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What am I missing.


TheOtherSider

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My first post in the forums.

 

 

I am a long time flight sim fan having just recently discovered DCS. I have become some what addicted after dumping 100 hours into the su-25 I now have The persian Gulf map and NTTR flaming cliffs 3 The Hornet The Harrier The A-10c and likely the F-14(when it releases) so that I will have air craft that fit 3 different jobs CAS, CAP and Wild Wiesel roles.

 

 

Now to the point of this post. I have 200 hours into... training to fly these craft, the systems the munitions and I have a pretty strong grasp on all of them. Landing take off ground attack air to air even AA avoidance. In my training missions that I set up I am Ace. But I have now started trying Both included missions and campanges and user created missions. I have not completed a single one. Namely due to the ridiculous amounts of AA and SAMS that every one Egal dynamics and users pack into their missions.

 

 

While I am aware that even The best SEAD mission will miss some of these threats( I use the options for SEAD when the tasking is there) It seems like there is still an over abundance of it. The problem is I eventually run out of counter measures BEFORE they run out of shit to shoot at me. So my question there is how does one deal with these in the single player missions this could be for the A-10 or the other planes I mentioned above ( Have the same problem with the Hornet though not nearly as sever as with the A-10)

 

 

Secondly JATAC and my wing man, In my training missions they work every time. JTAC will give me information and my wing man will attack targets. Step over to a mission and JTAC never responds and my wingman will simply fly around until he gets shot down too. This is fairly specific to the A-10. The Harrier or the Hornet work as intended...mostly. Since it works when I set up a training mission and not when I am flying a pre created one... There has to be something I am missing?

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I’ve got to ask the obvious, do you have your radios setup correctly to talk to the JTAC and wingman?

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Yes it does but the radio menu shows a different title depending on what radio you use (AM/FM/UHF). You need to be in the right one and on the correct freq to talk to wing/flight/JTAC/ATC.

If you don't, they do nothing because they actually can't hear you. Wing/Flight is UHF in general.


Edited by Lange_666

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Ah thankies, JTAC is now working in missions. I never noticed it before.

 

 

I am now working on my battle field tactics attacking remaining SAMs with mavricks trying to not over fly the target areas and finally completed the mission sunset serria. Though now I am having a problem with ManPads :/ How do you spot them ? they don't seem to show up even with labels on and have shot you down before you evenn know they are there?

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Most of the time when a MANPAD is firing at you, he's usually underneath you. The A-10's MLWS is blind directly below and above the aircraft (to an extent). Unfortunate that the Harrier and the Hornet lack MLWS, but those A/C can boom and zoom in and out of the AO fast enough to usually defeat MANPADs or overfly them before they can track and fire at you, letting you get eyes on the launch while on egress.

 

If you're flying into an area with suspected MANPAD threats, either fly above their engagement range (generally take ground-level altitude and add about 10k~12k ft), fly low and fast to reduce the MANPAD's ability to spot you, or be able to dispense flares quickly while maneuvering. I personally prefer to use CMS in manual mode with program J for single flare release and K for pairs with each press. While in the battlespace, I would recommend taking an occasional turn to get eyes on the ground below you if you suspect MANPADs in the area, roll right and do a quick scan, roll back left for a quick scan, back to wings-level, repeat as needed.

 

Most SAMs can be defeated with maneuvering though if you know what threat you're up against. Beaming is your best bet; lets you get eyes on the missile and generates the greatest amount of distance the missile has to go to intercept you. Older-generation radar SAMs eat chaff for breakfast, especially SA-6. Strela-based units like the SA-9 and SA-13 are also hungry for flares (just make sure to chop the throttle to idle for a bit to reduce IR signature). The Tunguska (SA-19) is a nasty bastard since the missiles are radio-command guided, there's no countermeasure to stop that without aggressive maneuvering. Probably one of the best ways to defeat SAMs is to put it on the beam and dive towards the ground early so the missile will use it's rocket motor to burn towards the ground, sometimes colliding into it. Otherwise you can force the missile to use up its rocket motor burn time to try to intercept you low, so you can then pull up and force it to attempt to climb with no acceleration, just let gravity defeat it for you.


Edited by Tholozor

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Usually with good mission design you wouldn't be required to take out any SAMs, as SEAD flights should do it for you. If you're cleared to certain area you either should go high enough to avoid them or the briefing / other assets should give you the location of know threats. A-10 was not designed to destroy these threats and shouldn't be in an area where there are lots of those (especially radar - guided SAMs), unless there is a very good reason to be there (like ability to use terrain masking to avoid them).

 

What Tholozor said all is very sound advice. Some of the threats (like SA-8 Gecko and all IR SAMs) can be destroyed with Mavericks once you locate them - TGP is your friend here, though play with its settings (contrast / brightness) to get the best results.

 

Finally, you can use your wingman (which is kinda cheating, but on the other hand there are so many things you cannot do with him as opposed to real life that what I write below could actually be considered OK). Tell him to "Engage Air Defences" and when he acknowledges check your TAD. You should see a small wedding cake on the spot which he intends to attack, just slew your sensors there and take over the target.

 

Hope this helps!

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Wow. thank you both for the detailed information. Especially the info on the tunguska Tholozor. I thought there might be a bug with it since it ignores both chaff and flares( Seriously it induced so much rage that I screamed out loud waking my husband up in the middle of the night) I wish the A-10 manual covered SAM types and how to defeat them. mayhaps there be a Guide on AA and SAM types floating around the forums?

 

 

Now to Baltic_dragon.... I gotta say I am fangirling out a bit here! your Georgian war campaigne for the f-15c is with out a doubt the best piece of dlc content for DCS! when I got the A-10 I also bought the Enemy within because the Georgian war was so good! it is the primary reason I am trying to come to grips with the A-10 so I can Fly the Enemy with in missions! I really hope you are working on more story campainges...?

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Wow. thank you both for the detailed information. Especially the info on the tunguska Tholozor. I thought there might be a bug with it since it ignores both chaff and flares( Seriously it induced so much rage that I screamed out loud waking my husband up in the middle of the night) I wish the A-10 manual covered SAM types and how to defeat them. mayhaps there be a Guide on AA and SAM types floating around the forums?

 

 

Now to Baltic_dragon.... I gotta say I am fangirling out a bit here! your Georgian war campaigne for the f-15c is with out a doubt the best piece of dlc content for DCS! when I got the A-10 I also bought the Enemy within because the Georgian war was so good! it is the primary reason I am trying to come to grips with the A-10 so I can Fly the Enemy with in missions! I really hope you are working on more story campainges...?

 

Thanks mate! Nice to hear that! You bet I am, first off a complete overhaul of the Enemy’s Within (it has aged in the last 3 years so I decided to put it on par with other campaigns I did after it - which means rewriting all the scripts and doing all the VOs from scratch. Next in line Harrier for Caucasus and Persian Gulf.

 

Oh and in TEW you will have to worry about the radar guided SAMs only in one mission :)

ce535d_9d347b62819c4372b3c485a4f95d2004~mv2.png
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Something you might also consider looking into at some point is VR. That has made a major difference for me in defeating SAMs since everything is more natural. Before VR, I felt like I was just guessing where things were, but now I'm able to not only evade missile shots much more easily, but its easier to keep track of where they came from. I had an SA-9 fire at me, at fairly close range the other day. I was able to see it right away, evade it with maneuvering only, and kill the vehicle with the gun before he had a chance to get another missile off.

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YES! the Harrier dosn't have nearly enough content for it. I play single player because well my computer does not play well with DCS servers not well enough to fly with any one. So hearing that you are making missions for it and on the PG map too! that is just great!

 

 

When I realized I was going to be investiong a lot of time into DCS I got track IR. While I know it is not VR it works well in a pinch. I also think I would need a substantial upgrade to my PC to VR. My current pc still runs an FX chip set... Don"t laugh !!! it actually runs DCS single player really well maxed out ( cept gras and ground clutter that is at 200) I don't think it is strong enough for VR though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If it helps I did a short video on attaching a BUK (SA11) site a few years ago, it goes into why you should use mark point on the targeting pod and using terrain masking for attacking SAM sites. Also be aware you can avoid pretty much any SAM if you use countermeasures and manoeuvring correctly. Chaff and an immediate 90-degree turn perpendicular to the threat works wonders. I used to practise "playing" with SAMS in this way, especially radar guided ones.

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Using the wingman to engage air defences is the single thing i do as he spots them much quicker than i do. Also keep an eye on the tad and learn how to use it to spot theats, once the wingman starts to engage, his spi shows on the tad and you can then slew your sensors to that point and mark it and help him engage if possible. Very powerful tool is the TAD.

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Using the wingman to engage air defences is the single thing i do as he spots them much quicker than i do. Also keep an eye on the tad and learn how to use it to spot theats, once the wingman starts to engage, his spi shows on the tad and you can then slew your sensors to that point and mark it and help him engage if possible. Very powerful tool is the TAD.

 

That's kind of a cheat, using the AI, which knows where everyone is at all times to spot targets. That's easy :)

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Wow. thank you both for the detailed information. Especially the info on the tunguska Tholozor. I thought there might be a bug with it since it ignores both chaff and flares( Seriously it induced so much rage that I screamed out loud waking my husband up in the middle of the night) I wish the A-10 manual covered SAM types and how to defeat them. mayhaps there be a Guide on AA and SAM types floating around the forums?

 

This might bea good start - http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=486

 

I know how you feel with the Hog vs SAMs, I actually got so frustrated I hardly fly the A-10 anymore. :cry:

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Additional to the answers until now, here are some "quick tips":

If you make an attack run over a target area, use a counter measure programm which throws some chaff and flares (e.g. programm "D" in the A-10C, for an "unknown" threat) when turning out after the attack.

 

In the A-10C Stock Campaign "Georgian Hammer" you usually have these SEAD flights you cammand to start the attack with F-10 communications menu (there you don't have to bother the radio channel). Command them to start SEAD as soon as you can and they will clear the most threats until you are in the area.

You can stay above 12.000 feet in the whole campaign and use guided weapons to destroy the targets in the missions. If you stay high you are safe for the most threats in these campaign.

 

In "Enemy Within" are some Manpads to deal with, you get used to deal with them after some attempts. I usually start a dive and turn the engines exhaust out of the line of sight of the missile and throw some flares. Use a programm that throws some flares on your attack runs.

Manpads fire if they can see your engine exhaust, so look behind you for missile trails and start to evade.

 

In "Red Flag" are some IR-SAMs like SA-9 you have to take in to account if you start your attack runs. These systems won't be taken out by SEAD flights (as most of them don't have a radar). You can either try to evade them or, as you have plenty of ammunition in this campaign and your wingmens, take them out with mavs. You have to locate and identify them with your targeting pod (they are usually in the same group as the targets).

 

Then there are the Tunguskas. As stated they won't go for chaff or flare. If you don't have an targeting pod (like e.g. in "Steel Winter") you can "Wild Weasel" them if you start a dive to the ground as soon as they fire at you. The missiles wil hit the ground as they try to intercept you. After 8 missiles per SA-19 they are out of ammunition. The you can get closer and hit them with some bombs (you can try it even with the cannon, but be aware they still have ammo for the AA gun).

 

AAA can usualy evaded by a bit of maneuvering, you can even kill them with guns or rockets if you are careful.

 

200 hours for 3 planes isn't much. I do not have an idea how much time i have spend in DCS but as i switched from steam to standalone it was about 100 h only in the A-10C and i didn't finish the stock campaign then.

You get used to threat avoidance by time. You can practice it the hard way (e.g. with Maple Flag TTQ-Campaig, i think it was this campaign where you have a mission with lots of AA threats to practice avoidance, i needed a lot of attempts to get through "the gauntlet") if you want to shorten it, but it can be very frustrating as you will get shot down.

 

In some missions there are SAM-threats like the SA-10, where you are usually supposed to fly very low for threat avoidance (which makes you more vulnerable to other threats) as they can't be overflown. But i think thats rather an "late game" scenario :D

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