Screw it. I can't fly this thing.

I dunno. I can't even taxi in this plane. it's ALL OVER the place.

Controls seem to overcompensate regardless of my level of correction. Even when I get lucky and get 'er up in the air before it wants to flip off the runway I have no real control in the air.

I'll maybe play with the control curves but I just thought I'd see if this has ever been more widely experienced here or if I'm just too used to the other DCS modules or relying on my experience with Janes and some of the other oldies.

I dont have this problem. For me, the P51 feels 10x better than I thought it would.

I'll maybe play with the control curves but I just thought I'd see if this has ever been more widely experienced here or if I'm just too used to the other DCS modules or relying on my experience with Janes and some of the other oldies.

I am not the best P-51 pilot so I will leave it to others to give you detailed advice. However, your statement about other DCS modules and older sims is largely on target. You can't compare the P-51 to the A-10 or any FC aircraft, and the older sims just did not have this kind of detailed flight model.

Definitely adjust your curves if you are flying with linear input and a non-FFB stick. If takeoffs are really kicking your but, try using the takeoff assist slider in Options>Special. Rudder curves may also be to your advantage as rudder control is critical during your takeoff roll.

Just don't give up, it is an amazing aircraft to fly.

There are all sorts of things which can be done to help you; however, the most important part is that you need to want it badly enough. An attitude of "screw it" doesn't exactly sound encouraging to me. I understand your frustration (a bad control setup alone could give even a real P-51 pilot fits when trying to figure out a P.C. sim), but none of the virtual flight students I had in the past who stuck it out ever said "screw it" or voiced any similar sentiments about their learning process. At least, not in my presence ...

If you say "screw it", you will be screwed. Its as easy as that :D

As these guys have said, holding the stick aft of center keeps the tail wheel from turning more than just a few degrees. When you need to turn more than it allows during taxi, you can use the left ot right wheel brake.

Keep the stick aft during take off until your speed is high enough to lift the tail. Use the 5 degree right rudder trim setting. You can even take off with the tail down if you are careful enough.

Like many fighters the engine is far more powerful than what is needed for flight. You can take off with the rpms and manifold in the green. You don't need to go full power. This will allow you to hold it on the runway. It will trim better and give you time to fly easy until you're ready for full dogfight power.

Hang in there...

One thing that people tend to forget when using sims is that real aircraft often respond more than adequately with only slight movement of the stick - it sometimes feels more like you're just exerting pressure against the resistance of the stick (which you can feel, and changes dynamically with control surface loading).

The bottom line is that the real aircraft gives a lot more feedback through the stick than a sim does. You've got a small, short throw, no feedback device that, despite all those handicaps, in the DCS: P51 model is set to respond as the real thing does. Also, the real thing (the aircraft) gives you seat of the pants feedback to your inputs. You're working against an artificial handicap, hence the previous advice on adjusting curves. RL is easier frankly, at least in terms of basic flying. It's a lot more intense of course. But just bear in mind you're trying to work through a layer of rubber or something like that, in other words there are more barriers between you and the aircraft than in reality. Hence your feeling of frustration I would imagine.

my advice is just to practice, practice and practice...

i personally wouldnt really recommend any curvature settings to begin with, as long as your devices are working correctly...of course it depends on your stick and input devices in general(throttle, pedals), but if you try and keep practicing, those curvature settigns are redundant, and more of a disadvantage when flying the plane on the edge of a stall(and more important, keep it there).

keep practicing, fly the training tutorials a couple of times and you will soon tame the stang.

With 5° right rudder trim, stick halfway back, 3000rpm and gently increased manifold pressure to 46 HG , the plane takes off itself with only slight left rudder input.

But my guess is, that the "stick back" is the trick that will do it for you. Without it the Mustang doesn't behave well on the ground, more like a crazy horse.

Good points from ARM505, very true but its just something we have to deal with. :) Aura, can you tell us more about your control setup please, and if you have completed the taxi training missions etc? That way we can help you better. If you have rudder pedals with toe brakes, set left and right accordingly in the 'Axis commands' control setup and invert the axis for each in DCS by picking 'Axis tune' . Very important. You may also want to assign something handy on a hotas for 'wheel brake' using both wheel brakes at a time (can be difficult to do with precision using both toe brakes simultaneously...unless you are a perfectly balanced Ninja lol :))

Now you will be able to use differential braking (and be able to brake with one wheel brake at a time to initiate a turn). It is important to keep the control stick aft (towards you) of centre as this engages a partial lock of the tail wheel and will stop you going round in circles (anything forward of centre will unlock the tail wheel completely....useful sometimes if you need to make a large turn).

I keep manifold pressure generally between 15-20 (from memory) when taxing straight depending of fuel loadout etc, applying brakes when building up too much speed; the trick is to use small bursts of throttle power and applying around 50% rudder deflection or more using left or right brakes when turning (which will obviously slow you down) ,then immediately throttling back quickly. Add a short burst of power again when needed, you will get into a throttle rhythm of 'to and fro'. This momentum will allow you to make turns, without going too fast.....and unfortunately the only way to get the knack and to judge your momentum well is to practice, practice, practice. :joystick:

Unlocking the tail wheel completely (stick forward of centre) I'd say is not generally advised at first unless you absolutely need to. If you do, make sure you are sufficiently slow or it will not end well. Use differential braking in desired direction of turn and counter in opposite direction to stop the turn. Again, needs practice.

It is useful to watch the ground or objects as a reference point for how fast you are going, very easy to misjudge in a sim. You are right, it is tricky.....took me about 40 minutes or so to get the hang of it....but pretty soon 'the penny will drop' and you will wonder what all the fuss was about. :thumbup:

Other tips are to use external view when stationary before taxing for an unfamiliar airfield so you can plan your rout......and use the 'S' pattern to align yourself on the taxi centre line properly, and also to see what's ahead of you when required. IRL you'd also have 'ground peeps' helping you out, not so here. :)

At the risk of sounding like one of those dodgy US 'motivational' scam lord speakers with their headsets and 'microphones of truth', you also need to change 'screw it' to I CAN DO IT. :D Unleash your 'Inner Power Panda'. Feed him. Only then will you hear your Inner Power Panda roar. :megalol: Then the taxi force will be 'strong in this one'. Eventually. :thumbup: :D

-Put a curve at least on your rudder input control... In options... Controls... P51Sim... Axis Controls... Rudder... Axis Tune...

I use 35 and a dead zone of 5 so the plane will not jump from side to side at the slightest input.

Obviously is recommended you have rudder pedals... if you are doing the rudder with Z and X keys... is bad lucky :)

- Trim rudder 5-6 degrees... this can be done easy just with the mouse prior to taxing...

- Throttle up slowly and after you start to taxi throttle down so you maintain a controllable speed.

- Align with the runway.

-NO FLAPS!

- Keep the stick in your belly so the tail wheel is locked!! and will sway minimum.

- Throttle up slowly but firmly. Slowly so you won't get thrown by the torque off the runway but firmly so you won't reach take off speed without enough power and stall!!

- Watch what the plane does... it will sway first to right don't compensate too much then it will try to pull left all the way and that's why you put 5-6 degrees of trim... compensate very smoothly for torque and don't forget to keep the stick in your belly!!

-Watch the speed!!! When you get close to 100MPH push the stick to its center position... this will unlock the tail wheel so don't push the rudders like you want to brake them cause you will crash. By now the speed is enough so you can control rudder aerodynamically.

- At around 100MPH the plane will lift itself off the ground... easy on the controls! and don't pull the stick!! Or you will take off with minimum speed and too much angle of attack. That's why you push the stick away from belly.

Remember that the plane sits on the tail so this make the wing have a big angle of attack... that angle is almost maximum angle allowed but when you take off if you have the stick pulled that angle will rapidly increase and the wing will stall... since then not much aerodynamic forces are keeping the plane straight the engine will twist the plane with its enormous torque and you will die... basically :) .

To reduce that danger from the angle of attack you might think to raise the tail wheel first... it's doable but once the tail is up you will need to roll further on the runway so the wing will have enough lift at that smaller angle... but in that time you will still fight the power of the engine that tries to kill you...

So it's better to lift quickly while the tail is still on the ground but without rush. Once airborne level up a bit so you don't climb too fast and stall and say Hurey!! Gear up, trim for level flight (that is less that 5-6 degrees right as in take off) and enjoy the flight... a landing is coming your way. :D

If you fail trying... look where your attention was overloaded and where you forgot or rushed things... then correct them... fail... and repeat...

you will get better. ...and use beers!

You may find this guidance from a real life P51D pilot helpful:

http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=32663

OK - it's for a different sim, but the basic principles remain the same!! :-)

WOW! I was in a bad mood last night (hence the "screw it" comment, which as you figured was not indicative of my intentions at all) but this morning seeing all these posts is encouraging... especially because there's good stuff to learn in EACH of your posts!

Thanks so much guys! I can already see my error... the stick back on take off. Plus, my wingman (who seemed to be flying circles around me with reckless disabandon and the greatest of ease) was just taxiing at full throttle and told me to give 'er gas and use the rudder only.

I'm in no position to dogfight... this beast needs to be broken in ...well, like a mustang! hahah!

Again...thanks for the pointers guys!

Tell me, what is the normal RPM / manifold press you guys use for level non-combat flight?

With 5° right rudder trim, stick halfway back, 3000rpm and gently increased manifold pressure to 46 HG , the plane takes off itself with only slight left rudder input.

Experiment with less rudder trim. If you need left rudder during the takeoff run, then you've gone beyond the amount of useful rudder trim. I was told that the tutorial was made with one of the earliest versions of the P-51 flight model, so that's the origin of the discrepancy.

in the auto start (Windows key + Home) sequence, does it auto trim the rudder?? Or should I manually adjust that afterward?

Man, thats some good pointers... can't wait to try again. :smartass:

Tell me, what is the normal RPM / manifold press you guys use for level non-combat flight?

2700RPM/46" all radiators open waiting for trouble :D

... fail... and repeat...you will get better ...and use beers!

THAT may have actually been my problem! LOL :music_whistling:

I dunno. I can't even taxi in this plane. it's ALL OVER the place.

Controls seem to overcompensate regardless of my level of correction. Even when I get lucky and get 'er up in the air before it wants to flip off the runway I have no real control in the air.

 

I'll maybe play with the control curves but I just thought I'd see if this has ever been more widely experienced here or if I'm just too used to the other DCS modules or relying on my experience with Janes and some of the other oldies.

You need to tell what Controls you use, for all we know you try take of with hotas without reconfiging them.

If you're having trouble taxiing, this video REALLY helped me. I can taxi quite well after watching this, where before... ugh, I was almost ready to punch babies.

yup... slowly beginning to 'get it'.

What I can suggest you is practice, practice, practice ;) I use an old cyborg evo, without forcefeedback, and after some time I can pretty well handle pony without crushing during take off or landing, even in harsh weather with all fuel tanks filled up. With twist handle as rudder control ;) And no curves set :D

I got me a throttle quadrant so I could have precise control over rpm and throttle but that's pretty much enough to fly this baby without much trouble. I gues set of nice pedals will improve flying even more, but that's yet to come.

Safe flying man!