Newbie with questions.

Hope this is the right place to post this if not I apologize.

So, I've resently ordered a Saitek X52 Pro joystick (mainly for using with MWO) but thought I'd look at getting into some flightsims at the same time as it's something I've been wanting to do for a while but pushed off due to lack of a joystick.

I then came across DCS A-10C and was thrilled to see a sim centered around my 4th favorite aircraft and when checking it on youtube and coming across ralfidude's videos I was just amazed.

But, have a few questions before diving in and buying the game:

1: Is the X52 joystick "good enough" for playing this game or would I need one with more options and more...stuff?

2: Having never played a flightsim in my life, should I even attempt this game or start with something easier? (if there is such a thing).

3: A bit weird I guess, but is there some way to learn the proper "lingo" without actually being an airforce pilot? I'm all about imersion when it comes to games and going "Gonna fire my missle thingy at the doohickey with the gizmo down there" would just not "cut" it for me.

Again, hope it's the right place to throw these questions.

And thanks in advance from a hopefully future sim-pilot.

X52 is fine ..... but TM Warthog is the biz , cant offer comment on other stuff as I dont have any .

Tir5 is a must , has to be seen to be believed .

Learn with FC3 ..... I would suggest being your best option .

Lingo will come in time , get TS 3 programme so you can chat with other players , plus its a lot more immersion .

Hope this helps :)

The X52 is sufficient for A-10C, though you won't be able to put everything on the HOTAS like you would with the Thrustmaster Warthog (which is the actual A-10 flight stick and costs $400).

Flying the A-10 is relatively easy, though I don't know how much you know about flying. If you want to experiment with a realistic flight model, download DCS World and fly the free Su-25T. It has physics that are detailed like the A-10. The difference between the planes is that the Su-25 is faster, but less agile and feels heavier/more sluggish. It also handles worse on the ground. You may also want to consider Flaming Cliffs 3, which for $40 gives you 7 lower detail aircraft, one of which is the A-10A. It has simple flight physics and avionics, but lacks an interactive cockpit (and the cockpit model is lower detail). It's basically a A-10 version of the Su-25T without the advanced physics. I don't recommend buying FC3 just for the A-10 unless you just can't get into DCS A-10.

If you want to learn lingo, look up brevity codes. Also, give your wingman orders, listen to your pilot's voice, their replies. And finally, read the communications section of the PDF manual for examples of commands and replies for various things.

EDIT

Actually, unless there is one on youtube, someone should make a DCS A-10 vs FC A-10 video. I think I will if I have time this weekend. Demonstrating 3D model (ext and cockpit), flight model (take off - landing - stall), and avionics (start up - fire weapon - target detection).

Thanks for the quick replies, think I'll give DCS world a go.

FC3 sounds interesting but as silly as it may sound, I wanna click buttons and flick switches and all that stuff ^^

Thanks for the quick replies, think I'll give DCS world a go.

FC3 sounds interesting but as silly as it may sound, I wanna click buttons and flick switches and all that stuff ^^

Not silly at all. I don't know who wouldn't want to flip switches.

The X52 is sufficient for A-10C, though you won't be able to put everything on the HOTAS like you would with the Thrustmaster Warthog (which is the actual A-10 flight stick and costs $400).

Not really true. Modifier keys easily allow you to place all HOTAS functions onto the stick. I even have a few more than the real stick has on it.

As for where to start, in terms of DCS modules then A-10 is probably the easiest to learn because its a forgiving aircraft that outside of combat considerations has a nice low stall speed, good low speed handling characteristics, and doesn't rely on advanced avionics to stay in the sky, most of its glass is designed for putting lead/fire on a target.

FC3 really isn't a DCS title, its just a ported pre-DCS title thats filling the gap til a proper fighter gets developed/released. So you can start with the downgraded one, but it depends on your goals. If you want to push yourself as far as you can in terms of learning curve proper DCS aircraft are good, but if you just want to get in the air FC3 might offer you the variety and flatter learning curve for someone who is more easily discouraged.

Be warned though, FC3 requires Lock On, but that should only run you maybe an extra $5 to $10.

I'd say if you already own the A-10 just stick with it. I think its a joy to fly.

You can mod your X-52 to make it more robust and less twitchy, but the profile will be your best asset when using it. Mostly though you don't NEED to get highly technical on the controls if you just want to fly. There is a difference between flying the airframe and flying the attack role. You can fly the A-10 without using any weapons or really most of the HOTAS functions. In that respects its very much an older style aircraft and its easy to approach it from a pure flying stand point.

I'd recommend focusing on start up, take off, maintaining level flight, understanding trim and coordinated turns, and landing. If you can do most of that then you're on the way. The principles of flight are mostly universal amongst fixed wing, whereas the procedures and facets of a weapons system like the A-10C is peculiar to the aircraft.

EDIT. One last thing, I don't know why people think the FC3 is newbie friendly. I always find that its easier to instruct a new player to click a particular switch in a particular panel much more easily than trying to get someone to memorize a command which wont even really help them visualize how it applies to the airframe. I think clickable cockpits are much easier for learning personally, even if the ones that you can click tend to have more stuff to do.

Thanks for the quick replies, think I'll give DCS world a go.

FC3 sounds interesting but as silly as it may sound, I wanna click buttons and flick switches and all that stuff ^^

Good point there, for me at least, I found it easier to learn the A-10C with its more complex, systems when compared to the F-15C now in FC3!

The interesting thing is, I can remember the switches and buttons easier than a non-clickable keyboard shortcuts and mappings on my TM Warthog HOTAS. In the F-15C I always want to "click" the MFD to switch to the map, use the gear lever etc. and need to recall the damn mappings.

The A-10C is challenging in terms of systems complexity, because to manage everything, you need a lot of time, but for learning a bird and have some fun, flying around, bombing stuff etc. it is just fine.

Some advice. Don't use the "Game/Arcade" Mode! Start with real avionics, real flight model at first. You may think about Labels on, Easy Radios, Unlimited fuel and bombs and sure you want to train a bit with immortal settings in the beginning, but don't fall for Arcade Gameplay. It ruins immersion and in the end you have to re-learn to fly the Hog when switching to realistic.

Take some time to optimize your controls / HOTAS, if you don't start with a TM Warthog it is important to get a good setup that comforts you and if you feel a certain button assignment "made sense" when you set it up at first, but does not work out when flying, change it.

Learn the ramp start and follow the Trainings they are excellent for the A-10C.

If you can start and take off, go for dumb bombs, rockets and the guns - learn the DSMS and understand the "Profile" concept, the usual click on a bomb and pickle the release button works, but profiles are the right way to select weapons, you will understand when you learn :D

That will enable you to have some quick fun...

At last but not least, if you have a headset, teamspeak and no total aversion to online Multiplayer gaming, do it. There is no better way to learn flying the Hog than joining a server with a training or free flight mission and fly with some experienced guys.

Look around the forums, there are a lot of threads for online flying available and if you look for the more relaxed flyers like SpareTimePilots (STP) you can have a lot of fun and a good learning curve :thumbup:

Cheers mate, and welcome to the forums.

Never intended to give the arcade style a go, if I just wanted fly around and pewpew I would start up BF3 ^^

Counting on spending alot of time on just learning to get it started and in the air, I'm in no rush to do nighttime uber elite missions or anything of the sort.

Have no experience with flying but dreamt about being a fighter pilot as a kid (sadly I'm to tall ^^) so the more realism I can get the better!

Haven't boughtt he game yet as I thought I would ask around here first, and wait till my stick gets here but I'm currently downloading DCS World to have a look at it.

The interesting thing is, I can remember the switches and buttons easier than a non-clickable keyboard shortcuts and mappings on my TM Warthog HOTAS.

Called it. ;)

Another thing, if you are serious about understanding what you're doing rather than memorizing a series of lessons learned that basically boil down to "This makes me crash, this makes me fly" you should understand some of the basic aerodynamic terminology.

Angle of Attack in particular gets confused a lot and for instance many people seem surprised if you tell them that airplanes don't fly perfectly straight, that their nose flies a few degrees above the longitudinal axis of their direction of travel for instance (the surprise being part of the misunderstanding between Angle of Attack and general Pitch Angle).

Also, when learning things like trim or stable flight its important to remember that airspeed and altitude all affect control surfaces in a constantly shifting way based on such variables. This means that changing speed and altitude means you'll have to trim.

Also, understanding why aircraft don't fall out of the sky when flying upside down is a fun rollercoaster for your brain. :megalol:

You don't need to know this stuff, but when my buddy who's a guru of Black Shark piloting explains to a new guy things about ground effect and rotor vortex ring state I see that its clearly better to know why you don't do something than to just say "ummm don't do that... I guess".

I'm all for learning all that I can, I'm a knowledge sponge...to begin with I'll focus on starting up the plane without the wings falling off though ^^

I'm new to the A-10C as well, and as I'm learning, I've began taking notes, reading everything multiple times, and flying the training missions several times, until the entire "training" for that part makes total sense! Surprisingly, I haven't found this boring or "unfun", but rather, I get a sense of accomplishment every time I take another step forward! I'm all about realism, and want to get the very most I can out of this Sim!

If you ever want inspiration, hit youtube and watch some multiplayer "Pilots" flying together!! They have put in tons of time and practice to reach their levels, and I hope to become "one of them" as soon as I can get there... but I'm not gonna rush it. Instead, I'm gonna learn it! Best luck to you and your endeavors!!

Matz

Yup, MatzWarhog!

That's why we love DCSW because it adds the level of realism that gives that sense of accomplishment beyond just going out and mashing the "pickle" button without having to consider all the many factors that lead up to being able to release a weapon and get a hit.

Love it. Wish we had a list somewhere of everyone's multi-player handles so we could correlate between forum and in-game. Also wish there was a 24/7 public server that everyone frequented so we could see familiar faces and help newbies like MatzWarhog out, getting to know the ropes of working with a wingman, etc. What's out there that address that stuff?

I may just update my in-game handle to match my forum handle.

One thing in particular you would want to make a copy of or write down in some legible format is the HOTAS function chart thats found on page 88-89 and 91-92 of the manual.

That was my most referenced notation sheet right there while learning.

One thing in particular you would want to make a copy of or write down in some legible format is the HOTAS function chart thats found on page 88-89 and 91-92 of the manual.

 

That was my most referenced notation sheet right there while learning.

Hehe... I actually keep that up on a second monitor when flying, and I'm going to print them as well, so I can add notes, just so I can reference it "on the fly" (pun intended).

One thing I'd love to see, and it may already exist and I'm too new to know or understand, would be "Back Seat Flying" with some mega-accomplished pilots! I'm not sure if that's the premise of "Spectating in Multiplayer", but if you could "look over a pilot's shoulder" while they are tearing up the skies (or the ground), that would be an invaluable learning tool! To be able to watch in real-time from the cockpit of an experienced pilot, would be incredibly educating!! So how's the best way to go about that? Or rather, what do you guys suggest? I think "SafetyTurtle" would agree, that while we are learning to not crash and burn, we also get to see how the Big Dogs, already off the porch, do it! The videos I've watched just stun me with the level of skill and knowledge possessed by the Pilots! What's the best route??

Matz

Gotta say, for a flight sim newbie it's all a bit intimidating.

Been looking through the manual and even though I'm excited to get started (postman better get here soon with my stick) it's a tad scary to see all the things I'll have to learn.

But like I said, looking forward to it...and something tells me I'll be bit by the bug and end up getting track IR, pedals...heck, if I didn't live in a two room apartment I'd proberbly start planning a simpit.

While waiting I'm making sure to check out all the videos I can on youtube to prepare myself abit, it'll be a big change from the games I'm used to (mostly FPS and RPGs) but something I've been thinking about for a while.

Wanna thank you all for answering my questions, it's helped alot.

Just take it step by step, one thing after another. Don´t attempt to fight in the Hog until you know how to fly it. ;) Don´t rush yourself, and don´t move on the next learning goal until you have the current one totally mastered in every single aspect. Keep repeating things, work up a muscle memory (especially important later on, when you are in combat and can´t look up what button on your HOTAS does what) and fly the training missions over and over and over again, and when you are done with them, fly them another time. And then one more time, and then again.

Keep in mind that it takes several years for real pilots to become combat ready, so don´t expect to be up and running in two weeks. Be prepared to not even get into the air the first couple of days, but to spend time on the ground learning the various systems, starting the baby up and shutting her down again.

This is no simple first person shooter or some x-box game, this is a real sim. It requires determination, discipline and the will to learn. The learning curve is steep as hell, but once you have mastered it there is nothing better in the world than taking her out for a spin. Stick with it, the reward will be enormous. Much better than anything a simple game like CoD, BF3 or whatever their names are could ever give you.

P.S.

As for a simpit, it´s not a question of "if", but of "when". Trust me on this one. ;) I suggest you check put the products http://www.obutto.com has to offer. The guy who makes these is an avid simmer himself and knows what we need and want, and his stuff has earned quite a good reputation while still being very affordable.

Oh, and as for the TrackIR, you wanna get that before you get anything else. It´s not nice to have, it´s mandatory. If mine broke down I´d rather not fly until the replacement is here than to attempt to fly without it. You have to experience it to believe it.

Oh for me Simpit is a question of when, I simply don't have the space for it. :p

The reason I wanna get into it because of the realism and sim'inism (it's a word!) and yeah I know it'll take alot of practice.

Sitting behind a drumset was pretty intimidating to the first couple of times, so I know what it feels like to get rewarded for lots of practice.

Only thing holding me back right now is waiting for my joystick and throttle, I'll be installing the game as soon as it's in my hands.

Been thinking: would it be wise to get the game now even though I'm stuck with keyboard and mouse to get started on at least the start up procedure etc?

Have no experience with flying but dreamt about being a fighter pilot as a kid (sadly I'm to tall ^^) so the more realism I can get the better!

Just to chime in, I think DCS A-10C is one of the best choices available under these circumstances. It won't get any more realistic unless you managed to persuade the USAF to let you fly the real thing. :)

Been thinking: would it be wise to get the game now even though I'm stuck with keyboard and mouse to get started on at least the start up procedure etc?

Sure, go ahead. The first few in-game tutorials actually take place on the ground, providing an overview of the cockpit and getting into some of the systems without taking off. That way, when your stick gets there, you'll already have a general idea of the cockpit layout. I don't see any downside.

And BTW stick, I think the X-52 is pretty much the best choice unless you get the Thrustmaster Warthog. TrackIR and, to a lesser degree, rudder pedals are the real game-changers once you've got a decent HOTAS.

Being danish I doubt they'd even let me get close to one ^^

Got a point, I'll go download it and see how it goes.

Track IR is the next item on my list followed by pedals and yeah, been told some great things about the X52 Pro, at least for it's price.

And BTW stick, I think the X-52 is pretty much the best choice unless you get the Thrustmaster Warthog. TrackIR and, to a lesser degree, rudder pedals are the real game-changers once you've got a decent HOTAS.

X-52 is the only sensible choice if you have a budget. Anything over the X-52 price point is stupid if its not the Warthog, unless you're a Black Shark pilot at which point the Logitech G940's FFB makes the trimmer function... amazing, or so I hear.

Track IR is the bees knees and the biggest force multiplier for any simmer, but you can toy with Facetrack noir which I hear can be pretty effective, or you can make a free track. Both are economy solutions as long as you have a webcam with decent resolution and refresh rate.

Also, was reading an article about an E-3 Sentry that crashed at Nellis years ago, and how it turned out it was pilot error. The comment was "Neither the pilot nor co pilot were very experienced in the E-3" and it went on to say that the pilot had something in the range of ONLY ~120 hours in an E-3 while the Co Pilot only had around 300, and they both had over 1200 hours in air force aircraft overall.

So, that should give you an indication of the learning curve in real life. 300 hours isn't experienced in an air frame. Somehow I've managed to learn AAR within my first 50. Its possible to jump the curve, but we have the pleasant advantage of being able to wreck more A-10s in a day than were ever lost since the late 70s.

And like Cookie said, baby steps, one thing at a time. When learning I tended to focus on one topic, figure it out, feel confident, then move on. And dont underestimate the value of review. Its incredible the improvement you see when you take a night or a few days off a topic and come back to it. 2 days without doing an AAR and I managed my first uninterrupted refuel. Was pretty exciting.

but we have the pleasant advantage of being able to wreck more A-10s in a day than were ever lost since the late 70s.

 

My record was 6 in one 2 hour session, trying some low level valley flying before my rig was able to handle the game properly, i stuttered my way into a few mountains lol.

Being danish I doubt they'd even let me get close to one ^^

Just get across the border (your southern one that is) and make a daytrip down to Spangdahlem when they have their next Open House. It´s been quite a few years since I have been there last (they still had the A-10A in fact), but they would let me crawl all over the Hog and I got to get on the nerves of some pilots until I ran out of questions. :D Good times!

To check out dates monitor http://www.spangdahlem.af.mil. Also keep an eye on Bitburg and Ramstein airbases. When those two have an Open House there´s usually a bunch of A-10s there as well, since all three bases are basically next to each other.

Track IR is the next item on my list followed by pedals

I would even wait with the flying bit until you have the TrackIR. Makes it SO much easier, it´s almost unreal.

I would even wait with the flying bit until you have the TrackIR. Makes it SO much easier, it´s almost unreal.

I wouldn't wait. Flying's too good.

Really doubt that I can wait since it won't be till next month, right now I gotta get the game working first ^^