PLAN sight guides to wrong altitude

I've attached screenshots. The PLAN sight should guide the pilot to the safety altitude from the mission planner before trigger unsafe when the dot is held at the target point.

 

The screen shots below show correct QFE set for waypoint M2. The HUD is set to display barometric altitude. The sight should command a climb until 400m (the safety altitude for this waypoint). instead, the sight guides the pilot to 300m. This means it is impossible to designate the target at the reference altitude without initiating a dive (which is why most users report the mode is easier to use in a slight dive). However, it means the sight will always "Jump" when trigger is unsafe, because you will not be at the correct altitude and the sight wlll have to command a dive or climb.

 

Below is showing the aircraft at 300m, with a level flight path being commanded by the sight (view the ADI to make that more clear).

 

 

I can take another screen if need be at 400m, wherein a dive is commanded (sight takes you to 300m). You can also see a shot of when trigger is set to unsafe. The sight jumps below the target to command a climb, as this phase of the symbology appears to operate correctly.

 

 

Also, when trigger is held, the steering order also commands the correct course to the safety altitude.

 

To recreate, take note of waypoint QFE and set correctly. Drop hud glass, set altitude display to LD. Master mode ANF, weapon selector in PLAN mode. Hold the pipper over the target and take note of where you are being guided. Give yourself 15km or more to give yourself plenty of time. Note for a 400m safety altitude, you will be commanded to level out around 300m.

I think I’ll answer in the other thread

This means it is impossible to designate the target at the reference altitude without initiating a dive

I disagree completely with this understanding of the system. And while I can't say that my understanding is correct for the real aircraft.. it works with the current implementation we have in DCS

 

 

First thing's first.. there is no range information provided to the CK37 before trigger unsafe in PLAN (LD M71 Bombs). You don't need a waypoint at the target. The computer doesn't use it. You can pursue the entire attack with nothing programmed in the CK37 except the takeoff position.

 

 

Now, back to your assertion that it's impossible to designate the target at the safety altitude. This is incorrect. You believe you must maneuver to keep the Pipper on the target before you trigger unsafe. This cannot work. Viggen doesn't know what the target is.. therefore doesn't know how far it is from a target it does not know.. therefore cannot create a depression angle to place the pipper on the target. The pipper information is not a real time calculation before you unsafe the trigger! What you see is a static solution for your alignment. So how to designate the target at the safety altitude?

 

 

You approach the target in level flight at the safety altitude. The pipper will necessarily be wwway below the target. This is normal. Continue approaching the target at safety altitude. When the target descends on the HUD to reach the pipper.. at that exact moment the pipper is on the target UNSAFE THE TRIGGER. CK37 takes it's current position, it's calculation of where the pipper intercepted QFE at the point of UNSAFE, and designates that point IN SPACE as the target. The pipper begins to move now!

It is giving you guidance for bombs to land on that 3d point in space (interception of the pipper with QFE as seen in the HUD at Safety Altitude).

 

 

The pipper for all intents has ceased to be a "pipper".. it is now a FLIGHT DIRECTOR superimposed on the target, which gives commands to the pilot to position the aircraft for the release.. those commands are in relation to the visually acquired target. (I.E. Pipper below target after UNSAFE? Fly UP! Left of target after UNSAFE? Fly RIGHT!)

 

 

It all works now.. and it's confusing as heck but you will destroy the target.. and the entire attack will be performed at the safety altitude.:joystick::pilotfly::smartass:

Edited June 24, 2019 by randomTOTEN

I disagree completely with this understanding of the system. And while I can't say that my understanding is correct for the real aircraft.. it works with the current implementation we have in DCS

 

 

First thing's first.. there is no range information provided to the CK37 before trigger unsafe in PLAN (LD M71 Bombs). You don't need a waypoint at the target. The computer doesn't use it. You can pursue the entire attack with nothing programmed in the CK37 except the takeoff position.

 

 

Now, back to your assertion that it's impossible to designate the target at the safety altitude. This is incorrect. You believe you must maneuver to keep the Pipper on the target before you trigger unsafe. This cannot work. Viggen doesn't know what the target is.. therefore doesn't know how far it is from a target it does not know.. therefore cannot create a depression angle to place the pipper on the target. The pipper information is not a real time calculation before you unsafe the trigger! What you see is a static solution for your alignment. So how to designate the target at the safety altitude?

 

 

You approach the target in level flight at the safety altitude. The pipper will necessarily be wwway below the target. This is normal. Continue approaching the target at safety altitude. When the target descends on the HUD to reach the pipper.. at that exact moment the pipper is on the target UNSAFE THE TRIGGER. CK37 takes it's current position, it's calculation of where the pipper intercepted QFE at the point of UNSAFE, and designates that point IN SPACE as the target. The pipper begins to move now!

It is giving you guidance for bombs to land on that 3d point in space (interception of the pipper with QFE as seen in the HUD at Safety Altitude).

 

 

The pipper for all intents has ceased to be a "pipper".. it is now a FLIGHT DIRECTOR superimposed on the target, which gives commands to the pilot to position the aircraft for the release.. those commands are in relation to the visually acquired target. (I.E. Pipper below target after UNSAFE? Fly UP! Left of target after UNSAFE? Fly RIGHT!)

 

 

It all works now.. and it's confusing as heck but you will destroy the target.. and the entire attack will be performed at the safety altitude.:joystick::pilotfly::smartass:

 

This is a good write-up of the procedure and it makes perfect sense. And you're right, more often than not it works and I can put bombs on target, but it's not working the way it should and depending on the target may involve a few workarounds.

 

I think the sight depression at 400m may be a bit high, as it forces trigger unsafe outside of radar ranging range, which leads to the point designated often times being somewhere BEHIND the target, causing bombs to land long. (You can see the target spot jump when radar ranging available behind the target). This requires going trigger safe with a dive to reacquire.

 

As for after trigger unsafe, before the trigger is held, the pipper does act as a flight director when used in relation with your target. However, when it commands a climb, the pipper does not move with pitch, which would be what a flight director would do, it moves to the target with regards to altitude, and imprecise altitude at that. If you have a safety altitude of 400m, you have a window of about 380m to 420m where the pipper will "stick" to the target. This makes it difficult to tell if you are at the correct attitude (not altitude). It also makes it difficult to see if you've leveled out after making adjustments without going heads down, which is what the sight should be avoiding at this point in the attack.

 

The knock-on effect is when you hold the trigger the steering order isn't all that useful as it responds to attitude, not altitude, and is often above or below the FPM far enough where it's useless for lateral guidance. It's my belief that after trigger unsafe, setting the pipper on the designated target should set the correct attitude so that when the trigger is held the FPM should be in the middle of the steering order.

 

I find if I immediately hold the trigger after going unsafe, I can slot the FPM in the order and gracefully reach the safety height right at the point of release.

Just tried a Level Bombing attack at the highest safety altitude (600m) and while my bombs missed, they landed exactly where I expected them to.

 

 

Lets talk further about what's going on.

 

 

The 600m pipper line is also a little high, as it would require a designation at a great distance ahead of the aircraft. Like you said, a slight dip of the pipper puts it lower, and lets me designate the target.

 

 

forces trigger unsafe outside of radar ranging range, which leads to the point designated often times being somewhere BEHIND the target

I don't believe this is true. Where the pipper intercepts QFE at the point of trigger unsafe is the target. Landing long or short (I do both) has mostly to do with failure to achieve launch parameters. This is the skill of the Viggen and keeps flying it so interesting.

 

 

You can see the target spot jump when radar ranging available behind the target

You've forgotten the engagement logic again! Once you UNSAFE what you're looking at isn't the target location, it's your flight director indication. The designated target has not changed. The radar ranging has given CK37 more accurate information than barometric triangulation, and the guidance has changed to more accurately guide you to the release point. If it "jumps behind the target" that mean's you're HIGH, and must DESCEND... that might be part of the explanation for your long miss!). If at this point you go TRIGGER SAFE, you clear out all sight calculations.

 

 

It's probably more correct to call the pipper after UNSAFE a CDI as opposed to a FD, and that's my mistake.. but it makes more sense to me to describe it as a FD than a CDI.

 

the pipper does not move with pitch, which would be what a flight director would do, it moves to the target with regards to altitude, and imprecise altitude at that

Yes it does not provide a pitch command, but an altitude one. That isn't a big deal if you were already at SAFETY HEIGHT when you went UNSAFE. It moves very little. This comes down to what's more accurate for the real aircraft, as I would like the most realistic behavior. But as it is now, the system works great when you comply with it's limitations....

If you have a safety altitude of 400m, you have a window of about 380m to 420m where the pipper will "stick" to the target.

Apparently CK37 can tolerate a margin of error in it's vertical calculations. Doesn't seem a big deal to me.. this is a pilot trying to maintain level flight in a hot combat zone while possibly sustaining enemy fire, potentially in turbulence. 40m seems a fair tolerance.

This makes it difficult to tell if you are at the correct attitude (not altitude)

Disagree. Pipper on target= Altitude OK for CK37. Don't worry about it!

It also makes it difficult to see if you've leveled out after making adjustments without going heads down

Again, if you're getting steady and correct targeting information, you're Level "enough" for the system? Why are you making this more complicated than it has to be? Drop Bombs. Hit Target. Go Home.

 

 

The knock-on effect is when you hold the trigger the steering order isn't all that useful as it responds to attitude, not altitude, and is often above or below the FPM far enough where it's useless for lateral guidance.

I just tried this and had normal indications after holding the TRIGGER. I did not experience this problem. Also I want to thank you for your description of the Level Release, as I have always waited until the "wings" to depress the trigger.. perhaps under the misguided belief that holding the TRIGGER too long or too early can cause a weapon release. Seems I was misguided. I was waiting on the trigger for the last second, and only saw the STEERING ORDER for a couple of seconds as the bombs fell. Thanks for that.

 

 

setting the pipper on the designated target should set the correct attitude

Okay. But what does the real CK37 do? As it's currently modeled it provides accurate information IMO to reliably place bombs on target.

 

 

I find if I immediately hold the trigger after going unsafe, I can slot the FPM in the order and gracefully reach the safety height right at the point of release.

It's "Level Release", you should have been either AT or VERY CLOSE to SAFETY HEIGHT when you went UNSAFE in the first place :-D
Edited June 25, 2019 by randomTOTEN

Just tried a Level Bombing attack at the highest safety altitude (600m) and while my bombs missed, they landed exactly where I expected them to.

 

 

Lets talk further about what's going on.

 

 

The 600m pipper line is also a little high, as it would require a designation at a great distance ahead of the aircraft. Like you said, a slight dip of the pipper puts it lower, and lets me designate the target.

 

 

I don't believe this is true. Where the pipper intercepts QFE at the point of trigger unsafe is the target. Landing long or short (I do both) has mostly to do with failure to achieve launch parameters. This is the skill of the Viggen and keeps flying it so interesting.

 

 

You've forgotten the engagement logic again! Once you UNSAFE what you're looking at isn't the target location, it's your flight director indication. The designated target has not changed. The radar ranging has given CK37 more accurate information than barometric triangulation, and the guidance has changed to more accurately guide you to the release point. If it "jumps behind the target" that mean's you're HIGH, and must DESCEND... that might be part of the explanation for your long miss!). If at this point you go TRIGGER SAFE, you clear out all sight calculations.

 

 

It's probably more correct to call the pipper after UNSAFE a CDI as opposed to a FD, and that's my mistake.. but it makes more sense to me to describe it as a FD than a CDI.

 

Yes it does not provide a pitch command, but an altitude one. That isn't a big deal if you were already at SAFETY HEIGHT when you went UNSAFE. It moves very little. This comes down to what's more accurate for the real aircraft, as I would like the most realistic behavior. But as it is now, the system works great when you comply with it's limitations....

Apparently CK37 can tolerate a margin of error in it's vertical calculations. Doesn't seem a big deal to me.. this is a pilot trying to maintain level flight in a hot combat zone while possibly sustaining enemy fire, potentially in turbulence. 40m seems a fair tolerance.

Disagree. Pipper on target= Altitude OK for CK37. Don't worry about it!

Again, if you're getting steady and correct targeting information, you're Level "enough" for the system? Why are you making this more complicated than it has to be? Drop Bombs. Hit Target. Go Home.

 

 

I just tried this and had normal indications after holding the TRIGGER. I did not experience this problem. Also I want to thank you for your description of the Level Release, as I have always waited until the "wings" to depress the trigger.. perhaps under the misguided belief that holding the TRIGGER too long or too early can cause a weapon release. Seems I was misguided. I was waiting on the trigger for the last second, and only saw the STEERING ORDER for a couple of seconds as the bombs fell. Thanks for that.

 

 

Okay. But what does the real CK37 do? As it's currently modeled it provides accurate information IMO to reliably place bombs on target.

 

 

It's "Level Release", you should have been either AT or VERY CLOSE to SAFETY HEIGHT when you went UNSAFE in the first place :-D

 

If your target varies in altitude from the ground below you currently are when you go trigger unsafe, the spot you designate is NOT the correct spot. This is because the calculation uses triangulation, not radar ranging at this point. Like you say, CK37 doesn't "know" where the target is, only the depression angle and your own altitude. The jump I refer to here is different than flight direction. In this scenario I am already at the correct altitude. The target that is getting "stuck to" (the actual designated point) is BEHIND where you actually pressed trigger unsafe due to this error. This isn't insignificant. It is the difference between hitting your target and missing completely. This is why it's critical for me to wait for radar ranging before trigger unsafe, to avoid re-acquisition or worse, re-attack.

 

This isn't the case for all targets, but it must be watched out for. I will supply a track showing the phenomenon. It is real and it is an expected limitation of using simple triangulation, one all aircraft in DCS are susceptible to. Another way to explain it is, the designated spot hasn't changed according to the computer, it holds on to that triangulated spot you designated. When ranging becomes available, it still believes that spot is the correct one, but essentially updates ownship slant range based on the new data. This causes the APPEARANCE that the target has changed, but it has not. That is the spot the computer thought you were targeting all along. A similar effect can be achieved in the A10 when using the TPOD without laser ranging. The same phenomenon will occur and your bombs will always be long because the same principle is at work.

 

To test, make an ammo dump your target. Designated it at about 7km out where there is only triangulation. You will land long nearly every time, often missing completely. The further east in the Caucases you go, the worse it gets (more uneven terrain in general).

 

As for steady targeting information and pipper on target, why have variance at all? Why leave it to chance? When I hold the trigger, there should be some consistency as to the location of the steering order. Seeing as the steering order and the pipper use different data sets, it's difficult to predict the last minute corrections necessary. It seems unlikely that SAAB would have the steering order work one way for flight direction (pitch dependent) and the pipper sight work another (altitude dependent). It's nowhere near as graceful and would actually take longer to implement from an engineering perspective. This wouldn't make the COMPUTER more accurate, but it will make the profile more heads-up and easier to fly, and thus will make YOU more accurate. Again, the difficulty here is aTtitude, NOT aLtitude. Since the two phases use different calculations, they often don't agree. When the piper hands you off to the steering order, vertical correction is often necessary. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The phase 3 steering order should just be a representation of what phase 2 was doing but no longer using the visual on target as reference (as it is no longer assumed to be visible), hence the ring (steering order). I see a lot of people miss with Viggens using slicks.

 

You're flying at 400m in AAA and MANPADS envelope through turbulence at about mach .8 - .9. It is not the time to be fudging it and errors multiply rapidly. "Close" leads to misses in this performance regime, and the Viggen only gets one shot. The current modeling of blast damage often requires direct hits, especially with 500lb bombs. Accuracy is paramount.

 

But you're right, at the end of the day we don't really know how it would work in the real jet and it is accurate and if you get good designation and ensure you overfly the target, you can pretty much ignore the symbology and hit your target. I just want to fly the profile as it is meant to be done, not just score hits. I'm the kind of guy that always cold starts. I could just "get up there" but working the way it's designed is part of the fun for me.

 

BTW, the DYK mode is also a consent-to-release mode. You can hold the trigger anywhere after the line flashes and before the wings appear, and the computer will automatically drop the bombs at the right moment according the spot you were at when you went unsafe. It's very similar to PLAN mode in that way, except the steering order is there to demonstrate the ~4g pull to get the correct bomb spread as input in the weapon panel.

 

I think Ragnar did an awesome job on the sight. I read a fair bit of the actual manual (with the help of Google translate, I don't speak Swedish!), and it is quite vague on the topic like Ragnar says. It does say the target becomes a reference in phase 2, but doesn't really say in what way, so any interpretation could be correct. I think phase 2 and 3 should use the same data so that people will find phase 3 useful. If you don't enter it early, you won't use it (you say you only saw it for a second, meaning most of your deliveries you still had visual at release).

 

If you don't mind me asking, how do you set up for this profile? What speed do you like? How far out do you pop up to the safety altitude? Do you have to dive because you can't get visual in time for the sight? It seems like you always have visual on release, which means you're probably flying it more "clean" than I am.

Edited June 25, 2019 by LastRifleRound
Grammar, spelling, clarification

If your target varies in altitude from the ground below you currently are when you go trigger unsafe, the spot you designate is NOT the correct spot.

Again, I disagree. CK37 does not care where the ground is directly below the aircraft at the moment of unsafe. The altitude reference is not radio measurement, but barometric. You know this because you set QFE for the target. That's the reference CK37 is using. You are correct, at unsafe the system triangulates using altitude and it's reference pipper depression. Those two pieces of information are sufficient. Once radar ranging becomes available, the system no longer needs to calculate current (slant=hypotenuse) range to target... it can measure that directly. Now the calculation operates in reverse. CK37 knows slant range and radar (pipper) depression. It can calculate the current altitude above target in real time. Errors in setting QFE or excessive deviation from SAFETY HEIGHT will cause the pipper to "jump" (command a correction).

 

The jump I refer to here is different than flight direction.

This must be speculation on your part, after UNSAFE there is nothing on the HUD which tells you the calculated location of the target. I don't think this jump is true. I think it's time for a track!

 

I agree (somewhat) with your description of the ranging update process.. but don't really think it's relevant to the discussion at hand. Yes the A10 is less accurate until you turn the laser on. But turning the laser on has never made my bombs suddenly miss! Lol.

 

To test, make an ammo dump your target.

I have a custom mission with a group of MRLS in a tight canyon at an elevation of 263m. I used this mission to learn the Level Release procedure. I vary between landing long, short, and destroying the entire lot. Really depends on my flying skills and amount of recent practice.

 

As for steady targeting information and pipper on target, why have variance at all? Why leave it to chance?

I can't say for sure.. but thinking about it for the last couple days has given me some ideas. Using altitude as the reference probably keeps the pipper steady in relation to the target. If it was a true FD, and gave attitude commands (and course commands) then it would possibly be experienced as "wobbling" around the target as it gave pitch and bank commands. As it is now it "jumps" instead, but at least it stays stable after the jump :). Just carefully adjust it onto the target. I also am suspicious of needing attitude information on the HUD, as you can clearly see the terrain and horizon in front of you (these are visual procedures) and can use those natural references for pitch information.

 

but it will make the profile more heads-up and easier to fly, and thus will make YOU more accurate....it's difficult to predict the last minute corrections necessary

There should be little need for "last minute corrections," the whole benefit of this calculation is to give you time to position the jet for an accurate attack. There is ample time to fly the director back onto the target. I can see the amount of correction that's required. With an attitude system you can only see the aggressiveness of the maneuver being commanded, just as the steering order commands the aggressiveness of that 4G pull up. Do I need to descend a little, or do I need to climb a lot? In your system the CK37 makes that decision for me, I might be required to "fly through it" to get what it want. Current behavior provides ample information.

 

When the piper hands you off to the steering order, vertical correction is often necessary.

Why should it? You were at the correct altitude in phase 2, and you're still at the correct altitude at phase 3

 

I also do cold starts friend. My suggestion for you is to practice this procedure without dropping any bombs. I think you can even hold the trigger on an empty Viggen and the entire procedure will be replicated (but I have to fire up DCS to check that... I know for sure the symbology is the same after you drop M/71 LD). After a while I was flying around trying to Level Release with an empty jet on random landmarks.. it's great repetitive practice to learn the system.

 

I have two different profiles I use for Level Release. The first is "the book" method of pursuing the entire attack at safety height. I've found M0.8-M0.9 to work best... faster the better. I pop up generally in time for the pipper to meet the target.. this is probably somewhere around 10km or more. It's a general "I'm getting close to the target" decision. I find the biggest problem I have with this procedure is that it's very difficult to physically see the target when I'm supposed to be designating it. That might be a combination of my monitor size, draw distance, and zoom. This and some airmanship errors likely cause the majority of my misses. Most of them are probably bad designations.

 

So my second method is to use a shallow descent for the designation. I've found this greatly improves the accuracy of Level Release. I prefer to pop up to just above safety height (maybe 50m-75m?) and then dip the pipper to a target I can much more easily identify (it's much closer). I designate, and of course the "FD" jumps above the target. I use the closure to adjust my descent rate, and stabilize it somewhere close to safety height (I stop looking at the altimeter once I have a designation). I make gentle corrections until the pipper (=target) drops below the HUD. I almost always see the "release signal" wings just before the pipper disappears. The steering order pops up for just a second before the FALLD LAST light illuminates, and I am off the target. I don't have time to make any corrections on it, and it's pretty much centered anyways (least as far as I can tell.. it comes and goes quick!)

Edited June 26, 2019 by randomTOTEN

Why should it? You were at the correct altitude in phase 2, and you're still at the correct altitude at phase 3

 

I also do cold starts friend. My suggestion for you is to practice this procedure without dropping any bombs. I think you can even hold the trigger on an empty Viggen and the entire procedure will be replicated (but I have to fire up DCS to check that... I know for sure the symbology is the same after you drop M/71 LD). After a while I was flying around trying to Level Release with an empty jet on random landmarks.. it's great repetitive practice to learn the system.

 

I have two different profiles I use for Level Release. The first is "the book" method of pursuing the entire attack at safety height. I've found M0.8-M0.9 to work best... faster the better. I pop up generally in time for the pipper to meet the target.. this is probably somewhere around 10km or more. It's a general "I'm getting close to the target" decision. I find the biggest problem I have with this procedure is that it's very difficult to physically see the target when I'm supposed to be designating it. That might be a combination of my monitor size, draw distance, and zoom. This and some airmanship errors likely cause the majority of my misses. Most of them are probably bad designations.

 

So my second method is to use a shallow descent for the designation. I've found this greatly improves the accuracy of Level Release. I prefer to pop up to just above safety height (maybe 50m-75m?) and then dip the pipper to a target I can much more easily identify (it's much closer). I designate, and of course the "FD" jumps above the target. I use the closure to adjust my descent rate, and stabilize it somewhere close to safety height (I stop looking at the altimeter once I have a designation). I make gentle corrections until the pipper (=target) drops below the HUD. I almost always see the "release signal" wings just before the pipper disappears. The steering order pops up for just a second before the FALLD LAST light illuminates, and I am off the target. I don't have time to make any corrections on it, and it's pretty much centered anyways (least as far as I can tell.. it comes and goes quick!)

 

Your last two paragraphs answer the question in the first sentence. You just said you fly intentionally out of profile because sight depression makes visual acquisition impossible, and thus having to deal with the "jump" and consequent uselessness of the steering order. This is the whole point of my post. I do not think this is intended behavior.

 

I can't issue a track tonight, I just compiled a major build (we have a major version release next week so it's balls to the wall) and I am TIRED (It's almost 3AM here) but I might get some stick time tomorrow to record a track. Better yet, I'll probably record it on shadowplay and post a vid up on youtube for you. I will demonstrate the target designation being off as well as my procedure.

 

Don't get me wrong, I hit what I'm aiming at most of the time, I don't need training. I simply don't think it's working right.

 

I'm just glad at least one other person gives a crap enough about an obscure 1960's era aircraft's bombing modes to keep posting about it! :lol: (well, aside from the devs, of course)

Edited June 26, 2019 by LastRifleRound
Grammar

I don't need training. I simply don't think it's working right...This is the whole point of my post. I do not think this is intended behavior.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you really comprehend how it's supposed to work in the first place.

In your initial post, you assert that that the pipper should "guide the pilot to the safety altitude" but that's impossible because CK37 doesn't know the correct target.

You then state that altitude indications are invalid in mountainous terrain, but that indicates that you don't understand the information CK37 is using for triangulation.

 

I just don't want the developers to fix a problem that I don't believe exists, and radically change how the display works based on a misunderstanding of how the process works in the first place. I don't believe the sight should be redesigned just to account for a likely pilot error, especially when it's already giving valid indications on how to correct that error (you call it "jumping"). We need more information, about what you're doing and about how the real CK37 works. But in DCS right now I believe the aiming calculation is fine.

 

My computer display problems and exploitation of the sighting mechanics don't imply that the indication is in any way broken. The 2nd profile may even have been intended by SAAB. You still appear to not understand the usefulness of the "jump" or what it indicates... asserting that I have to "deal with it." I have to "deal with it" just as much as I have to "deal with" the fin on the flight path vector for landing, or the needle on any instrument in the cockpit.

 

If we want a simplification (modernization) of the Level Release indications, at least make it a user option for those of us that enjoy the challenge of a very early computerized solution.

 

And lets talk about your understanding of the system before we can for sure claim that it's broken.

Edited June 26, 2019 by randomTOTEN

Ragnar posted that he made adjustments in response to my testing. He knows the aircraft way better than me. If I was wrong he'd simply say so instead of wasting man hours working on it. He's the dev who worked on the sight from day one.

 

My understanding of what the pipper does comes from him, not me. Here's a post where he says the first phase guides to safety altitude when pointed at the target:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=182228

 

Based on his description, the sight is not doing what he intended, hence the bug report.

 

In regards to phase 2, I'm not asking for modernization. Phase 3 behaves this way already. Is phase 3 of the plan sight more "modern" than phase 2?

 

I'm starting to beleive you think I'm asking for something I'm not. Allow me to post a video to demonstrate so I can clarify.

 

Also, you never addressed my point about how you leave profile to dive on the target to make it easier, which was one of my predicted knock on effects of this behavior.

 

You keep bringing the discussion to convenience and modernization like I need this to be easier and that's why I'm posting. It's unfounded and I believe it shows a lack of understanding of what I'm saying.

 

All I'm saying is phase 2 should use the same data as phase 3. Do you understand what I mean by this? Ragnar said he picked an arbitrary angle for phase 1. I believe based on HIS description that the angle should be greater. Neither of these changes make anything more "modern" or "simpler". They may make it harder. It doesn't matter. What matters is whether they are correct.

Edited June 26, 2019 by LastRifleRound