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[FEATURE REQUEST] Airborne tanker bank angle control while refueling


GGTharos

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Currently a tanker will only bank to 15 degrees while performing air refueling. This makes refueling patterns unnecessarily large.

 

The request is to add two parameters:

  1. Racetrack width (nm or km) to the racetrack orbit action.
  2. Maximum Bank Angle (15,30,45,60) parameter to the refueling action.
  3. Refueling airspeed should be a fixed IAS speed, not TAS/GAS etc.

 

The bank angle is the maximum bank angle allowed during refuelling to attempt to stay in the pattern. Meaning, the tanker will use as much bank as it needs, smoothly - meaning, calculate the necessary bank and only vary it very little if necessary. The AI should ignore small deviations in favor of smooth flying.


Edited by GGTharos
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Agreed, having a smarter refuel AI and felixbility in ME is something that would keep people trying and not flat out avoid air refueling.

 

I try it every now and then and lose patience quickly. Well, I just don't have a good enough joystick maybe.

 

Also the airfuel AI isn't holding exactly the same airspeed, it glitches up and down (a 100 km single waypoint) - I think this is a general default AI thing that probably happens with all AIs IMO. I've seen AI A10-C do really bizzare things that A10-C should never be able to do.


Edited by Worrazen
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Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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Very much needed. I’d also suggest the ability to set a fixed IAS for the tanker, rather than TAS which can lead to significant changes in IAS with winds aloft.

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Well yes it's probably not realistic that it would hold exactly the same IAS point zero zero zero zero in real life but the glitch makes it go like 5-10 knots up and down so that's quite significant. I think it may have to do something with terrain underneath, but I ran it on a super flat spot in Caucasus, even tho I set it to ignore ground.

 

 

If the variation realism is built-in, then I guess an option to enable a cheat to fix it could be a solution, disabled by default.

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Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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Tanker needs a database of receiver parameters per receiver type. So slow plane shows up and tanker slows down and fast plane shows up and tanker speeds up. A static ME setting for transfer parameters is no good. When no receiver then tanker should fly programmed speed (need orbit task which isn't G/S based) or calculate its own best endurance.

 

Would be nice to link a tanking task to a trigger zone and just have it try to remain inside it.

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Indeed, that would be the gold plated solution Frederf.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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It seems to have changed in a recent patch so that if you're within 1.1 nm of the tanker it will bank a maximum of about 12 degrees.  The practical result of this is that it virtually never levels out if it starts to turn while you're tanking (or approaching the tanker).  The previous hard turns were maybe excessive, but the new version is worse because (for the F-18 anyway) it's a tough bank angle to have to maintain constantly.

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Its also difficult for milsim communities who work with real life airspaces, because the tanker turns in DCS are so incredibly wide that it doesn't fit in any tanker track in the world. You need such an enourmous amount of airspace reserved for a single tanker in its current state.

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Bumping.   @BIGNEWY, this would be very good as a quality of life enhancement overall - it helps mission design a lot.  The main issue as stated above is airspace management.

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  • ED Team

Hi, 

I have made a note on our internal system about this, however while we do want to make improvements with AAR currently it is lower priority.

thank you

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Thanks.  This just seems like 'low hanging fruit', that's all.   Add a radio call to control the desired bank angle by the pilot who's refueling.  The default should become 30 deg (it halves the turn size which is significant for operating the racetrack) which is going to be a little harder than the current 15 but it is a happy medium in terms of difficulty IMHO.  Bonus points like controlling this from the ME (and which is the minimum/maximum bank angle available to the calling player) can be added later.

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I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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I've finally started to get comfortable with A2AR, and can even hook up in the middle of those turns, but it does ratchet up the pucker factor.

Of the four probe and drogue (KC-135MPRS, KC-130, S-3B, and Il-76) the KC-130 is A2AR with training wheels, at least for me in the F/A-18. 

I've started to make my tanker routes boxes rather than racetrack orbit so I only have to deal with 90 degree turns at a time, apart from which I need more practice in those banks.

(HA!  Listen to me...not so long ago I'd form up with the tanker going north around Ramat David and give up somewhere in Syria closer to Turkey than Lebanon.  Now I'm hitting it in the turns, and last night managed to hit at dusk with < 2,000 pounds in my tanks...)


Edited by Raisuli
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  • 2 weeks later...

Very good, I don't think it's that of a complicated task for the sizable improvement it'll bring, then waiting for the serious AI enhancements would be much easier. .

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Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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I don't enjoy jumping into threads like this when others have already agreed but I absolutely understand and agree with these suggestions.

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On 8/14/2023 at 9:22 PM, NineLine said:

Thanks all, this has been added to our internal AAR report. I can't say if or when its happening right now, but it has been noted to the devs. Thanks. 

While we're at it can we do something about the timers on "Pre-Contact" conditions?  Just because I lagged out of range for a second, shouldn't make the basket retract while I'm on approach less than 10 feet away from it with the probe simply because I didn't hook up in a prescribed amount of time.  

it'd be great to have a feature that 'overrode' the timer running out if the plane is within a certain distance of the basket.  The basket should never retract when I'm actively attempting to make contact and inside a range of like, 70 feet or so.

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