A suggestion regarding control setup for DCS.. - ED Forums
 


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Old 09-14-2013, 11:18 AM   #1
ATAG_Bliss
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Default A suggestion regarding control setup for DCS..

Hi all,

Why is the control setup in DCS the way it is?

To explain a bit further. I own 6 CH devices (FS, PT, PP, TQ, and 2 x MFP) To setup my controls in this sim is an absolute nightmare, and I'll explain what I mean.

Easiest way to explain this is look at virtually any other flight sim out there. Lets say IL2/Clod, there's a HOTAS section for to set all your axis, throttle levers, quadrants etc., virtually anything that has an axis motion goes into the HOTAS section.

But that's just where the difference begins. If I want to set pitch, an axis, in IL2 / Clod I click on the empty box for it and simply move my stick forward/backward and the game sees it and I'm done. Same can be said when setting throttle. I simply click on the emtpy box and move my throttle forward/backward, the sim sees it, and that axis is set.

But in DCS, there are (in my case) 8 different boxes I could click on, all for plane pitch.. With CH products they are labeled as CH Manager Device 1 - CH Manger Device 6. So not only do I have to know out of all 6 of my CH components which one is number 1 through 6, I also have to find out that particular device in the control section (by scrolling sideways), then I can finally click on that particular correct box for pitch to finally set it.

It is soo overly complicated, it's almost to the point of pure frustration. For instance, CH Manager Device 1 actually reads "CH Manager Devic" in the control section of DCS as the rest of the name is cut off. Now multiply for 6 different devices that are all named the same thing (as I see them in the control section) and imagine trying to assign keys that way. Now before anyone says to not use the CH manager, the reason I use it is because if I don't, then windows constantly rearranges the order of my usb devices as I plug more or less in and, in doing that, will completely screw up all my flight sim configurations (IE - CH Device 1 button 13, windows now thinks is CH Device 4 button 13), and therefore in game, won't work. By using the CH manager Device 1 will always be my Flight Stick etc., on down the line, regardless of where I plug and play my usb devices into and windows can't do anything about it, hence, for me, the greatest thing about CH software.

So, I guess, my main question, gripe, concern, is why can't we have the sim automatically pick up on what button or axis I move or press like virtually every other sim does out there? So assigning my controls would be clicking one single empty box and then pressing a key from my mouse, keyboard, CH device 1 through 6 etc., and the sim would recognize what I pressed and simply assign it.

What is going on in the sim now, with regards to controls, takes hours of work to complete a task that should take minutes. I seriously have a notepad out and have manually wrote out, from left to right, what CH device the sim has put left to right and in what order. That's just a cheat sheet to make it faster, but it's still not fast at all because I still have to scroll left and right to get in the right column of controls, and then when the device is not written all the way "CH Manager Devic" instead of CH Manager Device 1 through CH Manager Device 6, it's beyond frustrating to do a task that other sims can do in seconds (find the button you press automatically!).

Can someone honestly explain why the controls are this way? And is there any plans on changing them to a much better, easier, automatic type setup, that other sims have been using for years?

For instance, I can assign the most simple of flight controls axis (pitch, roll, all the trims, throttle, rudder, and toe brakes) in literally 20 seconds in IL246, IL2Clod, ROF, etc., but it took me almost 2 hours to do the same in DCS, because of all the issues and cheat sheets I needed to make above.

The only advantage I see, at all, of having all those extra columns and spaces for every single input device is so you can have 2 buttons that do the same function. But how does that help when I could simply assign two functions within my CH software to do the same thing, completely nullifying the need to have the controls setup in game that way. And I imagine any reputable joystick/hotas manufacturer software could also do the same thing.

From all the stuff the sim has to offer, it's mind blowing that the control section seems like it's 30 years old in design and execution. You guys really need to have a control setup where I can click on one single box (without having to guess what box I need to hit in a column of 8 - in my case) and be able to press what button you want rather it be from my joystick, to throttle quadrant, to keyboard, to mouse, and then the game just assigns it and is done.

Perhaps, if anything, add another column in the control section that is how all the other flight sims do it, that lets it pick up on what button you press automatically. That way those that need all the columns and what not of controls, can still have that method. But from someone used to other flight sims, it's really a complete chore, and a frustrating one at that, to do the simplest part of the flight process, getting ready to even begin to think about flying.

Please, please, please, think about changing the way it works, or at the very least, maybe someone can tell me if I'm missing something. Because setting up the very most basic of flight controls should not be this time consuming. It should be one column that auto detects what you press from any device or axis you use.
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:32 PM   #2
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I agree, It does seem a big old mess. What would probably work better and still allow assigning multiple controls to one function is the method used in ArmA2/3, where selecting the function opens a window where the currently assigned keys/axis are listed and can be deleted/added to.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:02 PM   #3
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Controls are 50% of the game for me. I spend hours and hours fine tutning the controls.
The best we can do I guess is get together.....write out in paper or in digital form, our maps.
Then allow people to download a preset.
I might try this and put something up on my web site or something

I have a Cyborg FLY 5 and I use 5 of the buttons for modifier butons or shift keys.
One for CMS
One for Weapons
One random stuff , aircraft specific
One For autopilot and navigation
One for trim and extended controls.

Last edited by Harrysound; 09-14-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:14 PM   #4
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@Bliss...

You get one column for Throttle, one column for Pedals, one column for Joystick, One for Keyboard, another for Mouse, and then another for Headtracker, and then another for other control devices as detected and a section under each plane type for HOTAS (where "axis" are selectable).
Look at the second item down (highlighted in different colour) in the pulldown for the particular plane type you're trying to assign for.

Not that its that hard (as it does, from memory, seem to be an asked for situation in other sims) but its not a one configuration for all planes... each must be done for each plane you might want to fly - which can be a good thing Its not that bad once you get used to it, only bug is some updates might wipe any ingame assignments made and some cross entry across columns.
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Last edited by Wolf Rider; 09-14-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Rider View Post
@Bliss...

You get one column for Throttle, one column for Pedals, one column for Joystick, One for Keyboard, another for Mouse, and then another for Headtracker, and then another for other control devices as detected and a section under each plane type for HOTAS (where "axis" are selectable).
Look at the second item down (highlighted in different colour) in the pulldown for the particular plane type you're trying to assign for.

Not that its that hard (as it does, from memory, seem to be an asked for situation in other sims) but its not a one configuration for all planes... each must be done for each plane you might want to fly - which can be a good thing Its not that bad once you get used to it, only bug is some updates might wipe any ingame assignments made and some cross entry across columns.
Wolf - Please re-read what I said.

I understand there is a column for all the controls. But when the game lists every single control as the same exact thing (CH Manager Devic x 6 times) instead of rudder pedals, joystick etc., it's a royal PITA.

I also understand different planes require different assignments etc. That's why other sims (and DCS) allow you to have multiple profiles (to have a profile for that particular plane).

But that still doesn't answer the question of why I need 8 columns of controls to assign pitch. I should just be able to click on an empty box, move my joystick, and pitch is assigned. Not have to go figure out which of my 6 identically named columns of "CH Manager Devic" (since it's cut off the rest of the wording) is the device for my joystick, then finally click on that particular column to finally set pitch.

Again, I had to make a cheat sheet just to figure out what device is what in all those columns, and the only way I could even see the rest of the device name horizontally in the column was to highlight it and attempt to delete that row. It would then tell me are you sure you want to delete blah blah "CH Manager Device 3" because all I see in the control section is "CH Manager Devic" as the rest is cutoff.

On top of that, the sim does not even put them in the correct order. The controls go from CH device 3, to CH device 5, etc.,etc., all out of order. Again, no other sim does something like this. And there is absolutely no need for it. Even if, by some chance, there is a valid reason for distinguishing and having all those columns, there still should be a column, like all other flight sims, where you just click on it and hit any button you want from any device you have and the sim "automatically" knows what button you've pressed and sets it for that particular command.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:28 PM   #6
doveman
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I wonder, if ED aren't willing to improve it, whether someone could code a separate app for control setup? The control .lua files are only plain text, so it probably wouldn't be that hard.

There's a program that does that for Falcon BMS, which has an even worse in-game control setup which has prevented me even getting to play that yet.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss View Post
Wolf - Please re-read what I said.

I understand there is a column for all the controls. But when the game lists every single control as the same exact thing (CH Manager Devic x 6 times) instead of rudder pedals, joystick etc., it's a royal PITA.

I also understand different planes require different assignments etc. That's why other sims (and DCS) allow you to have multiple profiles (to have a profile for that particular plane).

But that still doesn't answer the question of why I need 8 columns of controls to assign pitch. I should just be able to click on an empty box, move my joystick, and pitch is assigned. Not have to go figure out which of my 6 identically named columns of "CH Manager Devic" (since it's cut off the rest of the wording) is the device for my joystick, then finally click on that particular column to finally set pitch.

Again, I had to make a cheat sheet just to figure out what device is what in all those columns, and the only way I could even see the rest of the device name horizontally in the column was to highlight it and attempt to delete that row. It would then tell me are you sure you want to delete blah blah "CH Manager Device 3" because all I see in the control section is "CH Manager Devic" as the rest is cutoff.

On top of that, the sim does not even put them in the correct order. The controls go from CH device 3, to CH device 5, etc.,etc., all out of order. Again, no other sim does something like this. And there is absolutely no need for it. Even if, by some chance, there is a valid reason for distinguishing and having all those columns, there still should be a column, like all other flight sims, where you just click on it and hit any button you want from any device you have and the sim "automatically" knows what button you've pressed and sets it for that particular command.
I did read what you said, and the "problem" is not the sim... its the CH Manager.
You can do exactly as you seem to ask, by not using the CH manager and assigning in game, which is the better place to that (I' haven't used CH gear or manager since FSX days, and that was quite a while ago - inaccurate gear and painful manager)... also, I've never had Windows bounce controller ID's around without physically removing and re-connecting them
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Last edited by Wolf Rider; 09-14-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:35 PM   #8
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I spend to set keyboard control again hour and hours too!

Every update becomes a nightmare for me. Every update I wonder if there's any key changing or not - and if I load previous profile it will be OK? and many questions in my head!

Today I downloaded v1.2.6 and all modules. Play the game? Impossible. I'll re-map all keyboard and Saitek for all modules (SU-25T, A-10C, Ka-50, CA, UH-1H) because of only one or two keycommand changed!

Come on ED! You're the people who created this sim. But no handy solution for this?!!!
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Rider View Post
I did read what you said, and the "problem" is not the sim... its the CH Manager.
You can do exactly as you seem to ask, by not using the CH manager and assigning in game... also, I've never had Windows bounce controller ID's around without physically removing and re-connecting them
Uh,.. I don't think you did read it, at least, very well..

CH manager, as I already pointed out, ties my controllers together and also keeps them in order. I plug and play many usb devices on my PC regularly depending on what I'm doing. Windows always changes the order around as, yes, I don't sit there and label all 7 USB ports I use for flight simming so they always go back to the same usb port I took them out of.. Again, that's one of the MANY advantages to CH software..

Again, please just answer this question: Why does the sim need 8 columns of controls (in my case) to setup something as simple as pitch or any other action for that matter? When I can setup any other modern sim just by selecting the box next to the command I want and simply pressing any button on any device and the sim reads it, that's how it should be.

Please stop trying to say my joysticks or the software is the problem when they behave flawlessly in every single other modern sim I fly.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devrim View Post
I spend to set keyboard control again hour and hours too!

Every update becomes a nightmare for me. Every update I wonder if there's any key changing or not - and if I load previous profile it will be OK? and many questions in my head!

Today I downloaded v1.2.6 and all modules. Play the game? Impossible. I'll re-map all keyboard and Saitek for all modules (SU-25T, A-10C, Ka-50, CA, UH-1H) because of only one or two keycommand changed!

Come on ED! You're the people who created this sim. But no handy solution for this?!!!
This is not a problem ED is ignoring, in fact they are very dissatisfied with this situation. However it is going to take ripping out the current system and implementing a totally new system. This is planned, but it isn't trivial and will arrive in conjunction with some other good things for DCS.

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