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F16 FFB issue


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I am using a hybrid Microsoft FFB 2 stick here (with a Fighterstick handle grafted on basically), the FFB firmness is not consistent in X and Y, you have to swap axis as with all DCS aircraft, as expected, but the Y axis has an expected firmness, yet the X axis feels soft and too light compared to Y...........this problem does not exist in any other aircraft.

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  • 1 month later...
I am using a hybrid Microsoft FFB 2 stick here (with a Fighterstick handle grafted on basically), the FFB firmness is not consistent in X and Y, you have to swap axis as with all DCS aircraft, as expected, but the Y axis has an expected firmness, yet the X axis feels soft and too light compared to Y...........this problem does not exist in any other aircraft.

 

Any acknowledgement please ? The issue still exists ? :joystick:

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No different, the Y axis FFB is not the same pressure as the X axis, visa versa if you switch axis in the ffb options

 

Maybe you could try 100, 50 Eldur and see if you have the problem yourself, I doubt very much you will notice so much at 66, 20, I just tried 80,40 and things were already becoming quite soft.

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I was curious, what exactly are you expecting from a FFB joystick for the F-16? I'm not sure how they would model that except to copy and paste the F-18's profile. The F-16's stick doesn't move, how can they accurately model FFB? Other than some vibration corresponding to engine power state or firing the cannon?

 

 

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I was curious, what exactly are you expecting from a FFB joystick for the F-16? I'm not sure how they would model that except to copy and paste the F-18's profile. The F-16's stick doesn't move, how can they accurately model FFB? Other than some vibration corresponding to engine power state or firing the cannon?

 

I have no preconceived ideas how it should feel, but given that it doesn't actually move anyway I am certain that both the X and Y axis should have the same relative pressure, at a minimum. F18 works flawlessly as do all other modules.

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I have no preconceived ideas how it should feel, but given that it doesn't actually move anyway I am certain that both the X and Y axis should have the same relative pressure, at a minimum. F18 works flawlessly as do all other modules.

 

How do you know that the force required is equal? The F-16's stick actually has varying force required depending on which way you push or pull. Your arm is naturally stronger in flexion than extension, and adduction than abduction, i.e. nose down and roll right require less force because you are naturally stronger pulling back and toward you, even more so in the F-16's side stick configuration. Works great with the FSSB, no issues at all.

 

It would seem to make sense that greater force is required in pitch than roll as that is what will black you out from gloc. I've never used a FFB joystick, I'd like to try the Brunner FFB for the other modules, but I spent my Christmas money on the FSSB.

 

Is there a way to calibrate force feedback outside DCS? The FSSB has it's own calibration software that can tune the force required.

 

 

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I have no preconceived ideas how it should feel, but given that it doesn't actually move anyway I am certain that both the X and Y axis should have the same relative pressure, at a minimum. F18 works flawlessly as do all other modules.

 

+1

 

The option should exist to allow you to change the force for each independent axis to how you want it.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=250871

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  • 4 months later...
I am using a hybrid Microsoft FFB 2 stick here (with a Fighterstick handle grafted on basically), the FFB firmness is not consistent in X and Y, you have to swap axis as with all DCS aircraft, as expected, but the Y axis has an expected firmness, yet the X axis feels soft and too light compared to Y...........this problem does not exist in any other aircraft.

 

 

i just picked up the F-16 today and also confirm the two axis are vastly different in their stiffness, it's very odd. also i had a very large dead zone in the middle of both X and Y. i checked my settings and they're both 0. but to get the bird to start rolling i really have to push the stick pretty far which makes it seem very unresponsive.

 

i just got done flying both the M-2000 and F/A-18 and they both are much more quick on the input recognition.

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  • 2 months later...

Force Feedback implementation

 

I was wondering if I was the only one that noticed that Force Feedback is not implemented for 'firing guns', 'stall buffet, 'rolling down the runway' et cetera. Is this just me, is it not implemented, and if not, will it be implemented in the future?

 

(I'm building a simpit and having some Force Feedback on these 'actions' would greatly improve immersion)

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  • 6 months later...

I am seeing this exact issue. The centering force on the roll axis (X) is about half the centering force on the pitch axis (Y). It’s not present on other aircraft so it is definitely an F-16C bug. 
 

also, I can’t turn Force Feedback off in settings. I’d expect it should just have the centering motors act like basic springs, but instead the motors turn off completely and I get a loose stick. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

@v4ri4bleI have similar troubles with FFB (G940 mod). The Y axis definitely has to much force, stressing it's motor with heavy duty all the time, while the X axis motor is on much less power...

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  • 2 months later...

Anyone know if this issue has been corrected? The two axis still have vastly different ffb resistance.

 

I've also never gotten a straight answer on which axis is supposed to be which (swapped or not). Any update?

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I've also noticed the same issue in the latest DCS version. I think it may be an attempt to simulate different force levels required to operate X and Y axes in the real force sensing stick, but it does not translate well to a moving FFB stick. We just end up with a very unbalanced controls, one axis has very little resistance, the other axis is very stiff. 

A more symmetrical centring spring force like in DCS Hornet would be a better solution for FFB stick owners.

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  • 4 months later...
On 9/2/2023 at 8:43 PM, some1 said:

I've also noticed the same issue in the latest DCS version. I think it may be an attempt to simulate different force levels required to operate X and Y axes in the real force sensing stick, but it does not translate well to a moving FFB stick. We just end up with a very unbalanced controls, one axis has very little resistance, the other axis is very stiff. 

A more symmetrical centring spring force like in DCS Hornet would be a better solution for FFB stick owners.

This exactly. One more desperate VPforce Rhino user here.

Understanding that the FFB setup might make sense for force sensing sticks, the feeling (especially for elevator axis) is simply not right for moving FFB sticks. This makes precision flying very unenjoyable.

Wishlisting two alternative workarounds:
- Alt 1: Implement another FFB profile option to work with moving FFB sticks
- Alt 2: Add an option to bypass "real" FFB output with just spring & damping forces in relation to stick displacement, simulating a traditional non-FFB joystick


Edited by Firaga
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1 hour ago, Firaga said:

One more desperate VPforce Rhino user here.

If you own a Rhino, you should be able to simply click the "sticky" checkbox for the spring effect in VPforce configurator, and that should override whatever DCS is setting. Obviously use this option only when flying F-16.

 image.jpeg

 

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19 hours ago, some1 said:

If you own a Rhino, you should be able to simply click the "sticky" checkbox for the spring effect in VPforce configurator, and that should override whatever DCS is setting. Obviously use this option only when flying F-16.

 image.jpeg

 

I owe you a beer, not sure how I didn't notice that earlier. Privileged to be a Rhino owner.

Anyway, the DCS issue is still valid. 

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On 1/28/2024 at 6:17 PM, Firaga said:

I owe you a beer, not sure how I didn't notice that earlier. Privileged to be a Rhino owner.

Anyway, the DCS issue is still valid. 

Be adviced, that setting is general (you will lose trim in other modules), better to use TelemFFB profiling (so to have the f16 profile with the sticky setting, but other modules with standard spring setting).

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