An idea of VR cockpit

You might want to look at PointCTRL, its a finger-to-cursor tracker for VR thats being developed for production by one of the guys here on the Forum. It may well be more robust and easy to use than lots of the hand tracking solutions.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=218861

While that would be cool i find using the touch controllers clunky.

I've been using VR (Euro Truck Sim) since 2014 and muscle memory takes over tbh. After a brief period of adjustment you should find that you can intuitively hit buttons on the Cougars or Keyboard without too much hassle. That's my experience anyway. I'd like to get some Cougars myself but haven't got around to it yet.

Still working in VR ;)

You might want to look at PointCTRL, its a finger-to-cursor tracker for VR thats being developed for production by one of the guys here on the Forum. It may well be more robust and easy to use than lots of the hand tracking solutions.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=218861

I'm aware of that device. Cool idea. Might give it a go as well.

But my method is to focus more on using actual controls, while using hand tracking merely as visual assistance to help reaching the controls.

While that would be cool i find using the touch controllers clunky.

I've been using VR (Euro Truck Sim) since 2014 and muscle memory takes over tbh. After a brief period of adjustment you should find that you can intuitively hit buttons on the Cougars or Keyboard without too much hassle. That's my experience anyway. I'd like to get some Cougars myself but haven't got around to it yet.

Just feel that's not good enough... that's all.

I might get lazy and settle on that eventually, but still want to dream a bit while I still can.

Maybe, just maybe, we could find a better solution...

I'm aware of that device. Cool idea. Might give it a go as well.

But my method is to focus more on using actual controls, while using hand tracking merely as visual assistance to help reaching the controls.

I can see this working if you only fly one aircraft. I had a VR cockpit setup with the Cougar MFDs for the A-10. But when changing to the F-18 I had to reposition the MFD significantly so they were in roughly the same place as in the VR cockpit. So it offers little flexibility. The physical MFD setup will only work for one aircraft. And the hand tracking (so you can see your hands in VR) will only work for one aircraft. For me overall flexibility to be able to fly a bunch of different aircraft was more important than having it setup for just one.

Still working in VR ;)

Awesome!

And I can see you made some parts specifically for the Tomcat!

Two questions though:

1. how do you operate the MFDs as in the Hornet? I guess that's what that mouse is there for?

2. how instant and accurate when you try to reach for a control? Straight in or you have to seek/touch on the panel for seconds to make sure?

I can see this working if you only fly one aircraft. I had a VR cockpit setup with the Cougar MFDs for the A-10. But when changing to the F-18 I had to reposition the MFD significantly so they were in roughly the same place as in the VR cockpit. So it offers little flexibility. The physical MFD setup will only work for one aircraft. And the hand tracking (so you can see your hands in VR) will only work for one aircraft. For me overall flexibility to be able to fly a bunch of different aircraft was more important than having it setup for just one.

Indeed. To tackle that, I'm thinking of some modular approach, making changing cockpit layout a bit easier, though details of which still TBD :D

Actually I'm using a trackball to operate the MFDs and the front panel.

Maybe I'll build a desk mounted front panel later.

Muscle memory is a strong force ;)...the main controls...like the landing gear

lever, light- or radio switches, master arm, master warning buttons ect.

are always at the same position within the rl-simpit...

so I'm able to reach them within one second.

Still working in VR ;)

well done!

On the subject of ghost hands and stick alignment, I noticed something in the No Man's Sky update video that adds VR, when the player jumps into the cockpit the in game hands attach to the joystick and throttle. It might be useful to have an option that if you're using VR hands in the cockpit, that as soon as there's input on the throttle axis or the stick the in game hands would attach to the stick and throttle regardless of placement.

I don't have too much problem using VR with a clickable cockpit. If all the key HOTAS buttons are set up you only need to click around the cockpit in the calmer moments. My hand can go from stick to mouse perfectly easily.

But what I am having an issue with is the use of the radio. The options are:

* Copious use of peering out the noseslit and blindly poking at the keyboard like a twat.

* Vaicom voice recognition. But that seems to have gone to ratshit at the last update - trying to fix it. Also, with the better campaigns using a lot of custom radio material I'm doubtful how it would handle that. Does anyone have experience of this?

Does anyone have a decent solution to using radios nicely in VR?

I use voiceattack for radio but without vaicom: I Just set vocal commands for f1 to f12 and mapped radio menu / ptt button on my hotas. Very Easy to use, works in every Mission and does not Need keyboard

So- there are a lot of considerations . It is possible to do as you say ( I synched my throttle location using the touch controller as i said , and will sync my stick position if my Foxx mounts ever show up ) but the road will be long and convoluted . There are various methods of putting VR hands in the cockpit , including Leap motion , Captogloves and the relatively new VR Gloves . As controllers , the first two are not quite ready for prime time , according to what i have read . But purely as hand trackers , surely they would be somewhat better . Tracking issues may still arise for switches behind the stick or throttle depending on the system . Also , can you switch off the control function (and haptics if so equipped) and is the system compatible with the DCS moving arm ? No disembodied hands floating around the cockpit for me , and that goes double for disembodied ghostly blue hands !

There is also the minor matter of building a cockpit to exact scale . Most pitbuilders deviate somewhat from perfect scale for any number of reasons . It may even be very difficult to obtain exact-scale plans for the aircraft you wish to replicate . The problem is easily seen by the use of Cougar MFDs for example , which are undersized relative to most IRL aircraft . While it may save some time building a VR cockpit as opposed to a projection simpit (no backlighting , lettering or displays) , one would still have to invest a lot of time and money building , wiring and incorporating all those panels and controls . I should mention that it would also be possible to build "dummy" haptics-only panels , and use the controller functions of your hand-tracking solution , but again , most do not seem quite fully capable yet .

In short , it is an interesting possibility , one that i have given a lot of thought to , but one that would take hundreds of hours to effect ,and that for ONE aircraft . Too many hours and too much expense for this old man :)

All this panic about physical things not being the exact size and in the exact place as their VR counterparts is unwarranted. The human brain will realign the position based on what it sees basically overriding the fact the position is off. It’s the same for the size of objects.

Don’t overthink, is my advice.

No one's panicking :) . I'm merely suggesting that using captogloves or similar as trackers-only requires physical synchronisation to work . This is the approach i would take if i were to invest the time and money in building a pit , which ain't gonna happen .

I have lately received a further education in the synchronisation's value to immersion with the receipt of my hotas deskmounts . I mounted my hotas to exactly match the hornet's positions , and it is positively eerie to see the virtual pilot's hands and arms movements mimic mine so closely .

No one's panicking :) . I'm merely suggesting that using captogloves or similar as trackers-only requires physical synchronisation to work . This is the approach i would take if i were to invest the time and money in building a pit , which ain't gonna happen .

I have lately received a further education in the synchronisation's value to immersion with the receipt of my hotas deskmounts . I mounted my hotas to exactly match the hornet's positions , and it is positively eerie to see the virtual pilot's hands and arms movements mimic mine so closely .

Right, but you do understand that precise synchronized isn’t required due to what I just explain to you?

Right, but you do understand that precise synchronized isn’t required due to what I just explain to you?

Your observation is entirely correct , but we are talking about two entirely different approaches . You are apparently speaking of using muscle memory to locate switches , and i am speaking of using hand-tracking to "guide" you to the switch .

The former does not require physical co-location . The latter clearly does .

But his point is that, after having spent a lot of resources to be 'guided' to the switch. It will be useless, because after just a few flights you won't need to be guided anymore, you'll be able to find the switch by muscle memory

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

Muscle memory will get you close enough to fumble for the correct switch , tracking leads you directly to it . Do you really think muscle memory can suffice to directly press even the UFC and DDI buttons , let alone front side panel and console switches without fumbling ? More to the point in VR , which method is more immersive ?

Yes, it suffice! Because I do it all the time...

I have a button box similar to a FA-18 UFC.

I use it all the time now to input coordinates as Rio in the F14.

And before that I used the keyboard numpad to input coords in the FA-18 and the A10 without problems.

I also have a generic button box with encoders. That have different use in different aircrafts (QFE, radar altimeter settings, course settings). And I can find those switches just fine without ever looking

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

Hi all,

2. is there a way to accurately align the physical MFD as those in game? (F/A-18C for example as I mostly fly)

I've done exactly that. Whilst I have no problem using my HOTAS throttle and joystick in VR, because your/my head moves around, it is very hard to align the MFDs, and I found myself having to put my hand on the edge of the MFDs, then count the buttons inward - it was a pain. The physical MFDs are not the same size as those in the cockpit.

Now I just use VR zoom and click on the MFD buttons on the screen using the mouse, which is a pain, but should improve once the new VR headsets with better resolution come out.

It should be remembered that military pilots are trained to locate every switch blindfolded...

Not really. After few years the real pilots forget many main features in the cockpits too. Like forgetting where is a long lights in a car.

They learn to know the functions positions, but they still use the labels etc to find them if not often used. That is as well reason why they have checklists, as they do otherwise lots of mistakes etc.

Like example look at the few YouTube videos when the real ex-pilots get to fly the DCS modules they were flying, and they have forgotten to even find such things like a Master Modes in a Harrier (NAV, VSTOL and A/G buttons on top left instrument panel), searching them all over the cockpit. Those things with the Harrier and Hornet from real ex-pilots was a surprise for me how much they have forgotten in couple years.

Similar things you can hear from pilots in "Aircrew Interview" channel etc. It is just natural that happens. And when you have more complex cockpits, you forget things or two here and there.

Do you really think muscle memory can suffice to directly press even the UFC and DDI buttons , let alone front side panel and console switches without fumbling ?

Even the real pilots needs to look at the UFC etc. The landing gear lever is one of the few that they might be able to flip without glancing.

But UFC is positioned under the HUD by purpose, not because there ain't space elsewhere, but it is easy to look at and press with either hand and less time spent on heads down displays. Managing a attitude awareness all the time better when focusing to input data through it. Not to be done blindly, by not looking at it and using only muscle memory like a writing with a computer keyboard.

Yes, it suffice! Because I do it all the time...

I have a button box similar to a FA-18 UFC.

 

I use it all the time now to input coordinates as Rio in the F14.

 

And before that I used the keyboard numpad to input coords in the FA-18 and the A10 without problems.

 

I also have a generic button box with encoders. That have different use in different aircrafts (QFE, radar altimeter settings, course settings). And I can find those switches just fine without ever looking

 

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

I think it is relatively safe to say, that muscle memory or other practical skills doesn't negate the need of immersion, and they don't have to be "one or the other". I'm pretty sure there are people doing just fine with basic setup without VR, while people are keep on trying to get better immersion experience.

Either way, the purpose of my post is to exchange and spark some further thinking by offering a new (or maybe not) method / approach to possibly create a better VR immersion experience. It might work, or maybe not at all. But it is always worthwhile and beneficial to get ideas from likeminded people.

Appreciate for any constructive thoughts.:)

Yes, it is always nice to seethe ideas other have :)

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk