HOTAS Cougar -modify or replace?

Hi Everyone,

Sorry for the long post, but I think the details are important.

I have my cougar since 2005, and still use it today. Around 2008 I lost functionality in the ANT ELEV rotary knob, and then with the throttle's pointer axis. I was unable to use them since then, but I continued using the cougar throttle none-the-less. In 2011 all of my pots (stick and throttle) began to spike, and I was unable to re-calibrate them properly anymore, so I ended up shopping online for other ones. A friend of mine helped me to replace them and they were okay until recently. Now I have spikes again and I decided, that perhaps it's time to retire the Cougar.

I saw that there is something called "Hall sensor" that is a total replacement of the conventional pots that are in the stick. And perhaps there is also a solution to the other knobs on the throttle that are unusable?

Should I pursue a retrofitting of the cougar, or just buy the Warthog instead?

I heard that the Warthog, despite it's excellent design and price tag, still uses some cheap components inside? I don't want to spend $500 on a joystick, just to experience similar issues after a couple of years..

Thanks for the help!

I would personally replace at this time if it were me.

I do have a Warthog, and with an extension it has been a great stick for me. Have been running the original gimbal base since I got the stick shortly after it's release several years ago and have not had any of the issues some of reported with the gimbal. I did have a button on the grip go bad, so bought another one off Ebay and just transferred it's grip over to my base.

The Warthog is pretty good and readily available, but there are a couple other offerings now as good alternatives, and their gimbal mechanisms appear to be quite an improvement over the Warthog's.

There is the VKB Gunfighter and Gunfighter Pro:

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product_cat=vkb-controllers

These would still require a separate throttle unit though currently, the Warthog throttle is also sold separately as well.

There is also the newer Virpil offering:

https://virpil.com/en/forum/news-announcements/9-announcing-the-vpc-mongoost-50

It as well currently requires a separate throttle unit, though they have plans to come out with one in the not too distant future.

I just received a Gunfighter and have not had a chance to set it up and try it out yet. I also have the Virpil offering on pre-order with the mounting bracket and extensions as well.

It will be interesting to see if one or both of the above will end up replacing my Warthog setup.

The VKB offerings are sold in batch runs, so not sure when the next one will be although I think I saw stated somewhere they may be offering up for another run here soon.

The Virpil offering I believe is still available to pre-order with a June anticipated delivery date.

And of course the Warthog should be readily available.

There are also a couple of threads here on this forum with some good feedback in them on both offerings:

Virpil T-50 Mongoose:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=180448

VKB Gunfighter:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179972

I've had no issues with the Warthog other than one cable coming off. It was an easy enough fix. I've not had any sticktion issue that people seem to clamor about either. Warthog is a solid choice and there were no equal when it came out. But now, a few things have changed. You can buy the throttle separately, and you have a choice of joysticks from Virpil and VKB that dburne pointed out. Of course, the Virpil base + stick will set you back about the same as a full Warthog setup (including the throttle).

So it comes down to how much you're willing to shell out for a new hotas system. If I had some money set aside, Today, I would entertain Virpil + Virpil base and a WH throttle. But you have to weigh that against the fact that you can pick up a WH system for $443 today on Amazon.

I don't think you'd lose either way.

... Now I have spikes again and I decided, that perhaps it's time to retire the Cougar.

I can relate to your experience ... I've had my Cougar since 2003 and each time that some component of it has failed, I've been making myself the same question about retiring it.

To date I've replaced the stick potentiometers twice each axis, and the throttle's been replace once. I've also replaced both X & Y gimbals when they have broken ... recently I purchased another pair og gimbals to keep as spares.

No other button or axis has failed yet ... tough I wonder how long can I expect a 14 year old device to last.

Why I have chosen, everytime, to repair rather than replace? ... the answer is that one of the Cougar's most endearing feature is its Foxy programming software; that makes it so easy to adapt the Cougar to different aircrafts and at the same time with much more versatility ... I havent traded into a Warthog because I couldnt get used to its Target software ... it transformed a pleasant experience into a hateful one :)

I saw that there is something called "Hall sensor" that is a total replacement of the conventional pots that are in the stick. And perhaps there is also a solution to the other knobs on the throttle that are unusable?

The knobs should be easy to fix, just have to get the proper replacement potentiometer .. Guillemot might still have some of them.

The hall sensors are basically improved potentiometers, but mounting them and link to the proper axis is quite a job, I'm not sure I would be able to do it, here is a sample:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2691313&postcount=35

Best regards

Rudel_chw,

Unless you have complicated scripts, you can use TM as a DX switches using one Target script. See this post.

Or you can go with Homefries (sticky I believe) script that's available for all planes and it's quite advanced.

If you live with Cougar bad gimbal all this time, probable will find Warthog (so so) gimbal wonderfull. :)

Search for stiction in this forum to understand better their gimbal "drama".

But today are better options, e.g. buy only VKB Gunfighter based and use the Cougar grip in this base through adapter.

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-sim-gunfighter-base-only

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-sim-tm-warthog-adapter-for-gunfighter

Or the incoming VirPil T-50 base.

Warhog throttle can be bough standalone.

VKB and ViPil eventuall will offer standalaone throttles.

Cougar TQS can be used as standalone USB throttle through TUSBA adapter:

http://realsimulator.com/html/tusba.html

But will require replace their pot' again. :)

As Rudder_CW point Cougar buttons has better quality than Warthog - there is just copper membranes over PCB, why some people trow the grip in garbage bin and buy another stick. :)

BTW - Tm sell their grip standalone ~$115.

.. Unless you have complicated scripts, you can use TM as a DX switches using one Target script.

Actually, for using a Cougar in DirectX mode nothing is necessary, since it defaults to that mode on boot up.

The problem is that DirectX mode is much less powerful than the Cougar's native mode; all of the clever programming tricks can be used only in native mode.

I've seen Homefries' scripts, but I like to make my own, since that way its easier to remember what button does what, and bind the commands using criteria that makes sense to me.

For example, do I try to mimic the real plane's Hotas, or do I go for having common functions on the same button across every aircraft? ... when you do the programming, the choice is yours :)

Actually, for using a Cougar in DirectX mode nothing is necessary, since it defaults to that mode on boot up.

 

 

The problem is that DirectX mode is much less powerful than the Cougar's native mode; all of the clever programming tricks can be used only in native mode.

 

 

I've seen Homefries' scripts, but I like to make my own, since that way its easier to remember what button does what, and bind the commands using criteria that makes sense to me.

 

 

For example, do I try to mimic the real plane's Hotas, or do I go for having common functions on the same button across every aircraft? ... when you do the programming, the choice is yours :)

The link I posted does a lot more than just DX (as you said, it's the default) It helps you create one TARGET script that you can use. I hear you about creating your own though.

Thanks for all the info and advice, highly appreciated!

I think I'm gonna pass on the Warthog, it just sounds like that although it looks neat, the internal components are the cheapest you can get, which is such a shame really.

So you got my interest in base grips etc. So I have a few questions.

- My Cougar stick is working perfectly fine (button wise), so if I purchase the VKB-sim Gunfighter base only, I can place my cougar stick on it? It will then solve my potentiometer issues and provide a base that will last for many years to come?

- The base only costs $259, I might as well buy the $299 Gunfighter and then have an extra stick, right? I can disassemble the gunfighter stick and place my cougar one.

- Will I be able to connect my Cougar TQS to the VKB base? Is there another standalone throttle that can be used, instead of the warthog one?

Thanks again!

-My Cougar stick is working perfectly fine (button wise), so if I purchase the VKB-sim Gunfighter base only, I can place my cougar stick on it? It will then solve my potentiometer issues and provide a base that will last for many years to come?

Yes, your Cougar grip will work with the base, but you must purchase the Vkb-Thrustmaster adapter shown here: https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-sim-tm-warthog-adapter-for-gunfighter

It says Warthog, but it will also work for the Cougar grip.

- The base only costs $259, I might as well buy the $299 Gunfighter and then have an extra stick, right? I can disassemble the gunfighter stick and place my cougar one.

Yes, exactly, as long as you buy the adapter.

- Will I be able to connect my Cougar TQS to the VKB base? Is there another standalone throttle that can be used, instead of the warthog one?

Unfortunately, no. The Cougar TQS uses a 15-pin connector that is not in use on the Gunfighter. You can either purchase an adapter that makes it stand alone USB (Realsimulator, per Sokol's suggestion), buy another throttle option (Warthog throttle standalone for example), use your existing Cougar and just have the stick set off to the side, or wait and see what VKB and Virpil come up with.

There are other options for standalone throttles, such as this: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28738-metal-throttle-consoles/#entry470815

GVL224 can build a custom throttle using you TQS grip:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/23758-iron-mechanic-throttle-motor-control-axes/page-2#entry455663

- Laser cut steel levers.

- Ball bearings in levers pivot.

- Contactless sensor in axis (can use pot in secondary axis).

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=147183

Other option for Cougar grip is Baur BRD-n (floor) or DS (seat level) bases:

http://www.mudspike.com/review-brd-n-black-stork-joystick/

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=758&start=270#p30641

And for spent less, Debolestis 3D printed "UberNXT" gimbal clone with ball bearings in pivots for upgrade in Cougar base - can use contactless sensor from GVL224 (above).

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3100793&postcount=244

Appreciate all the detailed explanation about the options. I did a fair amount of research, but I'm still on the fence.

Have Thurstmaster ever released an "updated" version of the Warthog, fixing some of the internal component issues that many people experienced, since the product launched about 7 years ago? Perhaps the newer (2016 onward) produced Warthogs include some improvements that they haven't advertised?

Is the basic 'factory' warranty that Thurstmaster provides include some of the known issues (mainly stickiness) or bad buttons? I couldn't find info on their website. Is it a one year warranty? A lot of US stores offer an extended warranty (for an additional fee) is it worth it?

The Mongoose and the Gunfighter seem great, but none provide a valid throttle in to make it a full HOTAS, and there are still months before such products appear. Does anyone use a Virpil / VKB stick with a Warthog throttle?

Thanks again.

The Warthog throttle can be used with any stick, since it has its own usb. I use one with various joysticks, including VKB Gunfighter, G940, and BRD-N without issue. Only caveat is you can't combine a non-Thrustmaster stick with the trottle in TARGET.

Have Thurstmaster ever released an "updated" version of the Warthog, fixing some of the internal component issues that many people experienced, since the product launched about 7 years ago? Perhaps the newer (2016 onward) produced Warthogs include some improvements that they haven't advertised?

Thrustmaster HOTAS cycle life is ~10 years (next HOTAS teased for 2020/21), so unless firmware update don't expect any change in internals in that period, more easy be applied ways to lower manufacturer cost that for improve the product.

Overall the product work well, so "If sold well, why change?";)