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PTID and Sparrowhawk


Wizard_03

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Not to insult you, but you need to do some more research if you think that not having the Sparrowhawk or PTID is unrealistic for the implementation of the LANTIRN. The Sparrowhawk wasn't deployed until 2002, in limited numbers. Tomcats were still able to use the pod without the use of the PTID. People are so picky with how they want their F-14. Everyone wants late development Tomcats that have more comforts making them easier to fly. Yet the fact is there was 557 F-14As, 38 F-14Bs & 37 F-14Ds. With 48 F-14As converted to F-14B type. So the large majority were A's.


Edited by Gunslinger22

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I wish we we were getting PTID and sparrowhawk...:(

 

I feel like the A and A+ version heatblur is modeling are too similar, also makes their implementation of lantirn somewhat unrealistic.

 

Not really my idea of the F-14B

Well that's the purpose of it. That's why Heatblur is able to deliver two different variants in one module. If they would be vastly different it would require a lot of additional work and the module would either be much more expensive or it would result in two different modules.

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Not to insult you, but you need to do some more research if you think that not having the Sparrowhawk or PTID is unrealistic for the implementation of the LANTIRN. The Sparrowhawk wasn't deployed until 2002, in limited numbers. Tomcats were still able to use the pod without the use of the PTID. People are so picky with how they want their F-14. Everyone wants late development Tomcats that have more comforts making them easier to fly. Yet the fact is there was 557 F-14As, 38 F-14Bs & 37 F-14Ds. With 48 F-14As converted to F-14B type. So the large majority were A's.

 

 

Are your numbers 38 new build F-14Bs and 48 F-14Bs converted from As?

 

 

edit - Nevermind, wikipedia confirmed it. I was suddenly thinking that my belief that modelling a D version would be a waste due to low numbers was wrong on my part. Still, Bs came in much lower numbers than As.


Edited by Bad Idea Hat
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Well that's the purpose of it. That's why Heatblur is able to deliver two different variants in one module. If they would be vastly different it would require a lot of additional work and the module would either be much more expensive or it would result in two different modules.

 

I would rather wait for two different modules, I want the most definitive modules possible.

 

The A they are doing is very representative of F-14As But the B they’re doing is just a re-engined F-14A which while accurate, doesn’t highlight any other new things the B was able too do.

 

What I’m saying is; right now we basically are gonna get the exact same aircraft with different engines.

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Not to insult you, but you need to do some more research if you think that not having the Sparrowhawk or PTID is unrealistic for the implementation of the LANTIRN. The Sparrowhawk wasn't deployed until 2002, in limited numbers. Tomcats were still able to use the pod without the use of the PTID. People are so picky with how they want their F-14. Everyone wants late development Tomcats that have more comforts making them easier to fly. Yet the fact is there was 557 F-14As, 38 F-14Bs & 37 F-14Ds. With 48 F-14As converted to F-14B type. So the large majority were A's.

 

Don’t get me wrong I’m happy we’re getting the F-14A cause your right. There were more F-14As then any other version. And I love challenging aircraft to fly.

 

But I’d like a little bit more then just engines and a new RWR for the F-14B, also Lantirn in actual use required PTID. They were able to make it work in the fishbowl by interleaving the images, but that was a work around used for testing something like 20 aircraft used it that way and for less then 2 years

 

PTID was part of the A2G upgrade. And was installed specifically for Lantern and the SMS. Not having it is makes it the implementation of lantirn unrepresentative of the majority of F-14s that carried the pod.

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Don’t get me wrong I’m happy we’re getting the F-14A cause your right. There were more F-14As then any other version. And I love challenging aircraft to fly.

 

But I’d like a little bit more then just engines and a new RWR for the F-14B, also Lantirn in actual use required PTID. They were able to make it work in the fishbowl by interleaving the images, but that was a work around used for testing something like 20 aircraft used it that way and for less then 2 years

 

PTID was part of the A2G upgrade. And was installed specifically for Lantern and the SMS. Not having it is makes it the implementation of lantirn unrepresentative of the majority of F-14s that carried the pod.

 

Did the Tomcats in Desert Fox and Kosovo have PTID? They went to war with their LANTIRN pods and dropped plenty of Paveway II and III LGBs in 1998 and 1999. Afghanistan jets were PTID for sure, just don't know about the earlier ones.

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The Sparrowhawk B 'Cat would be nice, but I don't think not having it will be much of a handicap.

 

Sure, it will take some time to learn to "talk Turkey", but once you get used to the F-14 it will be like anything else.

 

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Did the Tomcats in Desert Fox and Kosovo have PTID? They went to war with their LANTIRN pods and dropped plenty of Paveway II and III LGBs in 1998 and 1999. Afghanistan jets were PTID for sure, just don't know about the earlier ones.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=204752

 

They would have, PTID got to the fleet in 97

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Don’t get me wrong I’m happy we’re getting the F-14A cause your right. There were more F-14As then any other version. And I love challenging aircraft to fly.

 

But I’d like a little bit more then just engines and a new RWR for the F-14B, also Lantirn in actual use required PTID. They were able to make it work in the fishbowl by interleaving the images, but that was a work around used for testing something like 20 aircraft used it that way and for less then 2 years

 

PTID was part of the A2G upgrade. And was installed specifically for Lantern and the SMS. Not having it is makes it the implementation of lantirn unrepresentative of the majority of F-14s that carried the pod.

 

Not quite true on the PTID comment. Lantirn worked best with the PTID, however it wasn't required. The D's never fully got the PTID and did a lot of Lantirn work.

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Not quite true on the PTID comment. Lantirn worked best with the PTID, however it wasn't required. The D's never fully got the PTID and did a lot of Lantirn work.

 

Not my point, and Lantirn integrates differently with the D. Since it got new computers and a new INS. And as was pointed out earlier, the Ds represented a very small fraction of the fleet, and of that fraction an even smaller fraction did not get PTID or at least before the whole F-14 program died. Probably because money was being spent retrofitting older aircraft first.

 

Again not representative of the tomcat as a whole.

 

The vast majority of F-14s that got Lantirn also got PTID as part of the A2G upgrade. Which only makes sense. Because Lantirn was used for more then just a TGP pod it also augmented the earlier aircraft’s INS, with GPS update functionality.

 

The upgrade also incorporated the AWG-15 fire control system which is a digital storage management system, allowing the RIO to set fuzes and control weapon release parameters in flight.


Edited by Wizard_03

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https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=204752

 

They would have, PTID got to the fleet in 97

 

Testing was completed in June1997 and the TD was issued- most likely as a depot TD during overhaul. They don't just show up the next day and get dropped in. I would bet that the upgrade was not completed across the fleet until late 1999 at the earliest. I'd need to read the TD though.

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The PTID was a part of the LANTIRN upgrade. With few exceptions, if a jet carried a LANTIRN it would have the PTID. F-14As that were modified for LANTIRN were also given the PTID.

 

I'm surprised to hear the Heatblur F-14B doesn't have the PTID; that is indeed not "realistic."

 

It's true the LANTIRN-equipped -Ds didn't get the PTID; they had a very different display arrangement altogether.


Edited by Jester2138
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The PTID was a part of the LANTIRN upgrade. With few exceptions, if a jet carried a LANTIRN it would have the PTID. F-14As that were modified for LANTIRN were also given the PTID.

 

I'm surprised to hear the Heatblur F-14B doesn't have the PTID; that is indeed not "realistic."

 

It's true the LANTIRN-equipped -Ds didn't get the PTID; they had a very different display arrangement altogether.

 

LANTIRN started integration in 1996- pods purchased and dispersed. PTID TESTING completes in mid 97 and then the integration STARTS. There is no way the fleet was completely integrated until 1999.

Our F-14B is circa 1996. Its accurate. the only way they fix this is by removing the LANTIRN. They have stated its a 1996 F-14B. There's no PTID according to history. There is LANTIRN. Figure it out.

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Goodness - to say something isn't representative one would have to throw a dart at a calendar on the wall to be specific. No disrespect, but this F-14A/B is "unrealistic" of when exactly?

 

Feel free to add to this:

1) Early F-14A

2) F-14A TARPS

3) F-14B

4) F-14A with LANTIRN

5) Early F-14D

6) F-14B (U) Upgrade (<--Sparrowhawk is here)

7) F-14D (U)

8 - Very Last F-14As (VF-154 with PTID mostly)


Edited by MRSHADO

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I think I have to write here my first comment after reading only:

It´s sure that F-14Bs of VF103 Jolly Rogers got LANTIRN pods beginning 1995, I have at least one photo of 204 onboard USS Enterprise in 1996; 1996 was the test year of VF103 with several pods; they moved to USS D.D. Eisenhower in 1997.

When the informations in the history books about PTID are right, then VF103 flew and tested LANTIRN in 1996 without PTID or the books are incorrect and they got it or some other display together with the pods.

 

 

You can google (Wiki) that; I know it, because I´m starting a 1/32 Trumpeter F-14B Bombcat build of 212 Jolly Rogers, BuNo 161428, late 1996 aboard CVN65 to bring my fav carrier and squadron insignia together. As usual I do a full research about my projects. So further input or discussion is welcome!


Edited by Foxmike
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PTID came about only because the TID could only display the imaging direct connected and shown at half resolution (interlaced or unused lines from the radar screen or TCS screen- correct me, only have this from reading info). So RIOs realized that while they had a large screen, the resolution wasn't great- that's why the Heatblur image looks pixelated- its accurate. The crews knew if they had a higher resolution display and updated databus, they could use the large screen with higher resolution and have no problem lazing a gnat on a window sill. PTID wasn't a part of it until LANTIRN was integrated and used and came about when they realized they could do better- mostly likely because the D guys had a better display and (possibly)could bomb more accurately.

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Let me put it this way, I’d like a 2005 F-14B with everything the F-14B was known for. NOT a 1997 F-14B with just the new engines

 

Then you want a broken F-14 at the end of its service life, with speed and G limitations out the wazoo, with wrinkled skin and dents all over.

 

I like my jets new with no limitations.- If they want to add the HUD and PTID later, great.

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PTID came about only because the TID could only display the imaging direct connected and shown at half resolution (interlaced or unused lines from the radar screen or TCS screen- correct me, only have this from reading info). So RIOs realized that while they had a large screen, the resolution wasn't great- that's why the Heatblur image looks pixelated- its accurate. The crews knew if they had a higher resolution display and updated databus, they could use the large screen with higher resolution and have no problem lazing a gnat on a window sill. PTID wasn't a part of it until LANTIRN was integrated and used and came about when they realized they could do better- mostly likely because the D guys had a better display and (possibly)could bomb more accurately.

 

There was more to the upgrade then just higher resolution. They wanted to turn the F-14 into a Strike Fighter, while it could carry the pod and bombs initially; the upgrade optimized it for that role.

 

PTID allowed for digital integration with the pylons. Paving the way for an expanded A2G capability like JDAMs for example. It also found its way to F-14As as well.

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Poor reliability, failing radar, 4G limit, not exceeding Mach 1.5 and breaking down on the catapult every other minute?

 

I don’t understand the pushback I’m getting here...having a later version would give people more content and more sim potential.

 

And we’re getting a F-14A for those who want an older version. The F-14B is inconic for A2G capability. Yet the version we’re getting is only a taste of what these upgrades allowed it too do. And doesn’t represent the majority of B cats


Edited by Wizard_03

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