to join the process by the last 5 years of teams splitting, lack of information, angry mobs and so on. I wouldn't touch this business with someone else's barge pole, but I'm even less inclined if people have bad EA cycles and treat every new developer with as much trust as a dog next to a chocolate bar. This particular habit of poor EA has to stop as it's damaging the entire game and brand. Right now I've not purchased things in EA for the first time from ED due to two specific developers and their way of doing things. I'll not be the only person.

Good for all of us, or bad? EA income is vital on some modules that don't sell as much as the Hornet's and F-14's of this world. And people get judged when they don't perform. We are still looking at a DCS:World engine that could soak up another 10 devs just to get it into the right spot. I know this platform really well, christ I learned a programming language as a side hobby to this hobby.

If EA dies because customers get fed up with x,y or z, then it's going to hurt investment ultimately to ED, it;'s like cutting off your nose to spite your face. That's why it's good that the negative feedback is noticed. Another example of negative feedback that made a real change was ED's licensing policy on 3rd parties covering project abandonment. Think VEAO and what they did.

Yeah Coxy, but we have, because we didn't know what we know now. I'm sure none of the teams want to strive for "unfunded development" and generally EA is a good thing for getting new development teams and Indie houses showcased and recognised.

 

 

 

Let's say Spec and Tony and you and I all got into this, had a model and some basic avionics done and we had a good contact on the inside and the flight data, but we were 24 months out from a fully featured module if we worked full time, or 4 years part time. No EA process would stop any ideas of that absolutely dead, because you all know how fragile teams are, how tiring long projects are and how difficult it is to keep things together.

 

 

So wind on to looking at the current 3rd parties and ask yourself if any of them are encouraged to join the process by the last 5 years of teams splitting, lack of information, angry mobs and so on. I wouldn't touch this business with someone else's barge pole, but I'm even less inclined if people have bad EA cycles and treat every new developer with as much trust as a dog next to a chocolate bar. This particular habit of poor EA has to stop as it's damaging the entire game and brand. Right now I've not purchased things in EA for the first time from ED due to two specific developers and their way of doing things. I'll not be the only person.

 

 

Good for all of us, or bad? EA income is vital on some modules that don't sell as much as the Hornet's and F-14's of this world. And people get judged when they don't perform. We are still looking at a DCS:World engine that could soak up another 10 devs just to get it into the right spot. I know this platform really well, christ I learned a programming language as a side hobby to this hobby.

 

 

If EA dies because customers get fed up with x,y or z, then it's going to hurt investment ultimately to ED, it;'s like cutting off your nose to spite your face. That's why it's good that the negative feedback is noticed. Another example of negative feedback that made a real change was ED's licensing policy on 3rd parties covering project abandonment. Think VEAO and what they did.

Big +1 here.

Its not about EA in general. I'm quite happy with the EA on the hornet, the cat, the viggen etc. Its about what has happened here with this dev. I don't know why they stopped comms, but it seems like a really bad idea.

Look, M3 and the mig 21 are an interesting case, small dev team, the mig still has issues, and they do get worked on slowly. But as a customer I know for a fact I will get an update on what is going on once a quarter and that they do hear people bitching about the ASP and that they are trying slowly to fix it. I may not love the fact the fact progress is slow, but I know that once a quarter I'll get a damn update. Its not rocket science. Or compare this to the engagement on the forums from the Heatblur guys/SME's. None of that here, mainly the blind leading the blind.

In contrast, we had monthly, quarterly, randomly, posted updates about this that or the other. No consistency. Many peoples bug reports were just summarily dismissed with no explanation even though they are still there and in many cases easy to replicate. And even before that they weren't getting acknowledged and onto their web based bug tracker. Pretty much no engament from the Devs, or the community manager, or much from SME's (I think Chicken is one, and he does pop in from time to time and I thank him for that).

And at the end of the day we still have no clue what will constitute "finished" for the harrier. I do have a pretty good idea what I'm gonna get with the F18, or tomcat, or the viggen. I have lots of questions what I'm gonna get with the harrier, in particular on the core bombing functionalities (CCIP/AUTO, LOFT, ASL line actually doing wind/mover compensation, INS innacuraices and how they all interact with this etc).

Look, M3 and the mig 21 are an interesting case, small dev team, the mig still has issues, and they do get worked on slowly. But as a customer I know for a fact I will get an update on what is going on once a quarter and that they do hear people bitching about the ASP and that they are trying slowly to fix it. I may not love the fact the fact progress is slow, but I know that once a quarter I'll get a damn update.

Maybe this is the point you didn't understood correctly. The most conflicting issue on the 21 is the FM, especially from guys in possesion of polish or russian documents of the plane. So that you also understand it: There will be no further tuning or modification of the MiG-21 FM since it is assessed as complete. Thats the difference! And please, show me a quarter were you did not got a Harrier update.

I do have a pretty good idea what I'm gonna get with the F18, or tomcat, or the viggen. I have lots of questions what I'm gonna get with the harrier, in particular on the core bombing functionalities (CCIP/AUTO, LOFT, ASL line actually doing wind/mover compensation, INS innacuraices and how they all interact with this etc).

Two Questions:

1. Ever tried to do high drag bombing with the Hornet in 15kts crosswinds?

2. You have a pretty good idea of the final state of the Viggen? Please share it with us, I would die to know if we get the campaigns, full training missions and a comprahensive manual covering all aspects (including jamming, counter measures and so on) more than 2 years after release. It's still listed on the shop page.

Again, this is not to apologize the development of the Harrier but to open your eyes that all the devs you compare to the devilish Razbam Team also cook with water and have the same issues with some minor deviations.

Maybe this is the point you didn't understood correctly. The most conflicting issue on the 21 is the FM, especially from guys in possesion of polish or russian documents of the plane. So that you also understand it: There will be no further tuning or modification of the MiG-21 FM since it is assessed as complete. Thats the difference! And please, show me a quarter were you did not got a Harrier update.

 

 

 

Two Questions:

 

1. Ever tried to do high drag bombing with the Hornet in 15kts crosswinds?

 

2. You have a pretty good idea of the final state of the Viggen? Please share it with us, I would die to know if we get the campaigns, full training missions and a comprahensive manual covering all aspects (including jamming, counter measures and so on) more than 2 years after release. It's still listed on the shop page.

 

Again, this is not to apologize the development of the Harrier but to open your eyes that all the devs you compare to the devilish Razbam Team also cook with water and have the same issues with some minor deviations.

I'm not an FM nazi, as I understand it the mig21 FM has been changed at least 2x maybe more already. We can bring up polychop and their FM too. The problem with FMs is that they are somewhat subjective and hard to right. The F14 FM has issues right now too same for the mig19. The F18 FM is "detuned" according to ED. Personally I'm good with close enough. About the only things on the Harrier FM I'm worried about are things like "shake" at high G which you can see in vids, but I don't see in the plane.

And I've never claimed the harrier wasn't being worked on. But if you look at the log basically Q3/4 of last year were pretty sparse compared to Q1/2 and then we see more activity Q2 this year after the mig19 release. I think the issue is that they aren't working on the "tier 1" functionality another poster mentioned in this or the other thread.

1. Off the top of my head no, but I'm sure the F18 doesn't do wind leads currently, at a guess, once it has a TPOD/radar/INS it should be able to either the same sort of lead/wind computation that the harrier can IRL, or the same for INS drift bombing like IRL. The difference is that the harrier has ARBS and the Tpod which "should" be able to do movers and wind. And I will happily take my torch and pitchfork over to the F18 section if they don't do that.

2. Yes, I think the HB will deliver all of that. When, beats me, but the bird more or less works and Ragnar is pretty responsive on fixing issues with it or answering questions.

And I never called them the Devil, don't put words in my mouth. But I think compared to the other Devs they have a serious PR/comms problem. All the other devs have issues, but mostly the pitchfork brigade stays home, why is that? What specifically is Razbam doing or not doing to earn all the ire?

I don't think its a big deal to announce like M3 or ED hey, next quarter we are working on things XYZ. Most likely you'll get 2 outa 3 if things go well.

I'm pretty much over Razbam because of the Harrier. It's a shame because they have some stuff in the pipeline I'm excited about. I like the Mirage despite its few flaws but I look at the Harrier and think how could I expect them to do the F-15E? Or even a glass cockpit super tucano? I bought the mig-19 to show support for the desperately needed red air and I want the Mig-23. But money talks and after giving up hope on the Harrier my only voice is my wallet. I'm sorry for the negativity and I'm not trying to be rude. I WANT Razbam to succeed. We need devs. But I'm not coming back to Razbam aircraft until the Harrier is sorted.

I'm pretty much over Razbam because of the Harrier. It's a shame because they have some stuff in the pipeline I'm excited about. I like the Mirage despite its few flaws but I look at the Harrier and think how could I expect them to do the F-15E? Or even a glass cockpit super tucano? I bought the mig-19 to show support for the desperately needed red air and I want the Mig-23. But money talks and after giving up hope on the Harrier my only voice is my wallet. I'm sorry for the negativity and I'm not trying to be rude. I WANT Razbam to succeed. We need devs. But I'm not coming back to Razbam aircraft until the Harrier is sorted.

Same here. I want nothing but the best in their endeavors with ED and the community. I really want the F-15E just because it’s a perfect niche for me and what I enjoy doing in DCS. However after experiencing and observing the true colors of the business and their priorities, I’m not going to pursue any further purchases from RAZBAM. Even new maps.

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Same here. I want nothing but the best in their endeavors with ED and the community. I really want the F-15E just because it’s a perfect niche for me and what I enjoy doing in DCS. However after experiencing and observing the true colors of the business and their priorities, I’m not going to pursue any further purchases from RAZBAM. Even new maps.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'll be well pissed, if all the whiners here, cause a VEAO type meltdown, because their switch doesn't work and the Harrier is consigned to history, alongside the Hawk and nobody will be able to use it, more importantly me and my most used aircraft.

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