P-51D, not boring....

I didn't catch that one, but I saw a video of the same thing happening to Mikael Carlson in his super-accurate-replica Fokker Dr.I. Unexpected incipient spin at the top of a combat turn, immediate skillful recovery, and everyone left shaken but impressed. Hey, got a link to a video of the Mustang incident in question?

 

I'm afraid not, but I'm sure somebody will have it on video somewhere. It was a hot topic on several forums that night and the pilots, after landing, certainly seemed to have a long discussion about the incident after landing. The 3 Mustangs were having a Tailchase, with 'Velma' being the 3rd aircraft. The first Mustang climbed and rolled right, the second Mustang climbed and rolled left. Velma climbed and initially rolled left, but then tried to correct and follow the first Mustang. At the top of that wing over, you could see the aircraft slip, right on the edge of the stall. Luckily, the pilot must have realised and managed to regain sufficient airspeed before the aircraft spun. It was certainly a tense moment for those who saw it, let alone the pilot! As I said, a none incident really, but the skill and reactions of the pilot certainly prevented a dangerous situation becoming a potentially lethal one.

 

Considering that all these warbirds are operated well within their limits, it goes to show that even in careful operation by experience pilots, they can still bite.

 

[Pilots on the ground, immediately after landing, discussing the incident. Lot's of hand gestures explaining how they did what and who should have done what were seen.]

 

Yeah. I don't have a link, but I saw a video with an interview with Mr. Carlson, and he said that the spin took him by surprise. Happily, he's an excellent pilot and very experienced with his replicas (which he builds himself).

 

By the way, I added to my previous post a link to the video of his accidental stall.

Yeah. I don't have a link, but I saw a video with an interview with Mr. Carlson, and he said that the spin took him by surprise. Happily, he's an excellent pilot and very experienced with his replicas (which he builds himself).

 

Indeed, I've seen Mr Carlson and his replicas fly many times and always enjoyed the display that he puts on. That was quite a spin, but again, experience proved to be reliable and the situation was resolved quickly :)

Shock of Shocks. Aircraft are difficult to fly. Who'd have thought it. I wondered why it was so expensive to get my license in real life. Who'd have though if I could do it in Wings of Prey and be a WWII Ace with little practice it wouldn't just be the same in real life (I haven't ever and never would play WoP BTW).

 

Ok, real life mode back on. Bloody hell that was difficult, it took me an age to get my take off, circuits and landings right in a Tiger Moth. I wasn't much better in a modern tricycle undercarriage immediately.

 

DCS is close, and I've flown a couple of near warbird like aircraft in real life (Harvard and Chipmunk) and a few jets plus a couple helicopters. The one thing every pilot here will tell you is this though. If you can do it here, even with the fidelity of DCS don't assume you can do it out here in the real world.

Seat of the pants, real control forces, real cable/hydraulic/fly by wire controls, wind, atmospherics, rising air, descending air, turbulence, that pillock in the A109 ahead creating some nice turbulence as he hovers at the threshold whilst you turn final all make for an experience that wont ever be replicated fully, even in full motion flight simulators, the real feel of flying and the pleasure a good job of doing it gives one.

 

if you think DCS isn't right buy some time on a real simulator (I've had a go at the BA 747, the RAF Harrier and Typhoon ones) and even they don't feel right. Simulation is always going to be that, no matter how good, its still a simulation.

 

Anyone who say its not right, unless they have hours on the Mustang, doesn't know what they're talking about. Simple. Even the good ones amongst us (and I don't count myself in that group by the way) get bitten by an aircraft now and then as the guys did at Duxford. Those incident don't make you a bad pilot, they make you a better one and in his case had he slammed into the deck he wouldn't have hit "Fly Again" and been on the grass ready to roll again would he?

 

In the end that's the real difference :) try spending $40 and the 1st time you crash it and scrap the aircraft, let alone kill yourself, see how you feel having to spend another $40 to fly another one :)

In the end that's the real difference :) try spending $40 and the 1st time you crash it and scrap the aircraft, let alone kill yourself, see how you feel having to spend another $40 to fly another one :)

 

Yeah, for the hourly instructor fee.. I hope..

Look at the buffet, stay at the edge all the time and you never stall or stall very mild. Do not bend input curves - you will have trained right joystick handle very soon and the bent input destroys right feeling of the plane.

 

Yo-Yo, do you mean do not add curve to pitch and roll axis for all DCS planes? If so then why not because I feel that unless one is using a high-end stick with hall sensors then curve in the pitch axis is a must. In fact, I just went and try to fly the stang without any curve I was left with a millimeters of pull. Any force beyond that the plane goes into a stall.

Nothing like a negative post to bring out the geeks who have nothing else to do with their lives.

 

Anyway......Yeah...this thing is hardly worth the time. And 4 hours is planty of time on it. I have flown Xplane, FSX, and even Lockon, I have sat with pilots in planes and seen how the plane reacts. This P51 flies like a 172.

 

As far as the controls....how do you even know your air speed??? The Horizen is waaay off. I have it all leveled out in the plane and I'm climbing when I do the outside view. You cannot see or identify (without scrolling all over the damn cockpit with multiple buttons) any of your controls. The view options are horrible.

 

If there is a way to adjust the joystic...like everything else in this thing it either doesn't work or they've hid it to the point that you just don't want to mess with it.

 

It's a shame because visually...this is a great game. It would have a lot of potential. But as usual, DCS saw fit to overcomplicate it to the point of utter uselessness.

If there is a way to adjust the joystic...like everything else in this thing it either doesn't work or they've hid it to the point that you just don't want to mess with it.

 

 

Going to the Options screen, selecting Controls, then Axis and Axis Tune; is too difficult to find? Wow!!! :doh:

Nothing like a negative post to bring out the geeks who have nothing else to do with their lives.

 

Anyway......Yeah...this thing is hardly worth the time. And 4 hours is planty of time on it. I have flown Xplane, FSX, and even Lockon, I have sat with pilots in planes and seen how the plane reacts. This P51 flies like a 172.

 

As far as the controls....how do you even know your air speed??? The Horizen is waaay off. I have it all leveled out in the plane and I'm climbing when I do the outside view. You cannot see or identify (without scrolling all over the damn cockpit with multiple buttons) any of your controls. The view options are horrible.

 

If there is a way to adjust the joystic...like everything else in this thing it either doesn't work or they've hid it to the point that you just don't want to mess with it.

 

It's a shame because visually...this is a great game. It would have a lot of potential. But as usual, DCS saw fit to overcomplicate it to the point of utter uselessness.

 

still in beta :doh:

Nothing like a negative post to bring out the geeks who have nothing else to do with their lives.

 

Anyway......Yeah...this thing is hardly worth the time. And 4 hours is planty of time on it. I have flown Xplane, FSX, and even Lockon, I have sat with pilots in planes and seen how the plane reacts. This P51 flies like a 172.

 

As far as the controls....how do you even know your air speed??? The Horizen is waaay off. I have it all leveled out in the plane and I'm climbing when I do the outside view. You cannot see or identify (without scrolling all over the damn cockpit with multiple buttons) any of your controls. The view options are horrible.

 

If there is a way to adjust the joystic...like everything else in this thing it either doesn't work or they've hid it to the point that you just don't want to mess with it.

 

It's a shame because visually...this is a great game. It would have a lot of potential. But as usual, DCS saw fit to overcomplicate it to the point of utter uselessness.

 

:megalol: Nothing like insulting the people who have been trying to help you...

 

4 Hours is no where near enough time to adapt to a sim as complex as DCS. No offence, but Xplane, FSX and Lockon could be flown with your eyes closed... 1 button to start, not complex systems modelling etc... (A2A's accusim is a new development and is great, but it's a shame it's in such a poor base sim :/ ) The artificial horizon works perfectly is you set it right, try looking at you climb and decent guage ;) I can honestly say, I have no issues operating this aircraft and I only use the hatswitch on my joystick to look around the pit and select switches.

 

I think, gentlemen, that what we're seeing here is several people coming to a super realistic sim that find it offensive that they can't just push a button and go fly any more. I mean, how horrible must it be to actually have to put some effort into something to fly it correctly? A pure sign of the Call of Duty generation... Now, run along Zimmerdylan and go play on your Xbox, or is that too complicated for you, too? :joystick: :lol:

Chuckles at the "four hours should be enough to master a real P-51" attitude. Also at changing his tune from "You stall or lose control of the craft almost instantly.....constantly" to the "this flies like a 172." I think that the latter is an attempt at covering the revealing former.

 

The man has a point about the views system and GUI (they're more than a bit clunky), but I can hardly believe how absurd the rest of his statements are. Particularly that 180-degree somersault from "too hard to fly" to "too easy to fly." WTH? Why not just be honest and stick to the original "it's too hard for me," instead of trying to backpedal and go with the "boring" story (read: can't handle it but don't want to admit it)?

Edited September 19, 2012 by Echo38

Anyway......Yeah...this thing is hardly worth the time. And 4 hours is planty of time on it. I have flown Xplane, FSX, and even Lockon, I have sat with pilots in planes and seen how the plane reacts. This P51 flies like a 172.

So have I, I am a pilot, and the P-51 in this game most certainly does not fly like a 172, or an Archer, or an Sr-20, or a King 350, or any of the other planes I have flown/am rated in/have been checked out it. It flies like a P-51D.

 

As far as the controls....how do you even know your air speed??? The Horizen is waaay off. I have it all leveled out in the plane and I'm climbing when I do the outside view. You cannot see or identify (without scrolling all over the damn cockpit with multiple buttons) any of your controls. The view options are horrible.

Try looking for the gauge that says "Airspeed". That would be your airspeed indicator. It is located just below your dash to the left. Easy enough to spot. And as in real life, the attitude indicator does NOT indicate a level attitude. It indicates your gyroscopic attitude relative to level. The little bar is adjustable and can be set to whatever angle you want depending on your current configuration (This is because level AoA changes depending on your loading/airspeed).

 

If there is a way to adjust the joystic...like everything else in this thing it either doesn't work or they've hid it to the point that you just don't want to mess with it.

Options menu.

 

It's a shame because visually...this is a great game. It would have a lot of potential. But as usual, DCS saw fit to overcomplicate it to the point of utter uselessness.

It isn't all the complicated, and the menu's are laid out in a logical manner. If you need help finding anything though, feel free to ask. Don't insult the game though, it has feelings too! :D

Yo-Yo, do you mean do not add curve to pitch and roll axis for all DCS planes? If so then why not because I feel that unless one is using a high-end stick with hall sensors then curve in the pitch axis is a must. In fact, I just went and try to fly the stang without any curve I was left with a millimeters of pull. Any force beyond that the plane goes into a stall.

 

I'm in agreement with Yo-Yo; I've always (ever since my first time flying a real airplane) said that joystick curves & deadzones are bad. A few millimeters is all you should need to do a turn in an airplane with a sensitive elevator (such as a P-51); in a real airplane, you barely move the control stick during normal flight (that is, you barely move the stick at all unless you're doing aerobatics or something).

Nothing like a negative post to bring out the geeks who have nothing else to do with their lives.

 

Anyway......Yeah...this thing is hardly worth the time. And 4 hours is planty of time on it. I have flown Xplane, FSX, and even Lockon, I have sat with pilots in planes and seen how the plane reacts. This P51 flies like a 172.

I've flown all of the above. DCS beats them all by miles, especially when it comes to things like stalls.

 

As far as the controls....how do you even know your air speed??? The Horizen is waaay off. I have it all leveled out in the plane and I'm climbing when I do the outside view. You cannot see or identify (without scrolling all over the damn cockpit with multiple buttons) any of your controls. The view options are horrible.

At this point I take it you didn't read the manual, which clearly explains the controls, gauges, and how to use them. I don't know how you're going to tell if you're climbing or not from the outside, there is nothing there to provide that info (well, besides the altitude display, but that's replicated in the P-51 cockpit along with Rate of Climb). Incidently, when my RoC says 0, I'm level.

 

 

If there is a way to adjust the joystic...like everything else in this thing it either doesn't work or they've hid it to the point that you just don't want to mess with it.

You've been given multiple ways to adjust the stick in this thread, and yes it works.

 

It's a shame because visually...this is a great game. It would have a lot of potential. But as usual, DCS saw fit to overcomplicate it to the point of utter uselessness.

You just might not be cut out for simulators.

I didn't catch that one, but I saw a video of the same thing happening to Mikael Carlson in his super-accurate-replica Fokker Dr.I. ...

 

Now that is a hands on plane! A plane that has no stability whatsoever and is constantly trying to spin and flip. Makes the Mustang look like a dressage pony by comparison.

Watched one once do what could best be called a back flip rather than a loop. Most impressive manouver I have ever seen a plane do.

Now that is a hands on plane! A plane that has no stability whatsoever and is constantly trying to spin and flip. Makes the Mustang look like a dressage pony by comparison.

Watched one once do what could best be called a back flip rather than a loop. Most impressive manouver I have ever seen a plane do.

 

Aircraft with high torque and low weight can do a maneuver known as a lomcovak. It is where the airspeed gets slow enough that the engine can create a yawing moment (via torque) that literally cranks the aircraft around on its axis.

 

 

The P-51D can probably not do this, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone made it happen either.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Pyroflash

I've been told that "lomcevak" can loosely be translated to "drunken tumble." [grin] Don't know if that's true, but it wouldn't surprise me.

As I understand it, it relies on a pitch-down motion at slow speed to produce enough gyroscopic precession from the propeller & engine torque to cause a dramatic yaw, which combines with the initial down-pitching to create the dramatic effect. That sound about right?

Edited September 19, 2012 by Echo38

Re: OP, I'm finding new challenges every day. Just spent a week learning a new landing technique and I'm looking forward to when all aspects of the engine (overheating, WEP, etc.) are modeled in the next release. Even more challenges in store. That keeps me flying and it's far from boring.

Nothing like a negative post to bring out the geeks who have nothing else to do with their lives.

 

Anyway......Yeah...this thing is hardly worth the time. And 4 hours is planty of time on it. I have flown Xplane, FSX, and even Lockon, I have sat with pilots in planes and seen how the plane reacts. This P51 flies like a 172.

 

As far as the controls....how do you even know your air speed??? The Horizen is waaay off. I have it all leveled out in the plane and I'm climbing when I do the outside view. You cannot see or identify (without scrolling all over the damn cockpit with multiple buttons) any of your controls. The view options are horrible.

 

If there is a way to adjust the joystic...like everything else in this thing it either doesn't work or they've hid it to the point that you just don't want to mess with it.

 

It's a shame because visually...this is a great game. It would have a lot of potential. But as usual, DCS saw fit to overcomplicate it to the point of utter uselessness.

 

Optioned out....:doh:

There seems to be always a know it all ..out there...

It would have a lot of potential. But as usual, DCS saw fit to overcomplicate it..

 

lmao.

But as usual, DCS saw fit to overcomplicate it to the point of utter uselessness.

 

I believe you have North American Aviation to blame for most of the complication, and I think that a rather large number of pilots (on both sides) would disagree with your opinion that the complication resulted in the aircraft in question being useless.

I've been told that "lomcevak" can loosely be translated to "drunken tumble." [grin] Don't know if that's true, but it wouldn't surprise me.

As I understand it, it relies on a pitch-down motion at slow speed to produce enough gyroscopic precession from the propeller & engine torque to cause a dramatic yaw, which combines with the initial down-pitching to create the dramatic effect. That sound about right?

 

Yeah, you are absolutely right.

Man this thread was a good laugh.

Man this thread was a good laugh.

 

Indeed, thoroughly enjoyable :lol: