A-A refueling does not fill drop tanks

Also, it seems they carry additional weight to them after A-A refueling with them equipped because landing/taking off vtol even showing only 1300 lbs of fuel with none in drop tanks takes a significant amount of power(I know I have no engine degradation).

Did you check the fuel status on the Right MFD Engine status page?

Yes, they fill if you don't empty them, but if you do empty them then you only fill till 7700ish (I don't remember the exact number, what the harrier holds internally). The MFD shows no fuel gain past the 7700ish. Now if you don't drain them before contact it seems to fuel everything up just fine. However there still seems to be weight gain from invisible fuel that is not actually there leading to the problem I originally stated. This is with inboard tanks, I haven't tried any other variation/placement.

Just tested right now with only inner pylon bags. They never get filled and tanker doesn't stop the transfer. So the system knows that it can fill up more but someone doesn't open the door to the bags. :D

Will check

Had this happen today on 2.2 internals fill up, your told it's still transfering (no transfer complete) but the inner externals never do (haven't tried with outer externals) if they are empty when you plug.

It's like the Fuel system forgets to open the valves.

Also seemed to get really weird after I tried a few times to plug and fill them as well Zeus, like the Aircraft was massively over weight or something even after dropping the externals at full throttle with the nozzels 0 at FL 180 i was struggling to get speed (And the Airbrake was in).

Don't know if the two are related or not.

I had a look through the log up until I crashed because the engine couldn't/wouldn't hold a hover while I was trying to land even with wet (and 1/2 a tank of gas) there is no errors / damage listed either just the Tanker States 4,5,3 and 6 matching either plug, taking, disconnect, filled.

Wait, should drop tanks get filled in A/A refueling? As long as I've known, tactical jet fuel distribution systems have never had the ability to pump fuel into drop tanks.

 

RAZBAM take a good look at this with your SME's before adding a capability that should not exist.

Uhm...everything you posted above is wrong. :doh:

A-10s, F-15s, F-16s and yes the AV-8B transfers fuel to the externals during air refueling.

Here’s a decent post from stackexchange, with a shiny graphic:

The fuel coming in through aerial refueling probe goes into the aircraft fuel tanks just like the ground fueling. The schematic below shows the fuel system of the F-16.

 

F- 16 fuel system; image from f-16.net

 

As can be seen, the aerial refueling system's fuel load goes into the same one as the ground refueling one, through the same lines. Another thing is that in case external fuel tanks are connected, they can be topped up first (they are depressurized once aerial refueling commences and fuel transfer from them stops) before the internal tanks are filled up.

 

The fuel goes to the center-line(fuselage) or the wing tanks, from where it goes into the reservoir tanks, which supplies to the engine, just like 'regular' fuel.

Wait, should drop tanks get filled in A/A refueling? As long as I've known, tactical jet fuel distribution systems have never had the ability to pump fuel into drop tanks.

 

RAZBAM take a good look at this with your SME's before adding a capability that should not exist.

Yes the drop tanks should, just go read the actual natops flight manual, when externals are on the fuel light system changes to only light once they are filled or to flash if one st is filled when you have both on. The tanks use the SAME fuel line system as the ground and ALL modern Aircraft can fill their drop tanks it’s not uncommon for both AV8’s, FA18’s, F15’s and F16’s to tank once their externals are empty on long missions to refill the tanks. Not to mention if the AV8 couldn’t then when the USMC does on station swaps there would be AV8’s basically constantly attached to a tanker the entire way.

As for the other comment on fuel flow, no.. no engine short of afterburning uses more fuel then the Air to Air refueling manifold can supply even on a P&D. The system is specifically designed to pump about 2000 - 6000 pound per minute into the aircraf, most jet turbines are burning that per hour. On average with the fuel being burnt by the Pegasus engine, four tanks and hooking on at about half internals left it should take 10-15 minutes to fill the AV8B back to full load.

It is dependent on speeds of the aircraft at the time of tanking.

At the moment there is a bug in the Harrier either in that it’s not showing we are filling the externals or it’s not filling them and it’s also doing weird things to the FLight Dynamics when you try and refuel with that happening as mentioned.

If you want the natops pages I can hand them to you or in the early access manual just click Air to Air refueling which summarises the natops version.

Strangely enough in release 1.5.8 last night with externals on the inboard pylons they took fuel when air refueling from the KC-130.

I’ll do some more testing tonight or tomorrow.

We’re they empty when you begun?

I managed to catch this particular bug on video.

After the internal tanks fill, the plane takes fuel, (as evidenced by the increased AoA and throttle needed to maintain position with the tanker.) However, the drop tanks never register as "full," and so the plane keeps drinking, and drinking. I have no idea where all that fuel is going, but its mass definitely degrades performance. In one session, the Harrier was able to drink the entire KC-130's payload dry. That just shouldn't be possible.

Worse, this excess fuel does not appear to be burnable by the engine, nor dumped overboard, so it's simply dead weight that you cannot get rid of.

Confirmed on 2.5

Caucassus, Nevada and Normandy

Experienced in Aerobatics multiplayer servers and private multiplayer servers.

Repro steps:

New Harrier

Add "Empty Fuel tanks" on tarmac

Take off

Met with KC-130 for refuel.

Connect and fill up.

External Empty Tanks never fill. They remain empty.

Not tested in Single.

Not tested with other Tankers

Not tested with Full External Tanks that are emptied by normal means (consuming fuel).

It's gonna be a frosty day in the hot place before I can stay in the basket that long ....

I'm lucky if I can stay there more than 15 seconds...

Would be easier if the drogue wouldn't hang too low. Just compare, even if it's a VC-10 tanker there:

The fuel pod is roughly at 5° up, whereas in DCS...

... it's more than 10°. And the VC-10 goes faster. A lot faster, but the drogue doesn't change it's attitude in DCS relative to speed. It's alot harder to align and stay due to the fact you have no hard reference. If you just have to place your left 5 over the pod, it's probably piece of cake.

But of course there are other factors that play a vital role. The lack of "ass gauge" alone is probably the biggest one. In DCS, you feel nothing. Absolutely nothing. There isn't even FFB implemented in case of the Harrier yet. Another is the stick travel. Not everyone has a stick extended, and not everyone hase one that can be extended, and even less have an FFB stick that is extended (probably less than 5 in the whole community). That means the vast majority of us, even when using curves, most probably oversteers constantly. Also the total lack of peripheral vision makes it harder. Most videos I've seen are like 90°-120° FOV probably projected at a screen of ~30° FOV. This is not the real thing, period. I tried it with the 60° I usually fly with and it's virtually impossible because it's a hard fight alone to have the HUD and the wing of the tanker on the screen at the same time alone. I don't even see the rear half of it's fuselage at all. I could increase the FOV angle, but then everything just gets too tiny and weird-looking (fish-eye effect). VR would help, but again, not everone...

Let's wait for the AFC implementation at least

Those who are able to do this, earn my absolute, total and utter respect

Folks, I need to be certain of this:

a. The refueling problem applies to all external tanks, independent of status on flight start, or

b. The refueling problem only applies to the external tanks that are empty at flight start.

The empty tanks is a new feature for ED and bugs can be expected. We need the feedback on this. A saved track would be appreciated.

Thanks.

We've been testing and it looks like something is broken inside DCS and ED is the one called to fix it.

Yesterday I flew the Harrier with two inboard tanks (empty) and about 45% internal fuel (loadout page)

I think my fuel gauge showed about 1800lbs and it got filled up to 7700lbs (TOTAL).

No 'transfer complete' message, I disconnected about 30 seconds after the fuel meter stopped at 7700lbs.

The external tanks did not contain any fuel afterwards, at least according to the display.

I flew for a while until my fuel level allowed for a vertical landing... and dropped like a stone. The external fuels weight was there fore sure

Today I took the Mirage for a ride, and the same problem exists there, too.

- I started with 5% internal fuel and three external fuel tanks (filled)

- The fuel was successfully transfered to the internal tanks (got three RL external tanks empty warning lights and internal fuel level was raised)

- I successfully refueled on a KC-130

- 'Transfer complete', internal tanks filled, but no fuel went into the external tanks

- Double checked and successfully refueled on a Il-78

- 'Transfer complete', internal tanks filled, but no fuel went into the external tanks

- Jettisoned the external tanks and the internal fuel instantly dropped from 3160kg to 50kg.. I had to eject :(

I'm extremely bad at A-10C refueling, but I gave it a try... external fuel tanks and 100% internal fuel.

During the flight only external fuel was used. When I connected to the KC-135 it instantly replied 'Transfer complete',

so I assume it has the same problem (not filling the external tanks during AAR).

Pretty confident that this is a global bug affecting all DCS modules :(

I just made a mission with about 30% internal fuel and added two wing tanks (empty) I made contact with tanker hooked up to tanker and took fuel.The fuel Gauge went to 7700 and stopped but i got no disconnect from tanker so i kept refueling the Aircraft clearly took more and more power to stay connected and gained a very heavy feel to it.The AOA was getting higher and higher until it reached over 13.This was after the latest hotfix to open beta.The bottomless tanks still exist.I didn't save the track but am happy to do it over and save track to post if you need it.

Does it still happen after today's hotfix 3 for dcs 2.5?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3396674

Tanker will be fill external tanks of aircraft

I did the refuel after hotfix 3.It is still a problem.

Harrier Refueling bug post hotfix.trk

We've been testing and it looks like something is broken inside DCS and ED is the one called to fix it.

This is a pretty big deal and a huge issue for this module (and probably even future modules like the Hornet) so hopefully ED is quick to stomp out this particular issue. A big part of the Harrier experience is having to refuel with drop tanks loaded.

Hopefully this is something that ED does not wait to fix.

Any update on this? Empty fuel tanks never get refueled.

2.5.1 still the same

Can you guys please adress this issue for the next Update(s)?

It's a rather important bug to be fixed.

Would definitely appreciate having this issue fixed.