T1600M vs CH Fighterstick/Combatstick

I´m torn between these two. I´ll be getting the CH throttle and Logitech/Saitek rudder pedals but no idea which joystick to go for.

The CH ones are supposedly of excellent quality and the Thrustmaster joystick is knows for its superior precision. The T1600M is much cheaper, at least in the store I´m looking in. Are there any other differences ? I´m planning to fly mainly in DCS and everything from WW2 planes to helicopters to modern jets.

Get the T16000m. I have read that the CH has gone down in quality a lot. I own the T16000m and it is a great stick, nothing beats it at that price point. It lack buttons in the grip, but you can use modifiers to get more use of them.

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Having used both, I say CH Fighterstick.

I did get a used one off Ebay, but trust me, you will want the buttons and hats it has if you are flying a modern jet.

And the lower precision? More than enough unless you are floor mounting it and extending the joystick shaft. Went from barely making carrier landings with a thrustmaster hotas x to nailing them with the ch fighterstick. Made a huge difference.

Dude, the Hotas X is NOT the T16000m. The T16000m has the same hall sensors as the warthog.

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If you are WW2 flier or helicopter flier, get the Thrustmaster. You get smoother operation, after small modifications you can do:

I tried to find the another video where a owner modified the stick just by changing the creace in it. It dampened seriously the stick movement so it didn't bounce anymore at all, but it smoothly returned to center and slowly. But couldn't find that.

The big difference between CH and TM is that with CH stick you have to centering axis because gimbal design. It is OK feeling when you need to control in one axis as you have accurate control for the one axis control, like pitch alone when landing. But if you need to start to perform two axis inputs around the center part, then it can become little annoying. And each time you move cross the axis centers, you will feel the springs switching sides.

But if you are at all for modern aircrafts, get the CH stick. The buttons amount does make the difference.

I own the both, and I am not so happy for the TM.16000. Neither I am for the CH. Why? Because I come from the Logitech G940 that is discontinued. That stick had a FF (Force Feedback) and it was totally free from any gimbals etc. So if you wanted, you got that stick to be totally free to move without any resistance or centering etc. I as well used a while the Thrustmaster WH stick and I was fairly unpleased for it. Much nicer many ways than TM16000, but not like G940 was. I do miss the throttle in WH HOTAS what was main reason for it.

But now I am on another stick and I have kept CH as a secondary setup stick. While ago I purchased the CH throttle too to complete that set, and I am fairly happy for that combo as a desk use. I am still considering to extend that CH stick by a 15-20 cm, but I am little doubt about the axis throw become way too big. Resolution doesn't really get affected as you just get more control for it as you have 255 steps instead over 16k that TM16000 does offer. But you don't need such resolution really in most cases, you want that extension more likely.

My main negativity toward the CH is simply its shape. The grip base would need slight extension so your palm doesn't slip off. And the grip is fairly square and the thumb hat extension can start hurting after longer sessions. But it is nothing like the TM16000 one that is just so awkward to use as it is both handed by design.

So if I would need to choose again between those two, I would go to CH. No question really. But I don't fly only UH-1H or Mi-8MTv2 or WW2 birds, so I need the extra hats.

T16000M absolutely.:D

No regrets!!! I fly this two years now. Same sensors inside as the Warthog.

this one: https://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-2960773-T16000M-Joystick-Black/dp/B01MQEDEEW

I've found this t16000 mod on thingiverse: It needs some screws, some brass inserts for plastic, an aluminium tube and some 3d printed parts. It could be a useful mod for flying helis, but I fear of breaking the stick, cause the modding process Is not so clearly explained, and it's in french. Has anyone tried It?

Mod

VERY happy with the CH products here.

Dude, the Hotas X is NOT the T16000m. The T16000m has the same hall sensors as the warthog.

 

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I know, I've flown with the HotasX, T.16000, and the CH Fighterstick.

I would say I flew similarly on the T.16000 and CH Fighterstick, but the T.16000 has an absolutely abysmal button layout for use in a modern fighter. If paired with the TWCS throttle you get the hats you need, but he's already stated he has the CH Throttle.

Being able to access the controls you need more than makes up the resolution differences, and if you keep the CH stick on it's base (and no extenders) the resolution is more than enough to fly with precision.

Yes, if you use the base buttons you have the same number of buttons on each, I'm aware, that's why the CH mod onto the T.16000 works...but they don't make sense in flight. "Oh, I need to get my Sidewinder, let me see, that's the right most button on the top row of the base buttons" doesn't make nearly as much sense as "Weapon select hat right" Ditto for the sensor control switch.

Neither T.16000 or CH, but for an price in betweenVKB Gladiator. ;)

Their only "con" is a very awkward HAT switch - disguised as a button.

Anyway, if you have DIY skill get T.1600M and an used CH Combatstick/Fighterstick from eBay - can be old gameport version, you want only their grip.

Then install this grip in place of T.16000M grip, you have a 10/16 buttons* +POV HAT grip, with "pinky" button in place of 4 buttons + POV HAT grip.

*Will migrate some of base buttons connections for grip.

On simple side, just by install a "pinky" button in T.16000M - easy to do, you get better functionability.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2015/post-683-0-56808800-1439970591.jpg

hi, just one month ago, I had the same dilema.

I went for the CH Fighterstick and the TWCS from Thrustmaster. (both new at amazon).

To be honest, I could not be more happy with the CH fighterstick. I use it exclusively in the mapped mode using its accompanying CH-software and have made the programming with the 3 modes to have as many buttons available to avoid keyboard usage during VR sessions. Currently have mappings for the FC3 aircraft, Mirage2000, F-14 and F-5

In fact, just for comparing I have tried to dogfight again using my old Logitech 3D and I discover that I have much better results for maneuvering with the CH than with any of my old controllers.

I decided to go with the TWCS to avoid buying separate rudders. The TWCS is good enough but already feels like the grease to allow for smooth operation is wearing out. But it is still ok.

With DCS I have programmed one shift key in the TWCS and another in the CH and it allows me great flexibility to do anything without need for keyboard.

I'll be happy to share my DCS, CH and TWCS mappings if you need them because there is a learning curve to master them.

regards

Yup!! CH all the way

Marc..

Another happy CH camper . Been using them for 25 years-and on my second set !

Decisions, decisions.

I know that I will, at some point, buy a couple of modern jets so I might end up needing those extra axis and buttons on the CH. On the other hand, I don't plan to fly in VR for the next at least 2 years so I guess it wouldn't be that big of a deal to have some more commands assigned to the keyboard.

The CH stick is 2 times more expensive where I'm looking so is it really 2 times better ?

Especially this:

The big difference between CH and TM is that with CH stick you have to centering axis because gimbal design. It is OK feeling when you need to control in one axis as you have accurate control for the one axis control, like pitch alone when landing. But if you need to start to perform two axis inputs around the center part, then it can become little annoying. And each time you move cross the axis centers, you will feel the springs switching sides.

And this

My main negativity toward the CH is simply its shape. The grip base would need slight extension so your palm doesn't slip off. And the grip is fairly square and the thumb hat extension can start hurting after longer sessions.

Could some CH Fighterstick owners comment on these two issues ?

The CH stick is 2 times more expensive where I'm looking so is it really 2 times better ?

Very subjective, but the better functionality of Fighterstick worth much of the price difference.

Is 16 buttons on grip (plus POV HAT) - with a convenient "pinky" button for use as "shift" for other buttons/HAT's.

T.16000M have the same amount of buttons (16+POV HAT), but only 4 buttons in grip, without "pinky" button and 6 buttons on base are in wrong side - right (or left for left-handed), what result less functional, specially if use as part of HOTAS, why I suggest the "frankenstick" mod with used CH grip.

T.16000M major 'plus' is use contactless sensor in main axes (X/Y), and cost less.

FighterStick major 'con' is use the same electronics since 1999 (8 bits).

Their "spikes" issue is illustrated there:

And the mechanical "deadzone" at end or axis movement illustrated there:

The axes separation is illustrated by this picture - CH gimbal work similar to EvenStrain Cougar gimbal:

https://i.imgur.com/OcIhdJC.jpg

But this separation of axes have a penalty in CH gimbal, a very tactile and audible "clunk" in center position.

And this

My main negativity toward the CH is simply its shape. The grip base would need slight extension so your palm doesn't slip off. And the grip is fairly square and the thumb hat extension can start hurting after longer sessions.

Depends on your hand size, if is small has this suggested "finger mod": :D

Or this radical "cut and glue" shrink:

Or "cheap and dirt" palm rest mod's:

I make this "beautiful" ;) removable piece for CombatStick and FighterStick, with Eppoxy put, latter was painted (don't find the picture):

Someone's creative here :D

Thanks for all the info guys. It's really helpful. Based on what I learned here and from some other places I think I'll go for the T1600M stick for the ultimate precision and combine it with the CH throttle since it has lots of buttons and hats. With this setup I'd have one 8-way hat on the stick, 1 one the throttle plus three 4-way hats on the throttle and lots of buttons on both combined. Assuming I:

a) don't fly in VR so I can leave some not-so-important commands on the keyboard

b) get the TrackIR for looking around

c) get rudder pedals

...wouldn't it be enough ? I imagine it would be perfectly fine to use the mouse to flick a switch in the cockpit now and then if I really do run out of buttons. I know I sound like I'm convincing myself it's the best thing to do (don't we all do it? ;)) but I'm sure some of you have been there before and can now reflect on it after having used your HOTAS setups for a while.

The problem is, none of the things on the stick are "Not so important".

Main hat: Trim, you will use this a lot

Cursor Select (Which screen are you using) You will use this a lot

AA Weapon Selection: (Gun, Aim120, Aim9, Aim7)

All very useful to have at your fingertips.

Since you have the CH throttle, you may get by just using a modifier key and the hat, I did that for the longest. As for price, I just watched Ebay and found a used fighterstick for 50$,

End of day, I think you'll be pleased with either option. But I still vote CH. :)