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AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE


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AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE  

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  1. 1. AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE

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I had updated by hardware 5 times and had some activation issues with a module that required re-activation. It's down to 1 activation, another is down to 2 and I really feared I would need to re-buy the modules once.

 

 

I can see that being a problem, but from what I understand modules can be deactivated and restore the activation count. I understand you could have a computer blue screen and be unable to but it shouldn't happen ten times... I remember I got my activation back when they changed it for the mig-21

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I rest my case for today but would hope and recommend that ED communicate clearly, with some technical details, why and how repeated home calls vs one time verification (or on updates as well) significanly help them fight piracy and if possible back that up with some numbers and projections of reduction in pirated copies.

 

If i feel convinced that the occasional reminder and hussle of that repeated verification leads to more resources in the longterm to make DCS an even fuller experience, i might accept the new system. Maybe you could even work out some extended grace period (3 months/6months whatever) that one can be activated in the account section on the ED store website.

 

@Hellfire257 ...exactly my questions as well. How is that gonna help against piracy. I have read the latest Assassin's Creed hast not been cracked as of yet, and this is due to using at least three of the strongest anti-temper protections out there. But afaik not because of repeaed online verification.

 

@159th Viper '' What is important is that this constructive discussion has highlighted a possible solution. Whether it is a feasible solution will depend on the Developers and/or the relevant DRM software utilized.''

 

What possible solution that was discussed here are you referring to?


Edited by sc_neo
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And yet they will drag their computer capable of running DCS around to said places with absolutely no connectivity, either mobile or landline?

 

 

One of my vacation homes is in the woods. I have a well for water, and electricity(mostly solar). Cellular service is spotty at best and depends on the weather.(multiple days without connection, sometimes weeks)

 

My laptop is fully capable of running DCS World at highest settings.Reason I purchased it. At that home, I have a 4K tv used as a monitor, HOTAS Warthog, Rudder Pedals, and Track IR5 that stay there. All I have to do is pack my laptop and go. I stay there for months at a time to get away from the world and enjoy single player time without interruptions of life.

 

That is why it is a vacation. To unplug/disconnect from everything/everyone that is not at that home with me.

 

This initial projection of 3 days will not be satisfactory for my situation.

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie


Edited by MonnieRock

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What possible solution that was discussed here are you referring to?

 

 

 

In regards to my situation where a phone call might get me a key I can enter or a support ticket suspends my modules calling home. I'm willing to make an effort to help ED fight piracy to protect a niche game I love, I just expect that support to be returned.

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One of my vacation homes is in the woods. I have a well for water, and electricity(mostly solar). Cellular service is spotty at best and depends on the weather.(multiple days without connection, sometimes weeks)

 

My laptop is fully capable of running DCS World at highest settings.Reason I purchased it. At that home, I have a 4K tv used as a monitor, HOTAS Warthog, Rudder Pedals, and Track IR5 that stay there. All I have to do is pack my laptop and go. I stay there for months at a time to get away from the world and enjoy single player time without interruptions of life. That is why it is a vacation. To unplug.

 

This initial projection of 3 days will not be satisfactory for my situation.

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie

 

Would two weeks be better for you as well? And understand, you only need a connection long enough to log into DCS servers, then it should be reset, you dont need to run a MP game or anything.

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Whoa this discussion moved a lot since the morning. Originally I thought that the planned change to the copy protection will be a good thing but now I can see some legit concerns too. It will not affect me much, maybe only sometimes but generally not.

 

But seeing how much it concerns other people, I would like to start some real constructive discussion here and listing what is good and what is bad about the proposed system first could move the discussion the right way at last. Hopefully we can move on with some propositions afterwards. :)

 

+ Unification of platforms. One global account will solve this. How often do you see new or even regular DCS players ask about keys from ED shop and Steam and why its not possible to merge them? This problem will be gone. The game can be sold then pretty much anywhere and you will choose the platform you want to download from or the community you are interested in more. Or this is at least how I imagine it, because there are other companies that do the same.

 

+ Key verification, management, transfer... I had my share of problems with the current system, they will most probably be gone. Buying a present for my friend will not be an inconvenience I have to go through. Installing the game again will not put me under stress. Managing authentication across more than one version of the game will be easier. I also read here that it will be much easier for 3rd parties and game testers.

 

- Single player requires internet connection. I know there is plenty of new games that require it too, but with DCS this is a bit off I would say. Mainly due to the map editor and sim pit builders.

  1. Let's say that I'm a sim pit builder, pretend that i want to build Harrier pit and put it somewhere in a basement where I can fly it when it will be released in stable version. I will pretty much want to freeze the installation on such computer to one version for very long time with only harrier activated there. The new system will hamper my desire.
  2. Long term period without internet connection. Either I cannot have connection yet because I'm moving, building a house. I'm on vacation abroad and I cannot have internet connection without expensive fees but I want to play or build missions in editor and test them. Natural disaster will happen but I still want to enjoy DCS :) I'm working in place where internet connection is impossible and I will be in such condition for several months but I still want to enjoy DCS in my spare time... I suppose I could find more examples but you get the point.

 

 

I can understand why ED wants to have the verification in place, to be sure that you are the one who is using the modules, not sharing them with others somehow. But I can see the general concerns about the 3-4 day limit to be valid.

 

Here are my own propositions how it could be solved in a way that it would minimize possible problems that people may have. Each proposition is just a proposition, maybe only some would be good, or all at the same time, I do not know but we have to start somewhere.

 

  • Increase the default limit to one week.
  • Make it possible to extend the offline limit for set amount of days if needed once. Steam works this way if I'm not mistaken but there is a limit.
  • Possibly give an option to create an offline key that will allow me to be offline for set amount of time which I know how long it will be. This would solve the people working in places like ships without internet connection.
  • No updates or multiplayer available while not verified. No access to shop features without verifying. etc.

 

So what do you think? How would you want to approach the subject of new copy protection?

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You don't need a constant internet connection now. Once the module is activated you can unplug your internet and play SP just fine.

Why would you do that? How many people do you think are doing that?

 

I am one that does that. See above post

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie

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Would two weeks be better for you as well? And understand, you only need a connection long enough to log into DCS servers, then it should be reset, you dont need to run a MP game or anything.

 

Sith,

 

I feel 30 calendar days would be acceptable.

 

If no cellular connectivity within 30 days, I would drive to the nearest town for supplies and hook onto a WiFi at a business while resupplying and re-up my DCS. I normally go to a town every 30 days for things I can not hunt,grow,produce,etc.( can not run out of beer) :beer:

 

 

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie.


Edited by MonnieRock

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What possible solution that was discussed here are you referring to?

 

Instances where a consumer can authenticate his modules via a satellite phone, ie call a support helpline.

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Sith,

 

I feel 30 calendar days would be acceptable.

 

If no cellular connectivity within 30 days, I would drive to the nearest town for supplies and hook onto a WiFi at a business while resupplying and re-up my DCS. I normally go to a town every 30 days for things I can not hunt,grow,produce,etc.( can not run out of beer) :beer:

 

 

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie.

 

Thanks for the response. Noted.

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Sith,

 

I feel 30 calendar days would be acceptable.

 

If no cellular connectivity within 30 days, I would drive to the nearest town for supplies and hook onto a WiFi at a business while resupplying and re-up my DCS

 

 

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie.

 

 

30 days probably defeats the purpose of the DRM, but if it could work for ED it could work for me. My average time out of contact is 28 days with 50 being the longest, but rare. The support ticket or key by phone would be the preference for my situation though.

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I would rather vote 3 months or such, but 30 days should overcome most odd situations of moving to a new premises or enduring the hussle of hooking up a phone with mobile interent to verify. Longterm though, there should be a mechanism to allow for longer periods (multiple months) that you can activate via your account in the ED store or something like that. I reckon a compromise can be achieved afterall :)

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How many people have 2 houses, 1 without internet? I mean come on, we need to be a little more realistic here... seriously.

 

I have more than 2 but that is by the by, only one of them has no internet and that is where I am domiciled as it happens.

 

 

I have more than two.

 

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie

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There's also a problem of unavailability of these verification servers. Let's say you start the game after 4 days or more of non playing as you've finally found a free evening from work, school, wife and/or the kids.

 

But, guess what? The servers are down for maintenance or under a DOS attack, etc. and you're stuck. Better luck next time.

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30 days probably defeats the purpose of the DRM, but if it could work for ED it could work for me. My average time out of contact is 28 days with 50 being the longest, but rare. The support ticket or key by phone would be the preference for my situation though.

 

I agree 30 days might be asking a lot, but I can put it up to ED and see what comes back.

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30 days probably defeats the purpose of the DRM, but if it could work for ED it could work for me.

The longer the time span, the easier this system can be exploited.

 

Example: two guys "share" one DCS account. They both log in, refresh their 3 day period, log out, both subsequentially. Now they can play SP in parallel for 3 days. Then they have to go through this hassle again.

 

If the period is now 30 days, they can play a whole month without worrying.

 

If now someone shares his account on "certain" websites and 1000 ppl want to take advantage of it, they will run quickly into problems if they have to syncronize their 3-day-refreshment logins accordingly. But not so much if they had 30 days available.

 

And this got me thinking ... what about a dynamic grace period? Like, the first time you use it, it is max. 30 days. The next grace period refreshment will be shorter, if you used the whole 30 days. For example 10 days. And if you haven't used up the whole 30 days, like for example only 3 days, your next grace period will be again 30 days.

 

Hrm, difficult to explain ... and ofc the actual number of days needs to be adjusted. But does that make at least some sense?

 

edit:

maybe this illustrates the idea better:

If you login every day, you always have a grace period of 30 days ahead of you.

If you login every 30 days, you will gradually run into problems after the first 30 day grace period, because the second one will be shorter. You would probably forced to log in at least after 30, then after 20, then after 10 days again.

There will be a "sweet spot", the amount of days where the next grace period is not yet shorter as X. The above example, where the grace period is 10 days shorter each time, it would be 10 days. So if you log in every 10 days, your first grace period is 30d. After 10 days within the grace period, you log in again. Now your next grace period is 20 days. Again, 10 days later you log in again, then the following grace period is 10 days. And from then on, you are just loggin in when the 10 day grace period is about to run out.

 

This allows for some leeway and buffer for the customers, but should make things reasonable inconvinient for exploiters


Edited by Flagrum
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OK, I'll throw my 2 cents in the fray here aswell.

 

Now I don't know how the "terms and conditions" for all paid content in DCS up until today is formulated. But if it states that the product may change at any time that might limit your ability to use the software without an internet connection (or additional costs in any way really) then there is no need for this argument, really. Then we all already agreed to it.

 

However if the only requirement mentioned is the internet connection requirement once per computer/activation, then I see a freedom removed by ED that I didn't know about at time of purchase. Not cool.

 

Now, for the sake of switching to this new system for modules I buy from now on with knowing that internet connection will be required briefly every 4 days would however be acceptable to me personally. I rarely go offline. Sure I won't like it, cause I will always prefer to be able to use the purchased software how and when I want under any circumstances. But acceptable yes, I would still purchase.

 

A fair solution to me about previously purchased modules when internet connection was required only once per computer/activation, would be that those would only require "phone home" on update.

Honestly though, however this plays out, I'll still be a continuing customer, but I'm going to be a less happy customer if freedoms are removed retroactively/unfairly.


Edited by chrisofsweden

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This is NOT the basis of the contract of purchase I have with ED. Neither for the Harrier or any previous purchase I have made.

 

I have never agreed, in any fashion, that my purchases were subject to anything other than an internet connection for the purposes of verification of said purchase, or multiplayer access.

 

Now this might well be a better system for us users and ED but NOT at the expense of taking my access away to use a module in SP should I not (for any reason whatsoever) have a connection for more than x days.

 

With the greatest respect, I paid for the use and reserve the right to choose If i do this dependant upon an internet connection or not. My choice.

 

I urge ED to come up with a solution for anyone to be able to use purchased modules offline - forever.

 

Regards,

 

Gary

 

Pretty sure this new setup falls foul of the UK Consumer Rights Act 2015 (digital content and services), and as a result, EU wide consumer regulation. As a constructive comment, I would advise ED to check the European legalities before committing to this new setup as you have applied this new rule retrospectively.

Since you are saying you will withdraw service from your consumers if they do not go choose to log in online, when in fact, at the time of purchase; this was not the case, you will almost certainly be in breach of contract.

 

Long time since I studied law in any detail, but I urge legal to check it out re EU consumer regulations.

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Pretty sure this new setup falls foul of the UK Consumer Rights Act 2015 (digital content and services), and as a result, EU wide consumer regulation. As a constructive comment, I would advise ED to check the European legalities before committing to this new setup as you have applied this new rule retrospectively.

Since you are saying you will withdraw service from your consumers if they do not go choose to log in online, when in fact, at the time of purchase; this was not the case, you will almost certainly be in breach of contract.

 

Long time since I studied law in any detail, but I urge legal to check it out re EU consumer regulations.

 

There are games that require permanent internet connection to play. Even in single player. And they are sold in EU. How that differs to what ED wants to do?

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There are games that require permanent internet connection to play. Even in single player. And they are sold in EU. How that differs to what ED wants to do?

 

Because that was a contract term and a technical requirement at the point the contract was made. This is not. It is a change to a contract that the consumer has not been consulted about. As such it is an unfair contract term ( off the top of my head 93/13 eec) and may well be a breach of EU law.

 

I have no axe to grind either way. Feedback was asked for and I played devils advocate. I just want ED to get it right and fair for everyone.


Edited by Tinkickef

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There are games that require permanent internet connection to play. Even in single player. And they are sold in EU. How that differs to what ED wants to do?

 

 

 

I own games that can only be played online, the difference being that I spent that money knowing that. Up until now I bought DCS modules believing I could use them anytime I wish. If DCS uses this method for all future modules fine... I have to decide if its worth my money to use them only when I have semi regular internet access. But changing the terms after the sale? That's a problem.

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