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I can only agree. Although the Video is a bit dated, it told me everything I had to know to understand to use the trim. Can only recommend it. :thumbup:

Ryzen 5800XD - 32GB RAM - Sapphire RX 7900 XTX - VKB Stuff + MFG Crosswind Pedals

Homebase: Southwest Germany 🇩🇪

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I am aware that I am likely not the first person to ask this question, so if anybody could direct me towards an explanation of the trimmer logic I would be very thankful.

 

R-CTRL + enter will show you control inputs, and you will see what the trimmer is doing. This helped a lot when I was learning the shark.

run come save me

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In the special options are 'Default' and 'Central Position Trimmer Mode' identical?

No, with 'Default' you have a very short time where any input from your controller are ignored and you can return it to center. If you didn't manage to return it to center during that time, the helicopter will "jump" to another attitude due to the logical position of the cyclic and your physical controller doesn't coincide.

In 'Central Position Trimmer Mode' your controller is ignored until X and Y axes are centered (also rudder if rudder trim is enabled), no time limits. If you for some reason have a problem to center them you might loose control of the helicopter.

 

The time the inputs are ignored in the 'Default' mode can be adjusted by a small edit of a lua file. If I remember I can check tomorrow which file it is.

Helicopters and Viggen

DCS 1.5.7 and OpenBeta

Win7 Pro 64bit

i7-3820 3.60GHz

P9X79 Pro

32GB

GTX 670 2GB

VG278H + a Dell

PFT Lynx

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No, with 'Default' you have a very short time where any input from your controller are ignored and you can return it to center. If you didn't manage to return it to center during that time, the helicopter will "jump" to another attitude due to the logical position of the cyclic and your physical controller doesn't coincide.

In 'Central Position Trimmer Mode' your controller is ignored until X and Y axes are centered (also rudder if rudder trim is enabled), no time limits. If you for some reason have a problem to center them you might loose control of the helicopter.

 

The time the inputs are ignored in the 'Default' mode can be adjusted by a small edit of a lua file. If I remember I can check tomorrow which file it is.

 

Thanks for the info - In the past I always used the 'Central' mode, yet after a summer break and re-install I discovered I was using the 'Default' mode without noticing anything amiss (aside from rusty technique).

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  • 1 year later...

I have a question about trimming while in Flight Director mode.

 

With FD on I can still trim the plane, and the dampening is still on, but it wont 'pull' me to that trimmed point until I turn Flight Director off. So the 20% force to the controls if OFF at that point and is not 'pulling' me to my trim point. Its just trimming the attitude of the plane.

 

Am I correct in understanding those above points?

 

If I want to have free control, and free yaw while in Flight Director mode, should I still trim the plane periodically or just leave it?

Say I am trimmed for level flight heading 180 degrees and I do a sharp turn and head 0 degrees, should I re-trim or just leave it? This is with FD on.

 

Ive been experimenting with disabling the heading mode too, but it gets wonky. Should I still re-trim then with only pitch and roll dampening on?

X52

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Yes, there is stick force center trim, autopilot capture value, and damping.

 

With FD off captured value drives actual flight to captured values.

With FD on captured value simply displays visual guidance on HUD.

Values and filtering requires channel button lights on.

Stick force center trim works with or without channel button lights.

 

Your choice about free flight and trim. One issue is that you cannot achieve all control positions with stick and rudder input if trim center is not middle. For example if you push rudder fully left, trim, then full right pedal is not possible even with 100% right joystick device input. RCtrl-Enter display shows this more clearly.

 

Usually you must fly with all 3 channels enabled unless there is emergency condition. Flying with FD on is OK and trimming should be common.

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Yes, there is stick force center trim, autopilot capture value, and damping.

 

With FD off captured value drives actual flight to captured values.

With FD on captured value simply displays visual guidance on HUD.

Values and filtering requires channel button lights on.

Stick force center trim works with or without channel button lights.

 

Your choice about free flight and trim. One issue is that you cannot achieve all control positions with stick and rudder input if trim center is not middle. For example if you push rudder fully left, trim, then full right pedal is not possible even with 100% right joystick device input. RCtrl-Enter display shows this more clearly.

 

Usually you must fly with all 3 channels enabled unless there is emergency condition. Flying with FD on is OK and trimming should be common.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I think I mostly get it.

 

I noticed the rudder trim is off by default, and thats how I have been flying (twist stick rudder, no pedals) Thats gives me the control I need with FD ON.

 

With FD OFF, flying in a straight line I seem to be always slipping right just a tiny bit after I trim (because no rudder trim) Is this a huge deal?

X52

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Why don't you activate rudder trim then?

For you with only twist grip, the rudder trim would make it feel better, I believe.

Helicopters and Viggen

DCS 1.5.7 and OpenBeta

Win7 Pro 64bit

i7-3820 3.60GHz

P9X79 Pro

32GB

GTX 670 2GB

VG278H + a Dell

PFT Lynx

TrackIR 5

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Heading hold will retain some authority even with FD enabled, so you wanna use the trim to set the new heading. Also relative wind is gonna change during a turn, so you need to re-trim to account for that.

 

Just use trimmer all the time until the helicopter basically flies smooth by itself. You almost won't notice the trimmer anymore once it becomes second nature.

 

With a twist axis I'd strongly recommend using rudder trim. It's gonna be much easier on your wrist and you'll be able to take your hand off the stick once you're trimmed.

Frederf is right about loosing rudder authority, but I never found it to be an issue.

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Thanks everyone for your input.

 

I get out of control pretty quick like Frederf's example actually, with rudder trim on.

Its my fault but it just seems restrictive, unnatural and something I have to monitor constantly. Its gonna kill me more than enemy SAMs.

 

If I trim my roll ~4 degrees right it seems to counteract the slipping.

 

Is it possible to assign TWO axis' from my X52 to the rudder? Like the stick twist plus a turn knob for fine trim? I know I should just get some pedals.

I have a driving sim setup with the pedals but I dont think those would work.

 

Thx again

X52

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With FD OFF, flying in a straight line I seem to be always slipping right just a tiny bit after I trim (because no rudder trim) Is this a huge deal?

 

Ball not in center doesn't necessarily show a slip. Helicopters naturally "fly crooked" at speed because their lift vector is not on lateral center. You want to minimize beta angle (aerodynamic slip) which might not be at zero bank.

 

Is it possible to assign TWO axis' from my X52 to the rudder?

 

Yes but no. Two axis assignment overwrite each other based on the last to give input. They aren't additive or averaging. You should look into your driving pedal software. They often have a mode which takes the input from both pedals to give a combined single-axis output which should be better for helicopter flying.

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Ball not in center doesn't necessarily show a slip. Helicopters naturally "fly crooked" at speed because their lift vector is not on lateral center. You want to minimize beta angle (aerodynamic slip) which might not be at zero bank.

 

Yes but no. Two axis assignment overwrite each other based on the last to give input. They aren't additive or averaging. You should look into your driving pedal software. They often have a mode which takes the input from both pedals to give a combined single-axis output which should be better for helicopter flying.

 

Thanks again Frederf.

OK I wont worry about the ball so much.

 

I am having no problems flying without the rudder trim right now.

Just wanted to understand more and perfect things.

 

Ill look into those pedals settings too

X52

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  • 5 months later...

I assume I can use this thread for beginner questions :)

 

Is there a master light switch somewhere? (maybe hidden on the collective orso?)

 

I've been searching though the controls and couldn't find it, but maybe I wasn't searching for the correct word. At fence in, it would be nice to be able to switch off all external lights with one switch (as in the A-10C for instance)

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hola acabo de comprar el modulo de Ka50 y no puedo ver los textos de la cabina en ingles, alquien podria decirme que mod tengo que intalar o como puedo hacer que todo se vea en ingles,gracias.

 

This section of the forum is English only...

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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Hola acabo de comprar el modulo de Ka50 y no puedo ver los textos de la cabina en ingles, alquien podria decirme que mod tengo que intalar o como puedo hacer que todo se vea en ingles,gracias.

 

There should be an option to change the cockpit and avionics language in the "Special" tab of the game's options, if memory serves. No mods needed at all. :)

 

There's also a dedicated Spanish forum section.

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  • 2 months later...

Just chiming in to say the Ka-50 is awesome, and I had more fun in VR with it in 30 minutes than everything else combined. It is absolutely fantastic, and imo plays to DCS strengths!

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

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  • 4 weeks later...

Some noob questions.

 

1. How do you know your exact heading? Not the heading you're pointing to but heading you're moving to? Something like Velocity Vector above 50kph?

 

2. Velocity vector goes away in ground attack mode. Is it possible to leave it on?

 

3. When firing rockets with autopilot on, nose pitch up. So when I fire in long salvo, it fires in a line. But with flight director on, nose doesn't pitch up so all rockets land at single point. Is this correct behavior?

 

4. Sometimes, the targeting reticle/piper jumps to incorrect location. And I have to press the lock target again to reset it. Happens with Vikhr, Rockets, and guns. Is this due to 20 second limit on the laser? Really annoying when it happens during a rocket run.

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1. How do you know your exact heading? Not the heading you're pointing to but heading you're moving to? Something like Velocity Vector above 50kph?

 

Looking out the window. :smartass:

 

The velocity vector is great to let you know whether you're drifting. Above 50 kph, that's probably so non-subtle that Kamov designers figured pilots don't need the helper.

 

2. Velocity vector goes away in ground attack mode. Is it possible to leave it on?

 

Not that I know if, and I've always wondered why the HUD would be void of so much crucial information during an attack.

 

3. When firing rockets with autopilot on, nose pitch up. So when I fire in long salvo, it fires in a line. But with flight director on, nose doesn't pitch up so all rockets land at single point. Is this correct behavior?

 

By autopilot, do you mean "Route mode" or just the stability augmentation?

 

In any case, I haven't flown the Black Shark in ages, don't know.

 

4. Sometimes, the targeting reticle/piper jumps to incorrect location. And I have to press the lock target again to reset it. Happens with Vikhr, Rockets, and guns. Is this due to 20 second limit on the laser? Really annoying when it happens during a rocket run.

 

I don't recall this particular problem, but I don't think it has to do with the laser. The laser will provide the system with range information so that targeting becomes a lot more accurate. But I'm not aware of a link between the laser and target locking, the latter being purely about contrast as far as I recall.

 

Do you have a track of this problem (the shorter, the better)?

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By autopilot, do you mean "Route mode" or just the stability augmentation?

 

Both. But you need the stability modes for route mode anyway so I guess the issue is related to stability modes.

 

I don't recall this particular problem, but I don't think it has to do with the laser. The laser will provide the system with range information so that targeting becomes a lot more accurate. But I'm not aware of a link between the laser and target locking, the latter being purely about contrast as far as I recall.

 

Do you have a track of this problem (the shorter, the better)?

 

I will try to make the track but it's pretty obvious. In Shooting Range Instant Mission, lock up the truck column from where you spawned, then fly towards it with rockets armed. You'll find your piper way below your HUD. Then press the lock button again as you get closer and you'll see the piper pop up higher to where it's supposed to be.

 

Or hover near a target and lock it up with Shkval in Cannon mode. Wait few seconds and you'll find the distance to target indicated in Shkval change. And when you fire at this time, you'll miss. Then press lock again and it'll change back to what it's supposed to and cannon rounds will be accurate again.

 

By the way, regarding answer #1, it's related to question 3. When I'm flying towards a column and side slipping even by a little and the nose pitch up, all rockets are fired in angle so I miss the whole column. I can fly straight "enough" but sometimes I want to be perfectly accurate. This also related to how small the blast radius of rockets are. S8 missing a truck by 1 meter doesn't seem to damage the truck.


Edited by Taz1004
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