WW2 era trainer?

I personally would love a Harvard.

 

From a business perspective though it would probably make sense to ensure it could be flown two-up to maximise it's appeal.

 

I 'taught myself' how to fly the TF-51, so it is possible to survive without dedicated trainers, but I would argue that the majority of people would buy it because of it's history and for it's accurate flight/systems modelling (which you don't quite get with FSX).

 

Given your access to the real thing and it's pilots Pman, I would love to see what you can do in DCS!!!

 

RBG

In all honesty, ANY of the WW2 birds we have can be used as trainers. I call bull**** on that claim that the P-51 is too hard for new guys. A year and a half ago, I was one of these guys who had never touched a DCS module before.

 

Before any resources are allocated to trainers, I think the DCS WW2 scene has much higher priorities than WW2 trainers (like bombers, theater, units, and ground attack planes). In the end, a developer has to make money. People will be much more receptive to the idea of forking money for a combat module.

 

Pretty much agree with this. Mustang is very simple to learn to start up, take off, and land with a free trainer. It doesn't get any easier with any of the German planes or future releases.

I'd love to see a Tiger Moth, just because it is the closest we are likely to get to a WWI aircraft. However, I think DCS needs much more than the right aircraft to attract the P3d/FSX/Xplane crowd.

If you want the FSX/X-Plane crowd, the Tiger Moth probably isn't a good pick. I'd say either a Boeing 777 + a North America map or a Maul M7 + Alaska map would be the way to go for that.

 

Hmm, I'd actually pay $5 for an L-4 Grasshopper to putt around the NTTR map with. It's WW2, it's a trainer and I can reskin it in standard Cub Yellow. I do mean $5 though, not $50. It isn't worth anywhere near that to me. And although I previously said I wouldn't buy any WW2 trainers, I might be willing to buy a random non-combat plane (which includes WW2 trainers) just to fly around the Nevada map for $5. But that really is all I'd pay for such aircraft.

 

Edit: I should point out I'd only be interested in those with high fidelity flight models. I wouldn't bother with a SFM plane even if it were free.

Edited October 14, 2015 by King_Hrothgar

Pman, I was ready to jump on the wagon and say "Heck yah! Texan!" But, I have to say it would be worlds better to have flyable combat aircraft. The only way I could see a Texan in DCS is the armed version. Even then, it'll be cut to pieces, and no one would fly it except to say they did.

 

P-47 is already on the way. So's the Spit. That takes care of Allied fighters with some staying power.

 

Need bombers, and a Normandy map.

B-25 flyable, and B-17 AI with working guns.

 

He-111 /110 perhaps.

That they are, some of the nicest guys I've met!

 

And tallest...

 

Pman

 

I would buy a texan, now.

 

Regards:thumbup:

and no one would fly it except to say they did

 

Well I'd definitely fly it a lot, although not necessarily in a WW2 scenario. But the plane has its uses regardless:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan#Combat_use

Well I'd definitely fly it a lot, although not necessarily in a WW2 scenario.

 

Well on January 9, 1942 eight CAC Wirraway (Australian build T-6) took-of against ~100 Japanese planes attacking Rabaul... The result: "Nos Morituri Te Salutamus".

 

But this one shoot down a A6M December 26, 1942 in New Guinea.

 

We're getting 3 jet trainers + a modded one, and those jets are not that hard to fly. Now the WW2 beasts with the tail dragger landing gear, huge torque and limited visibility are killing me, and we got nothing? I hope someone moves to give us a trainer for WW2 birds, this will be the perfect one I think. The Texan!

 

We have no WW2-Trainer? Am I missing something or do we have the TF-51? I thought that's supposed to be a trainer?

Hm, talking about WWII era Trainers ... i'd like to fly an Arado 96 in DCS.

 

Sorry lads aside from the Lancaster from us pending our agreement with the RAF we have no plans for any bombers.

 

Not the large variety anyway, Mosquito is still very much in focus and I've been working on obtaining more reference data on that for work to start sometime next year.

 

It was only a point of curiosity really regarding the Harvard. Once our first wave is done we could do one without too much trouble and might have made a good candidate for twin stick ww2 era.

 

We haven't even started working on terrain yet, we've gathered some reference material but our focus has been on P40 and the aircraft after that.

 

Pman

Of course right now may be there's no point in wasting time in a WWII trainer as we can refly a thousand times until we master a new aircraft, but it would be quite interesting in multicrew play to teach new people and I don't think reducing that people stress in handling a high powered tail dragger is bad so learning curve is less traumatic.

 

 

Anyway, if we could fly a T-6 and/or a Tiger Moth it would be just cool :thumbup:.

 

S!

Hey Pman

 

If you could pull out the Lanc it would be like a dream come true for many people in the WW2 community. But I guess we 're looking into 2017-2018 for that.

 

I don't know what the reason behind the lack of bombers in DCS WW2 is (well at least as it appears in the plans). Maybe it's just too early and we 'll see some in the future. Maybe the fact that they require a lot more work and (presumably will sell less than fighters, therefore financially not the best option. I 've read that most of the buyers play offline, so they wouldn't really be interested in recreating historical missions or scenarios online. This is what the major part of the WW2 community lives for. Online missions.

 

 

But if you look at the most wanted WW2 aircraft poll thread, you 'll see the B17 up there. With multi-crew, the experience would be unparalleled. It would certainly attract some people from FSX who fly commercial heavies for offline playing.

 

In the most wanted medium bombers poll, B25 stands out. Even the presence of a medium would make a drastic change in online playing. And surely, a B25 wouldn't be a lot more difficult to simulate than the Mossie, given that airworthy Mitchells are around, right?

 

I 'm hoping that ED and 3rd parties finally find the way to show some support to their dedicated WW2 community: with a proper map (like Normandy), multiplayer issues fixed, multicrew and a decent bomber, the community numbers will explode. I know of so many people who have shelved DCS because of the lack of these features.

My thoughts are that WW2 is an area I'd like to see covered comprehensively. Trainers are welcome, as well as earlier fighters, and bombers.

 

I would however sooner see you grasp the nettle, and make the Hawk 2 seat capable first. There are thousands of aircraft I'd like to fly, but above all, I'd like to see all the current ones fully implemented. I'd even go as far as to say I'd pay extra for an upgrade to the Hawk if that is needed to finance the extra work involved. Without it, the Hawk will lose out to the L-39C, and also deprive us of the proposed project of the full training career you have mentioned.

Hey Pman

 

If you could pull out the Lanc it would be like a dream come true for many people in the WW2 community. But I guess we 're looking into 2017-2018 for that.

 

I don't know what the reason behind the lack of bombers in DCS WW2 is (well at least as it appears in the plans). Maybe it's just too early and we 'll see some in the future. Maybe the fact that they require a lot more work and (presumably will sell less than fighters, therefore financially not the best option. I 've read that most of the buyers play offline, so they wouldn't really be interested in recreating historical missions or scenarios online. This is what the major part of the WW2 community lives for. Online missions.

 

 

But if you look at the most wanted WW2 aircraft poll thread, you 'll see the B17 up there. With multi-crew, the experience would be unparalleled. It would certainly attract some people from FSX who fly commercial heavies for offline playing.

 

In the most wanted medium bombers poll, B25 stands out. Even the presence of a medium would make a drastic change in online playing. And surely, a B25 wouldn't be a lot more difficult to simulate than the Mossie, given that airworthy Mitchells are around, right?

 

I 'm hoping that ED and 3rd parties finally find the way to show some support to their dedicated WW2 community: with a proper map (like Normandy), multiplayer issues fixed, multi crew and a decent bomber, the community numbers will explode. I know of so many people who have shelved DCS because of the lack of these features.

 

Our lanc will only become reality with consent from the RAF, if we can not make an agreement with them then we will not be doing a Lancaster.

 

Aircraft like the B17 and B25 have no special interest to us I am afraid and do not feature in any of our plans, short or long term.

 

The first Multi engine aircraft from us I currently expect to be the Mosquito. Beyond that there is no commitment from us on others for the time being.

 

Pman

Can you explain why consent is needed from the RAF for the Lancaster please?

 

The B-25 flew with the 2TAF so I don't understand why there is no interest except for NIH.

I agree with SiThSAwN here, from trainer to combat, and please don't forget the combat use of the Texan too, in many conflicts post WW2!

 

And one last thing, how many here like the Korean scenario? will you like to do A-G combat into a Corsair? or a F51 Mustang? Then we need the T6 Mosquito for that workings as a FAC, Will not be fun to fly as a FAc with a par of Bino searching and marking targets for human controlled ground pounders?

 

I also know there are some design concerns with creating an FM for a 4 engine aircraft, so we will see if anyone can pull it off... I hope so, but till then, some nice two engine bombers would work for me....

 

Back on topic... the reason I would like a trainer is the same as I like them for the modern stuff, it would be nice to have a campaign or scenarios that match a similar journey of a real combat pilot... so many games out there have you jump into a fighter and expect you to be a fighter ace right from the get go.

 

I want to experience the training, and working your way up, I think a campaign like that could help even us simmers be better pilots, but thats just my opinion though... too many times I see people with Instant Ace Syndrome... its tougher to pull off in DCS with the complexity of the aircraft, even the WWII birds.

 

Yeah I agree, I think the benefit will come to those who actually want to replicate an aircraft and learn to fly them properly.

 

Flying a progressive campaign I thinkn would be the best way to approach such an aircraft and I may squeeze a T6 in later on in the schedule.

 

Tigermoth would be good as well.

 

We have done some internal testing in theory for Lanc but nothing firm yet, concentrate on the current tranche first :)

 

Can you explain why consent is needed from the RAF for the Lancaster please?

 

The B-25 flew with the 2TAF so I don't understand why there is no interest except for NIH.

 

Its not required but it is an internal criteria I have put on doing a Lanc, there are very few 4 engine bomber pilots around and access to the Battle of Britain flight and aircraft I consider crucial to being able to replicate an aircraft of that complexity.

 

The truth of the matter is that should we not do a Lanc then you probably wont get any 4 engine aircraft out of us within 4-5 years as we have a lot of other aircraft we would rather do instead.

 

But lets not derail the thread with talk of bombers, if you wish to discuss post in our section and I'll respond there.

 

Pman

the combat use of the Texan too, in many conflicts post WW2

 

Exactly why I'd buy it immediately. Bring on those bush war scenarios pronto!

PMan, I think that a well done trainer with dual controls would actually be able to accelerate a new guy's learning curve in DCS. I know that when I first started to try to figure the P-51 out in DCS, I was very pissed off and frustrated very early on. And I am a commercial pilot with around 11,000 hours, and over 400 in my own RV-8 (a tail dragger). If there had been a trainer available that a squadmate could have taken me up in and showed me the ropes, I am sure it would have been much less painfull and a whole lot more fun!!!

 

Please consider it! I would be your first customer. :thumbup:

A good start would be to implement the multicrew feauture for the TF-51. Don't know if the backseat is modeled well enought for that though.

A good start would be to implement the multicrew feauture for the TF-51. Don't know if the backseat is modeled well enough for that though.

Yeah but it would be for a stroll only. The thing is TF model existed as double control trainer, but DCS one doesn't feature a real TF but a civil doubleseater model. Anyway as mentioned earlier it would be helpful for newbies if you can ride along with them even without controlling the plane.

 

S!

I also know there are some design concerns with creating an FM for a 4 engine aircraft, so we will see if anyone can pull it off... I hope so, but till then, some nice two engine bombers would work for me....

 

Back on topic... the reason I would like a trainer is the same as I like them for the modern stuff, it would be nice to have a campaign or scenarios that match a similar journey of a real combat pilot... so many games out there have you jump into a fighter and expect you to be a fighter ace right from the get go.

 

I want to experience the training, and working your way up, I think a campaign like that could help even us simmers be better pilots, but thats just my opinion though... too many times I see people with Instant Ace Syndrome... its tougher to pull off in DCS with the complexity of the aircraft, even the WWII birds.

I could not agree more.

After spending my working life in Longrangers and twin squirrels I would not dare get on a multiplater server for fear of making a total fool of myself.

About the only thing I am capable of shooting down is 4 C-130's with a 109.

 

I have never beaten the Mustang in single player.

 

A campaign like you envisage would be golden!

I have been asked to do a T6 by a few aircraft operators, I have always shunned it as we got alot of flak for doing the Hawk as a trainer and I wasnt sure how much appeal there would be for one.

 

I have access to 5-6 Harvards plus at least 20 pilots.

 

Would you guys want such a module in the future?

 

Same for the Tiger Moth, the amount of aircraft and pilots I have access to is insance, as well as a little time in one myself

 

Pman

 

It would be a huge plus, I'd buy that without any hesitation.

 

Those planes are not easy to fly, nor intuitively easy to fly with efficience, especially in a dogfight. A few items I would love to see:

• standard manoeuvres like taking-off, landing, especially in different conditions: cross-wind, poor visibility / night, scramble
  
• acrobatics, of course :)
  
• dogfight techniques, obviously: approach of different types of enemy airplanes once they are spotted, evasive action, conservation of kinetic / potential energy and avoiding to be forced to the deck, where and when to shoot...
  
• flight in formation, formation split in combat, protecting wingmen or bombers, group take-off and landing
  
• recovering from difficult situations (spins), from different types of failure (engine, rudder/aileron control, ...) or damage to the airplane, how to return to the airfield in such conditions, forced landings
  
• navigation in different conditions, and at night
  
• bombing and spraying ground targets
  

 

I know this could easily become too big a list, but hopefully this could spring a few ideas ;)