Modified files in CoreMods......MODS are no longer supported?!

As Harker and others have stated there are many examples of where mods simply WILL NOT WORK when run from saved games. Take the JTAC coordinates mod for example. Originally it was all installed into the main folder, it consists of sound files and a modified NATO.lua under the scripts\speech folder. When the sound files were encrypted a work around was found for the sound portion, they can be contained under saved games but the NATO.lua file will not work from saved games. It will only work in the main folder.

This is the same problem we now face. And as stated if they expand this lock down to include any of the files/folders in main folder then yep, that's it, mods are dead. Their way or the highway. I played Falcon BMS for years. I can reinstall it.

If there is a way around this....awesome, what is it? Folks keep saying that you can't or shouldn't mod anything in the main folder. Fine. How do you get these things to work in the saved games folder?

Also pointed out, they have IC, so you can't join a MP game with modded files. That means these mods are primarily for people who play offline in single player. Why do they care what I do with my copy of the game that I paid for on my own machine? It doesn't affect anyone else. And if people have enough knowledge to mod the game, they *should* have enough knowledge to know to check there first if they're having problems. That might not always be the case and world is full of 1D10T form recipients. Never the less, this change, if intentional, should have been clearly documented and communicated.

Again, all of this is my opinion and you know what they say about those. Your millage may vary.

there you have it...

No commercial reasons at all. Only technical ones.

The sim foundation heavily changes between major releases. Sometimes even basic math libraries get changes which are not binary compatible with the previous code.

So you can't just take a module from 2.5.6 and put it into 2.5.5 simply because the older release does not have the necessary facilities.

__________________

Dmitry S. Baikov @ Eagle Dynamics

First LP out NOW at http://c0ff.bandcamp.com (Melodic electronics IDM)

Well Thnak GOD I didnt buy FC3, teh only use is for being able to use MOD planes.. Now I guess I will never buy it...

@ Baco,

Most of those mods, if not all, are installed under your saved games folder and are not affected by this change. They will still work.

So far, its only changes to files contained in the CoreMods folder of your main install that result in issues with mods.

there you have it...

Was that a PM? I didn't see that post. And changes to the LUA files can certainly cause issues if folks try to drop an old mod version into a new release. Sure, we know that. That's when the mods get updated to work in the current OB again.

To perform an IC on the files and if failed, deactivate the mod though? Just the LUA files? That doesn't hold water for me. Saying that there are changes in the back end, so we're not going to let you mod these anymore....

My biggest problem is, that small mods that fix stuff that should be within the basegame (like the ability to spawn clients anywhere on the ground, the above mentioned jtac mod or the coalition-modification mod by grimes), are now impossible.

If ED blocks the ability to fix them on our own, these things need to be implemented into the basegame, because many people rely on these mods.

Was that a PM? I didn't see that post. And changes to the LUA files can certainly cause issues if folks try to drop an old mod version into a new release. Sure, we know that. That's when the mods get updated to work in the current OB again.

 

To perform an IC on the files and if failed, deactivate the mod though? Just the LUA files? That doesn't hold water for me. Saying that there are changes in the back end, so we're not going to let you mod these anymore....

I'm guessing their crash log inbox is flooded with mod errors and it makes it impossible to sort out real crash logs from user error ones.

On one hand we complain they take forever to fix things, but 10 to 1 they have tons of erroneous crash logs to sort through.

Was that a PM? I didn't see that post. And changes to the LUA files can certainly cause issues if folks try to drop an old mod version into a new release. Sure, we know that. That's when the mods get updated to work in the current OB again.

 

To perform an IC on the files and if failed, deactivate the mod though? Just the LUA files? That doesn't hold water for me. Saying that there are changes in the back end, so we're not going to let you mod these anymore....

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4341965&postcount=38

So I guess that's it then. No communication in advance, no suggested work around or compromise, no consideration of a large portion of their customer base.

Ok....cool, good to know what you think of the mod community. Thank you for clearing that up.

So I guess that's it then. No communication in advance, no suggested work around or compromise, no consideration of a large portion of their customer base.

 

Ok....cool, good to know what you think of the mod community. Thank you for clearing that up.

They've always made it crystal clear that all mods would be unsupported, in every way.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4341965&postcount=38

you quote this post and when you only see this post is might seem related to the mods, but if you look at the post in the context of the thread it is in, it is not related to modding files, but it is about implementing the jf-17 in dcs 2.5.5, so nothing to do with this thread here.

I guess there's definitely a miscommunication.

We 100% do support modding and plan to support it in foreseeable future.

 

However, we do not support changing the stock game files.

In some cases we even prevent this, when it is related to copy protection.

In most cases we just don't guarantee that mods which alter the install folder will continue to work after an update.

 

All user mods should go into Saved Games folder.

If some mods are not currently possible this way, please, tell us what do you want to achieve with your mod and we will consider adding the support.

 

So, if you have any specific requests, please submit them in a structured way.

 

Thank you.

Okay, then I start with three requests:

Could you somehow create the ability to add custom weapons or pylons to aircraft via the safedgames route, so it is possible to add smoke to pylons, or things like antennas and stuff?

Could you add the option to spawn client aircraft anywhere on the ground just like helicopters already can? This is important for many squadrons, airshows and online servers?

Could you implement the mod by grimes to change the members of a coalition after you have created your mission?

These three things were all solved by small but improtant mod and the second and third one are in my opinion things that should have been in the base games for years since the mods existed already when I joined this community a few years ago and there were multiple requests to add them to the basegame.

I guess there's definitely a miscommunication.

We 100% do support modding and plan to support it in foreseeable future.

 

However, we do not support changing the stock game files.

In some cases we even prevent this, when it is related to copy protection.

In most cases we just don't guarantee that mods which alter the install folder will continue to work after an update.

 

All user mods should go into Saved Games folder.

If some mods are not currently possible this way, please, tell us what do you want to achieve with your mod and we will consider adding the support.

 

So, if you have any specific requests, please submit them in a structured way.

 

Thank you.

Thank you C0ff VERY much for your reply. That's not being sarcastic, that's genuine. I truly appreciate your offer to help. I'll apologize for the tone of my posts publicly here as I've been very frustrated by this change.

As to your offer of assistance, I'd be more than happy to provide details or submit a request in a structured manner. What would be the best course of action?

In short though, the issue we're facing is the inability of DCS to recognize LUA files in the saved games folder and have those files take precedent over the LUA files in the main install folder. We understand that any such files would not be guaranteed to be compatible with a new release and may require updates or changes, but if they worked in that manner then modding would be able to continue unhindered.

I posted an example earlier of editing the F/A-18C.lua file to use the ammo types from the F-16C. If you place a modded file into the CoreMods\aircraft\F18 path of saved games and you have the stock file in the main install, the modded file is ignored and no changes are made.

If LUA support were extended to the saved games folder than I don't see any reason off the top of my head why ALL mods couldn't be run from Saved Games as recommend.

Thank you!

Thank you C0ff VERY much for your reply. That's not being sarcastic, that's genuine. I truly appreciate your offer to help. I'll apologize for the tone of my posts publicly here as I've been very frustrated by this change.

 

As to your offer of assistance, I'd be more than happy to provide details or submit a request in a structured manner. What would be the best course of action?

 

In short though, the issue we're facing is the inability of DCS to recognize LUA files in the saved games folder and have those files take precedent over the LUA files in the main install folder. We understand that any such files would not be guaranteed to be compatible with a new release and may require updates or changes, but if they worked in that manner then modding would be able to continue unhindered.

 

I posted an example earlier of editing the F/A-18C.lua file to use the ammo types from the F-16C. If you place a modded file into the CoreMods\aircraft\F18 path of saved games and you have the stock file in the main install, the modded file is ignored and no changes are made.

 

If LUA support were extended to the saved games folder than I don't see any reason off the top of my head why ALL mods couldn't be run from Saved Games as recommend.

 

Thank you!

This 1000%

We only started modding items in the CoreMods section because of this reason - it was the only accessible area that worked.

If this doesn't affect Integrity Checking, I don't see why this would be an issue, especially if it allows ED to secure their code for this new cracked copy floating around.

You know, just spitballing here, but say that LUA support were extended to saved games. But...there's an IC concern. Could there be a setting server side to force the use of stock files then vs. Saved Games? And have that option be up to the server admin?

c0ff maybe I am just being dopey, but I am thinking that we might be talking past one another here. The issue is that any mod made under Core Mods disables the module moded as it does not pass the IC. Was this intended by ED? I know that ED does not support modifying the core game and this is entirely understandable. Some time ago, maybe two or three years ago, we had a similar situation where any mod made to the game would not pass IC (I am exclusively talking SP here) and this was changed to where you could have mods again. So, at a risk of sounding repetitive, has ED made a decision not to allow mods within Core Mods?

yeah, this is very frustrating. Ihad a number of personal mods to tweak stuff to my personal taste that are now useless...

So far my future plans for DCS look like this: go openbeta 2.5.6.47404 -> activate offline mode -> end of line.

So far my future plans for DCS look like this: go openbeta 2.5.6.47404 -> activate offline mode -> end of line.

Well, I've rolled back for now as well, but I'm hopeful of a long-term solution here that will be to everyone's satisfaction.

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

E.D. :

You wouldn't do as we asked, so we've stopped you modifying core mod files, you can now only modify files in the saved game tree.

Users :

This is terrible - you didn't give us any warning, there's no communication, we can't do what we want to do !!!

We'll never play your game again !!!

E.D. are tyrants !!!

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

 

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

 

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

 

E.D. :

You wouldn't do as we asked, so we've stopped you modifying core mod files, you can now only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

This is terrible - you didn't give us any warning, there's no communication, we can't do what we want to do !!!

We'll never play your game again !!!

E.D. are tyrants !!!

If you show us the way to add smoke to aircraft that don't have it, or to spawn aircraft on the ground like helicopters, or how to change to which coalition a country in a mission belongs after having created it, then I will happily use these mods in the saved games folder.

I have converted every mod I could to the saved games areas, but these things are not possible from the saved games area but especially the second one is extremely important for our squadron operations.

The modding community just needs to work together on this, that's all. I'm sure the solution is there, it just needs to be worked out

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

 

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

 

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

 

E.D. :

You wouldn't do as we asked, so we've stopped you modifying core mod files, you can now only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

This is terrible - you didn't give us any warning, there's no communication, we can't do what we want to do !!!

We'll never play your game again !!!

E.D. are tyrants !!!

Well....that's not what's happening here. And if you had read any of the previous posts before you posted this, you'd know that. Never the less, thank you for your input.

I guess there's definitely a miscommunication.

We 100% do support modding and plan to support it in foreseeable future.

 

However, we do not support changing the stock game files.

In some cases we even prevent this, when it is related to copy protection.

In most cases we just don't guarantee that mods which alter the install folder will continue to work after an update.

 

All user mods should go into Saved Games folder.

If some mods are not currently possible this way, please, tell us what do you want to achieve with your mod and we will consider adding the support.

 

So, if you have any specific requests, please submit them in a structured way.

 

Thank you.

Thank you for clarifying. I use Blue Angels mod just because it add an option to stow/unstow the boarding ladder in the F-18 Hornet, it may sound a little detail but believe me, it improves my VR experience. I must use the Ovgme because it changes the F-18 lua file. Now no longer works, and you explained why and i understand it, but if this could be done by default there is no need for me, or anyone else, to use this mod just to stow the boarding ladder for example. It´s possible to ED make this default please?

Thank you and i wish you the best,

F.

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

 

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

 

E.D. :

We're asking you not to modify core mod files, only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

We don't care if you've asked us not to do it, we want to do it, so we're going to do it.

 

E.D. :

You wouldn't do as we asked, so we've stopped you modifying core mod files, you can now only modify files in the saved game tree.

 

Users :

This is terrible - you didn't give us any warning, there's no communication, we can't do what we want to do !!!

We'll never play your game again !!!

E.D. are tyrants !!!

Wow. Not even close.

Regardless: Eagle Dynamics what is going to happen now that this change has occurred? Can better support be implemented for the savedgames/mods route with similar capability? If so, what kind of timeline would it take?