Planes visibility and smooth online gameplay in DCS 2.0?

But what is your point? Real World is different than a computer screen? Thanks for the info. :huh:

My point is to show precisely what the difference is. Obviously we all know its different. However it goes a long way towards productive conversation if we have some references to work from. People have already made posts quoting pilots are their spotting stories, so Im giving images that show people exactly what it looks like to support the conversation. Where is your response to others telling them their posts are pointless?

Well i just try to say that if 2.0 will not improve significantly planes visilbility and will not fix online gameplay ( stutters and huge fps drop) i think potential of the game will be wasted. There would be little sense to play in large online servers ( at least 60 people) and realistic settings ( without icons) if these things will be not improved. I think it would be some waste of money also.

As long as it introduces LOD with alpha values starting with a 10% alpha dot at 20nm I'm happy. :D

But its a sim, its not real world, things are going to blend more in a sim, real world things dont change shape and detail base don LODs. But heck you can go to an Airshow and loose sight of a grey aircraft against a blue sky at times... there are other factors that help you pick it up, things like exhaust, light effects, shadows... etc. But its how you make that happen in a sim which is no easy feat...

That is why so many of us want better LOD so that it would simulate visiblity that would be similar to real life. Give more contrast to the textures and improve LOD.

I don't want to bring other games... but I have to if you say that IRL is not a good example. We all have seen it. Other games and programs can do that. I think DCS beeing so complex can do it too.

I think ED can do better than that. And as you can see I am not alone. Many of us demand it as it is crucial for the game play. Not so much for modern jets... but WW2 planes realy need it.

Other games have LOD and Draw distance that is better than DCS. ED needs to step up. I am waiting for EDGE, I realy hope it can help us improve that matter.:robot:

PS. I wrote it so long I didn't get to see that:

ED knows what the issues are, but the fact is you have to start with improving the foundation and build from there... things like the unified exe (no seperate exe for SP and MP) are among the things that will bring improvements...

Thx. Good to hear that they acknowlage it fully and want to work on it. I realy want DCS2 to be the best sim out there

ED knows what the issues are, but the fact is you have to start with improving the foundation and build from there... things like the unified exe (no seperate exe for SP and MP) are among the things that will bring improvements...

Well if they know these issues and they really want to improve it i think there is a future for these game :)

Somebody smarter than me on simulation graphics can explain the "smartscalling system?", this is the solution for spotting at large distances, is not a real thing but is an option. In Falcon 4.0 and BMS this works since 1998, with excellent results.

Funny how my F-16 pilot friend who also flys the P-51 and other war-birds doesn't agree with you. Ive showed him images of DCS on my 2560x1440p monitor and he has told me multiple times that its ludicrously unrealistic. In fact, every pilot Ive consulted as said spotting distances in practically every sim are worse than they are IRL. What is really interesting is that the distance he and his wing would spread from each other is about 2 times the distance I can see a plane in this game.........

Does not effect my opinion or experience at all. As it was pointed out to me, on a computer your hardware makes all the difference in the world.

My experience is based on my experience flying almost everyday and having to spot other aircraft in flight.

In the real world you have to use a proper scan technique and your eye picks up the movement before the detail. That is well reflected in the game and the same scanning I use at work serves me well in DCS.

The huge dots on the horizon found in other games I have tried like IL2 are not realistic and do give the same feel of picking up movement before detail.

At 2 miles according to pilot

Not even close.

Try like a few hundred yards....

Fact is that in DCS actually planes beacome practically invisible above 2 kms.

Mostly now in servers you looks for F5 in external view to see anyone or look for flaks or shooting casue there is not possible to see anyone above 2 km in normal way.

Truly speaking DCS is the worst from most popular sims in planes visiblilty - very far from real spoting aircraft.

I understand that initialy DCS was made for jet fighter with radars so visiblilty was not such imporatant but game changed for WW2 fighters and early jet where spoting enemy from long distance is essensial.

ED need to find any solution to do it better casue now is really crap making these game not possible to use real life tactics ( boom and zoom etc.)

Fact is that in DCS actually planes beacome practically invisible above 2 kms.

 

Mostly now in servers you looks for F5 in external view to see anyone or look for flaks or shooting casue there is not possible to see anyone above 2 km in normal way.

 

Truly speaking DCS is the worst from most popular sims in planes visiblilty - very far from real spoting aircraft.

 

I understand that initialy DCS was made for jet fighter with radars so visiblilty was not such imporatant but game changed for WW2 fighters and early jet where spoting enemy from long distance is essensial.

 

ED need to find any solution to do it better casue now is really crap making these game not possible to use real life tactics ( boom and zoom etc.)

Originally "DCS series" started with Ka-50 Blackshark and A-10C Warthog, both focusing on CAS / ground attack.

There simply was no need to spot planes other than your wingmen, and sometimes even that was difficult enough against cluttered terrain.

When FC3 was merged into DCS they missed a good chance to address these problems, as LockOn, FC, FC2 worked OK for a long time (yep, BVR mostly or close range dogfighting after a while). Not sure if FC2 servers used Labels a lot, but the gfx engine was not different from DCS... so the problems must have existed then, already.

With EDGE coming closer step by step, we may see a better visibility of planes, also. I really hope it does improve the general way the spots and dots are rendered against the sky. It is not really important "how" this improves, as long as it improves at all.

Let's wait and see if it gets addressed in EDGE or not.

There are a lot of suggestions made, already. Give ED a chance to optimize it.

D need to find any solution to do it better casue now is really crap making these game not possible to use real life tactics ( boom and zoom etc.)

You can boom and zoom in DCS.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2313136&postcount=32

The spotting is fine and realistic using a 1920x1080 resolution.

DCS 2.0 is very close. Actually DCS got 2 main issues which affect expecially WW2 planes and early jet fighters:

 

1. Very poor planes visibility expecially at distances above 1.5-2 km when planes dissapeard

 

2. Online stutters and occasionaly huge fps drop.

 

If there sim want to evolve with new planes theathers etc. i would like to know if new engine ( EDGE ) will improve and fix these two main issues?

 

Maby someone got confirmed info about these?

dejavu?

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2334109&postcount=261

Nice to know someone is not only reading my posts, but, that they are rubbing off on them! ;)

Up until the release of the Bf-109K4, I have bought everything and ever addon ED has ever made..

But I stopped at the Bf-109K4

Because IMHO two things have to happen for DCS to support a WWII flight sim

1) Improved graphic wrt spotting bogies

2) Improved network code

I have my fingers crossed that the new EDGE graphics engine will address item 1

But, I fear item 2 will never get address.. I mean it has been 10+ years of warpy online flying with DCS, as far back as the original Lock On.. And no improvement in all that time.

When DCS was a purly modern jet BVR kill sim, it was not so noticeable, but now that DCS is doing WWII and KOREA era, the up close gun kill is going to be the norm, and for that to happen, you have to have smooth network code..

Oh, and before someone tells me to get a better ISP, read again and note I said since the early days of LockOn.. Over that time period I have had 5 or 6 different PCs, lived in two different states of the union, we several different addresses in each, and a different ISP at each one.. And in all those cases the symptom was the same. In English, it is the DCS net code, not my PC, ISP, etc.

If those two things get fixed, I honestly think DCS is in a position to dominate the hard core online flight combat simulation market for years to come.

This, and the lack of rendered and displayed pixels to properly see an object in distance.

 

Proper LoD models only help as much. You can complain about view distance and visibility all you want, but the simple fact is that hardware just isn't there yet.

while true, i think the answer is not:

"well the hardware isnt there yet, so wait another few years until everybody runs 8k 40" displays"

or

"well the hardware inst there yet, so wait another decade until oculus rift 5 runs 8k displays"

while its true that the hardware isnt there yet to what our eyes can perceive, the technique is there to have a workaround for that issue. a subtle and well implemented smart scaling could do wonders i think.

i think, that we should not need to use the zoom function at all to spot and identify other aircraft or objects at the same distances like in real life possible.that should be the goal. and i think, that this wouldnt be too hard to implement nowadays.

dejavu?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2334109&postcount=261

 

Nice to know someone is not only reading my posts, but, that they are rubbing off on them! ;)

 

Up until the release of the Bf-109K4, I have bought everything and ever addon ED has ever made..

 

But I stopped at the Bf-109K4

 

Because IMHO two things have to happen for DCS to support a WWII flight sim

 

1) Improved graphic wrt spotting bogies

2) Improved network code

 

I have my fingers crossed that the new EDGE graphics engine will address item 1

 

But, I fear item 2 will never get address.. I mean it has been 10+ years of warpy online flying with DCS, as far back as the original Lock On.. And no improvement in all that time.

 

When DCS was a purly modern jet BVR kill sim, it was not so noticeable, but now that DCS is doing WWII and KOREA era, the up close gun kill is going to be the norm, and for that to happen, you have to have smooth network code..

 

Oh, and before someone tells me to get a better ISP, read again and note I said since the early days of LockOn.. Over that time period I have had 5 or 6 different PCs, lived in two different states of the union, we several different addresses in each, and a different ISP at each one.. And in all those cases the symptom was the same. In English, it is the DCS net code, not my PC, ISP, etc.

 

If those two things get fixed, I honestly think DCS is in a position to dominate the hard core online flight combat simulation market for years to come.

i think its not sooo much the network code(yes it should be improved as well)

but the main issue with our ww2 aircraft are the tracers.especially the p51 tracers.strangely enough, other tracers dont cause that much trouble.

wags stated i think approximately a year ago, that the tracer issue will be fixed with edge.the problem i see is, that the issue was there since the release of the p51, and edge is still not here and we still dont know when edge will go live. if the issue is not fixed with edge, then this will be a big disappointment.but wags promised it, so i have confidence.

i totally agree with the last sentence.

You can boom and zoom in DCS.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2313136&postcount=32

 

The spotting is fine and realistic using a 1920x1080 resolution.

Spotting should be fine using all resolutions and graphic settings.

while true, i think the answer is not:

"well the hardware isnt there yet, so wait another few years until everybody runs 8k 40" displays"

or

 

"well the hardware inst there yet, so wait another decade until oculus rift 5 runs 8k displays"

 

while its true that the hardware isnt there yet to what our eyes can perceive, the technique is there to have a workaround for that issue. a subtle and well implemented smart scaling could do wonders i think.

 

i think, that we should not need to use the zoom function at all to spot and identify other aircraft or objects at the same distances like in real life possible.that should be the goal. and i think, that this wouldnt be too hard to implement nowadays.

+1

You can boom and zoom in DCS.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2313136&postcount=32

 

The spotting is fine and realistic using a 1920x1080 resolution.

I think Crumpp you just behave sometimes like some harcdore fanboys in BOS forum :P

All beside you got problem with planes visiblilty in DCS. Maby you got other version of game or paranormal skills ;)

No metter most got hope new engine will improve these so we need to wait.

Spotting should be fine using all resolutions and graphic settings.

I agree. That is a technical issue computer guys are going to have work out. Those with huge monitors have an unrealistic advantage over those with smaller resolution.

think Crumpp you just behave sometimes like some harcdore fanboys in BOS forum

Not agreeing with you does not make me a <insert some insulting label> does it?

I don't know the others experience in spotting traffic. I only know my experience.

I also know that other sims in the past did not require the same scanning technique used in flight to spot traffic. That is just a fact.

The big fat dots on the horizon were picked out due to color contrast and not motion.

yeah, i agree with Crump here as well...in the previous sims ive played, it was for the most time just too easy.there was a big black dot visible from exactly x nautical miles, no matter the condition(they all had their shortcomings as well...losing contacts because of broken LODs within a few hundred meters)

in real life it can be very hard to spot other aircraft.and i remember when i had my first flying hours, that i was quite surprised at what close distances aircraft may "appear"...too close to feel confortable thats for sure.and also as he points out, it takes a trained eye to become better in real life.proper scanning is necessary.

still i think spotting is one of the few big issues, which can either destroy a sim, or make it shine above all others.dcs 2.0 would be a good oportunity to make dcs shine even more than it already does.

Is this any good ? XD

Far aircraft is a 1 mile

Yeah but what was the lens of the camera used for taking that photo ? 30mm ? ;)

I agree. That is a technical issue computer guys are going to have work out. Those with huge monitors have an unrealistic advantage over those with smaller resolution.

It's not a matter of "Monitor size" and "Graphic setting", I have a 22 inches monitor and maxed setting and prop planes still disappear past 2km.

^^of course its also a matter of monitor size and even more importantly, graphic settings...when you say you have everything maxed out, i guess you also run MSAA?maybe even 16Q....MSAA makes a huge difference in spotting aircraft.(its worse)