Hover landing

Tried doing it multiple times on the USS Tarawa but really can't understand or anticipate the aerodynamics of the aircraft. Even though I'm under 20,000 lbs I still manage to gently sink into the sea with full thrust and water injection. Once, I pitched so high that the plane sank backwards with the tail dipping in first.

1. One thing that really bothers me is that with the nozzles at 82 degrees if I try to bank or roll the aircraft it goes into this endless swaying motion from left to right and I can't recover from it and eventually sink. Any ideas? or tips? :helpsmilie:

What helped me was... practice, practice, practice. Start on airfield, take off vertically and try to get into a stable hover, get feeling for the aircraft, then try to land on the same spot where did you start. A little curves in pitch and roll axis definitely help a lot. When you get frustrated, go and try something different (AAR in Harrier is fun as well ). But the general rule is: keep calm and keep trying. Good luck!

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Thank you!

You're welcome! And don't forget to try the training missions included with the module, they're probably the best ones in DCS.

Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk

You're welcome! And don't forget to try the training missions included with the module, they're probably the best ones in DCS.

 

Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk

I'm doing them but they're very detailed. That's not a bad thing, just a lot to take in.

I'm going to say something that may be a bit controversial, so let me state first that everyone should decide their own budget and have their fun within this budget, and don't worry if you are not achieving the same precision in the game as someone with a bigger budget.

What hardware are you using? I noticed a huge difference when changing from a regular control stick (saitek X56, don't buy it) to a VKB stick. It's hard to describe, but it really helps in controlling sensitive maneuvers like flying helicopters or hovering the harrier.

I guess the main difference is the center position, where most sticks have a little notch that keeps the stick at the center when not applying force. To get the stick out of the center position, you need quite a bit of force which causes you to lose precision (ie. overshoot).

With the fancier sticks there's an option to control it without such a centering notch, allowing you to move it with barely any resistance close to the zero. This really helps in the small corrections between sligtly rolling left and slightly rolling to the right that you encounter.

Also the FPS you manage to get make a difference, if the FPS is too low it's more difficult to spot small movements, delaying your response time.

In other words, hardware makes a big difference. However, I'm not saying that any of these things is impossible with less fancy hardware, it just takes more skill.

Try setting a joystick curve in the options.

Practice hovering first

And when you are on a landing approach, be methodical about slowing down and lowering nozzles. If you force it you’ll just drop.

Also... in flight don’t over speed/stress the engine and make sure to conserve some H2O for extra landing power.

Try setting a joystick curve in the options.

 

Practice hovering first

 

And when you are on a landing approach, be methodical about slowing down and lowering nozzles. If you force it you’ll just drop.

 

Also... in flight don’t over speed/stress the engine and make sure to conserve some H2O for extra landing power.

Alright, Thanks!:thumbup:

Tried doing it multiple times on the USS Tarawa but really can't understand or anticipate the aerodynamics of the aircraft. Even though I'm under 20,000 lbs I still manage to gently sink into the sea with full thrust and water injection. Once, I pitched so high that the plane sank backwards with the tail dipping in first.

 

1. One thing that really bothers me is that with the nozzles at 82 degrees if I try to bank or roll the aircraft it goes into this endless swaying motion from left to right and I can't recover from it and eventually sink. Any ideas? or tips? :helpsmilie:

What worked for me to stop this swaying is using the rudders instead of the stick to counter this. Try that and let me know if it helps.

You're welcome! And don't forget to try the training missions included with the module, they're probably the best ones in DCS.

 

Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk

Thank you, sir!

What worked for me to stop this swaying is using the rudders instead of the stick to counter this. Try that and let me know if it helps.

Roger that! :thumbup:

Crash Compilation

Guys, I decided to record some of my attempts at hovering. Here are 3 attempts that all ended in crashes. Do give me feedback on how to improve my skills with this beast.

What worked for me to stop this swaying is using the rudders instead of the stick to counter this. Try that and let me know if it helps.

I had limited success with the pedals as I didn't know exactly how to counter the swaying. Do I need to keep the pedals in pressed in one direction or do I move them in tandem with the motion of the plane?

Over controlling and entering PIO's from what i could tell, Practice anticipating aircraft movement and using small inputs, it's what makes it fun. :joystick:

Guys, I decided to record some of my attempts at hovering. Here are 3 attempts that all ended in crashes. Do give me feedback on how to improve my skills with this beast.

 

 

 

 

I had limited success with the pedals as I didn't know exactly how to counter the swaying. Do I need to keep the pedals in pressed in one direction or do I move them in tandem with the motion of the plane?

Don’t hold them pressed, just react with them instead of a stick.

Also pay close attention to the Witches Hat - if you keep it on the horizon you should be level. The TVV will show you whether you are ascending or descending. Use stick only to move nose up or down or if you want to run sideways. Otherwise just focus on the rudders. And try a short training mission under VTOL part that focuses solely on hovering, I don’t remember the name right now...

Over controlling and entering PIO's from what i could tell, Practice anticipating aircraft movement and using small inputs, it's what makes it fun. :joystick:

What's PIO?

Don’t hold them pressed, just react with them instead of a stick.

 

Also pay close attention to the Witches Hat - if you keep it on the horizon you should be level. The TVV will show you whether you are ascending or descending. Use stick only to move nose up or down or if you want to run sideways. Otherwise just focus on the rudders. And try a short training mission under VTOL part that focuses solely on hovering, I don’t remember the name right now...

Ok

What's PIO?

Pilot Induced Oscillation. Overcompensating and starting a swing motion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot-induced_oscillation

Patience. Slow down. Slow down your corrections, slow down your descent. Ease up on the stick, relax your grip. Little movements on the throttle and stick. Don't let your descent hit more than 400 or 500 FPM. Take your time, it's not a race to the ground.

Hi irfanahmed1979,

My 2 cents worth if it helps: First thing I noticed is that you are sitting very very low in the cockpit, too low to see the wind vane in front of you. My advice would be to raise your point of view up so that the compass heading tape is near the top of the HUD, that way you will have a better view out the front, that will give you more visual cues/reference points for controlling the hover.

The second thing I wonder (and you probably realise this already) but don't forget that below 60 knots the velocity vector is actually showing rate of descent/ascent, it is not behaving as 'normal' if you see what I mean (edit: as Baltic Dragon has already pointed out above). It will transition to a total VVI once above 60 knots. From your video, it just looks to me like you might be using the stick to control the VVI, instead of using it to control the 'witches hat'. Use the throttle to control the rate of ascent/descent, and the stick to put the witches hat on the horizon and keep it there. You have to be positive with the stick to boss that witches hat around!

As for the side to side, that will be difficult to control so long as your witches hat is so far from the horizon and your vertical velocity is a long way from zero, but as every else says, you have to anticipate. When I say anticipate I mean the following: lets say for example you want to correct a roll to the left, so you move the stick to the right. As you begin to role wings level, I would be adding left stick before the wings get level to ensure that I don't go too far the other way, don't wait until you are rolling to the right!

Also, on the plus side I notice that your lift off and initial ascent is very smooth and under control at first, and under normal circumstances you wold transition from jetborne to wingborne flight long before your problems begin.

Practice make perfect (or at least survivable!)

Good luck and keep trying!

Guys, I decided to record some of my attempts at hovering. Here are 3 attempts that all ended in crashes. Do give me feedback on how to improve my skills with this beast.

 

 

 

 

I had limited success with the pedals as I didn't know exactly how to counter the swaying. Do I need to keep the pedals in pressed in one direction or do I move them in tandem with the motion of the plane?

A Hotas will greatly improve your throttle control. the little throttle on the joystick isnt precise enough really for the sort of control you want to have hovering. I have the same joystick, no pedals and an X52 hotas. I fly the harrier pretty often. and really the key to hovering is keeping the engine right at the edge of its 100%, and really feather it to keep yourself stable. and learn to use the rudders very gently. In hover mode you arent using the rudder. your using the puffer jets at the extremities of the aircraft. so rapid movements will most certainly send you out of control. just practise slow and steady. make sure you have the nozzles at 82 degrees, and water turned on so you dont burn up the engine.

you wont regret getting a hotas i promise you.

Here are a couple more points in addition to the great advice already given. When practicing set the wind in the mission to 10 to 12 knots running exactly down your approach to the runway. This will help a lot.

Firstly don't start by going straight into a vertical take off. Hovering is the most challenging part of the whole envelope. Get used to flying conventionally at low speeds first, setup the aircraft at 800 to 1000 feet alt, on the centre line of the runway, set the nozzles to 60 deg ,flaps to stol and most important trim the elevators so the nose is level. If you don't trim correctly you start to fight 3 things at the same time, the nose rises which you have to control with stick imputs. The descent rate gets out of control, high descent rates are the surest way to start wing wobbles. So then starts the mixing bowl motion with the control column, which makes the pio worse.

Trimming is super important, if it is set right you can concentrate on using the throttle to control rate of descent(more on this in a moment) keeping the wings level. Do loads of touch and goes like this, get used to keeping the descent rate steady,200 to 400 fps, smooth on the throttle, don't snatch it back and forward. Practice choosing apoint to touch down on the runway and try to hit it on each circuit.

Once you are used to this run the same approach, but for the last part of the descent set the nozzle to 70 deg. The stage where the speed drops from 100 to 60 knots is where the descent rate can get out of control. The lift is transferring from the wing s to lift from the engine so concentrate on keep it below 400 fps. Smooth, steady speed and descent rate changes are the key.

Repeat with the nozzle at 80 deg, very soon you will be able come to a steady state,small inputs on the stick and controlling the forward speed with small nozzle changes. You will be hovering without realising it.

Also check this I had a stick with twist action for the rudder, when I got some pedals I didn't realise that the mapping for the stick rudder hadn't been removed when I setup the pedals. This was fighting each other and leading to Pios

Thanks for the great tips and advice guys. One more thing, I'm using two buttons on the stick to control the nozzles but the nozzles move pretty fast. For example I have to really press slightly and repeatedly to get them exactly at 82 degrees. I couldn't find any other way of controlling them. Is there another way?

I would have invested in a HOTAS but financial considerations don't permit me to do so at the moment. However, again which HOTAS would each of you recommend? ...and which HOTAS should I stay away from? Reliability and longevity is a priority for me.

With Harrier think less ''airplane'' and more ''helicopter''. Also, comtrol curves if you're using a shorter stick. The key to EVERYTHING is precise, measured movement. Gentle movements, carefully calculated, like ballet.

You can use the nozzle stops to set limits you can't exceed. Problem solved. Alternatively, assign an axis somewhere if.you have any rotaries or a split throttle.

One question from someone who hasn’t done much hover in the Harrier, is there control augmentation on the puffer jets? Like, does the stick become a rate control or is it pure analog thruster control where one has to counter every input?

Thinking back to my time in KSP since it really is spacecraft controls when hovering.

It's a rate control system.

Thanks for the great tips and advice guys. One more thing, I'm using two buttons on the stick to control the nozzles but the nozzles move pretty fast. For example I have to really press slightly and repeatedly to get them exactly at 82 degrees. I couldn't find any other way of controlling them. Is there another way?

Yes. The nozzle angle lever also has an angle position lock. Look to the left aft of the nozzle angle lever and you will see another black lever.

How I set it is to use the mouse to pull the nozzle angle lever back beyond 82 degrees, bring the lock lever up to the nozzle lever. Now, click and hold on the lock lever, look at the nozzle angle on the hud and mouse raise the lock (which also pushes the angle position lever) to 82 degrees. Now you can use your buttons to move the nozzles where ever but they will always stop at 82.

Some of the best advice I got was "Don't be afraid to slap her around." If she's getting away from you a quick hard push with the stick/rudders calms her down a smidge.

As far as trimming the stab to -2, I think this is just a suggestion. I slowly increase throttle and before take off, she floats forward or backward. I reduce power then make a minor stab adjustment to compensate. Increase throttle, rinse and repeat.

You're doing good mate! I'll see you onboard soon! :pilotfly: