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Old 07-08-2019, 10:40 PM   #691
3WA
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Originally Posted by TripRodriguez View Post
Also I recently saw Russian engineering described as building prototypes until something works

Pretty sure that's what they did with the Ka-50, till they began to understand that it just wouldn't work with one pilot. So they popped an extra seat onto it it, and the Ka-52 was born!


Here's that post I was looking for from S.E. Bulba.


A quick, concise history of the Ka-50 in about 5 points. Says it all.


https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...4&postcount=48


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Old 07-09-2019, 01:47 AM   #692
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Originally Posted by 3WA View Post
(Also I recently saw Russian engineering described as building prototypes until something works) ... Pretty sure that's what they did with the Ka-50, till they began to understand that it just wouldn't work with one pilot. So they popped an extra seat onto it it, and the Ka-52 was born!


Here's that post I was looking for from S.E. Bulba.


A quick, concise history of the Ka-50 in about 5 points. Says it all.


https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...4&postcount=48


x
"till they began to understand that it just wouldn't work with one pilot. So they popped an extra seat onto it it, and the Ka-52 was born"

You've said this many, many times, but it doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's not true.

The Ka-50 was built in low numbers, and there were a few variants, but it wasn't a prototype. That's just a line put forward to justify having a version that never existed.

The Ka-50 won the competition to become the next attack helicopter & there was a small serial production run (some of which are still in service) , but there was no money to buy it. Simple as that.

Look at the projected production run for the Su-57 - anywhere between 'several hundred', and 'only the examples that currently exist', depending on the world price of natural gas.

There are just a couple of what's considered a production run in flight at the moment, but even if they don't build any more, they're not prototypes, and it's not just a stopgap until a new aircraft arrives.

They just have budgetary issues that the West doesn't (it's a country with roughly the population of Great Britain + Germany, trying to keep up with the US on it own. )
The intention was to build a Ka-60 as a group command, and that role was filled by the Ka-29VPNTsU in Chechnya
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:06 AM   #693
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Ka-52 is the dumbed down version for people who can't drive and shoot at the same time. =P The seats are side by side because the Ka-52 was built for hand holding!

Laughed so hard, made my day!


Who needs a Ka-52 when you can have man Ka-50s instead? Hold my beer!


Got more to do in a single seat Hornet where I can only set up a lot of things in midair while in the Shark I'd hav plenty of time to play some Tbris enroute


And compared to the A-10C, the workload in the Shark is a walk in the park...


Design decisions, as usual.
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Old 07-09-2019, 05:13 AM   #694
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Got more to do in a single seat Hornet where I can only set up a lot of things in midair while in the Shark I'd hav plenty of time to play some Tbris enroute


And compared to the A-10C, the workload in the Shark is a walk in the park...


Agree, but those jets aren't flying 5 feet above the ground, trying to keep cover with the treeline, or ruined buildings, and watching frantically for enemy ground troops.


However, I think cup holder should definitely be added to the list of items players want! That and MLP skins!

Last edited by 3WA; 07-09-2019 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:59 AM   #695
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To keep a safe distance from a tree you keep covering you must be focused driving the chopper. At the same time targeting job no way with Ka-50...

They still can make a good single driving but with more sensors. Only to safe a pilot...? Probably doesn’t worth it. It is not a WWII plane then was easier make a plane than teach a good pilot.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:04 AM   #696
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Eldur I'm glad someone enjoyed that comment. =D
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:20 AM   #697
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Originally Posted by 3WA View Post

Here's that post I was looking for from S.E. Bulba.


A quick, concise history of the Ka-50 in about 5 points. Says it all.


https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...4&postcount=48


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But.... that post neither states nor implies that all Ka-50 helicopters built were prototypes... nothing there contradicts anything I said.

The fact that it became obsolete before many were built changes nothing about its operational status in the mid to late 90's.
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:10 AM   #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripRodriguez View Post
… The Ka-50 only barely went beyond a prototype, but it did go beyond a prototype. Ka-50 was authorized for active duty in 1995. Initially 12 PRODUCTION copies were built…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weta43 View Post
… The Ka-50 was built in low numbers, and there were a few variants, but it wasn't a prototype. That's just a line put forward to justify having a version that never existed.

The Ka-50 won the competition to become the next attack helicopter & there was a small serial production run (some of which are still in service) , but there was no money to buy it. Simple as that…
This is a correct understanding of the real situation.

But to argue with people is sometimes useless, unfortunately, because everyone sees only what he wants to see.
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Это правильное понимание реальной ситуации.

Но спорить с людьми иногда бывает бесполезно, к сожалению, ибо каждый видит лишь то, что хочет видеть.
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:18 AM   #699
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My understanding was the Ka-50 was designed during the 80s as a dedicated high tech anti-tank unit for the battlefields of Europe and the NATO.... ummm... blue tide???

Anyway, it was in the process of entering production, but like the Kuznetsov and Yak-141, and multiple other projects the whole 'country disintegrating' thing killed it. The threat was no longer NATO tanks but economic instability. Some projects like Kuznetsov languished behind schedule for many years before being (kind of) completed, others like the Kamov and Yak simply died.

My understanding of things was not as simple as 'Ka-50 not good, canceled in favor of'. It was 'not enough money to go around' and 'no need for a specialised AT helo' so when the economy began recovering they opted for a more multi-role/flexible design with the 52, phasing in the Havoc, and using Hinds as beaters. I believe the ORIGINAL plan was for Ka-52s to act as command/scout helos and 50s to get in and do the dirty work in mixed flights.
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Old 07-09-2019, 12:07 PM   #700
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My understanding of things was not as simple as 'Ka-50 not good, canceled in favor of'. It was 'not enough money to go around' and 'no need for a specialised AT helo' so when the economy began recovering they opted for a more multi-role/flexible design with the 52, phasing in the Havoc, and using Hinds as beaters. I believe the ORIGINAL plan was for Ka-52s to act as command/scout helos and 50s to get in and do the dirty work in mixed flights.
I don't think Ka-52 was in any plans back then (some earlier post mentions a completely different helicopter intended for that role - the Ka-60 which I guess was never developed in that form).

The Ka-50 was eventually authorized for operational service in the Russian Army (mid-90's), but luckily they didn't have money to produce it. I say luckily, because by that time it was obvious that a more sophisticated and a night-capable version was needed and testing of the Ka-50N showed that two-man crew was preferable for night ops, so Kamov decided to develop the Ka-52 on its own.

IIRC, in late 90's the Russian Army chose the Mi-28N for the gunship role, but later on the Ka-52 was chosen by the special forces as their preferred support helicopter.
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