Thank you ED for the new AI!

I always encounter the endless looping, this needs to be fixed, this worked better in 1.2 and 1.5

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I always encounter the endless looping, this needs to be fixed, this worked better in 1.2 and 1.5

 

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Same here. Weapon Aiming and aggressiveness tuning aside, I think people are seeing some placebo effect in regards to ‚improved‘ A.I.

As soon as you get into a semi-advantageous position the AI is back to loop after loop after loop.

Combined with the often lacking flight model of the A.I. aircraft it is one of the areas that really could use significant improvement.

Regards,

Snappy

Yeah, looping loop always. tested agaist F-5 and F-16. It always end up a in vertical loops... i remember it wasn't that bad in the past

Whether the AI gets trapped in that looping-loop is dependent on how you approach the AI. If you get very close to their six, then the AI looses its creativity and just starts looping, but from slightly different angles you can see some interesting AI maneuvers. So currently the AI improvements are not always visible.

Whether the AI gets trapped in that looping-loop is dependent on how you approach the AI. If you get very close to their six, then the AI looses its creativity and just starts looping, but from slightly different angles you can see some interesting AI maneuvers. So currently the AI improvements are not always visible.

And how to gun him without closing on his 6 ? :)

Set up a OBFM 6k or 3k perch and it is a loop from the start. From High aspect WVR BFM as long as he is loosing the fight he is in a loop, and if on excelent, he can sustain so much energy that you barely catch f-5 with f-16 in a vertical loop :)

There are different ways for being at the bandit's 6. 6 oclock is just a rough description that you are behind someone. I have yet to find out what exactly triggers the endless AI looping-loops, but in some cases they make some nice maneuvers other than just looping, even when you approach them from their 6 (at least for WW2 aircraft this is true).

On the other hand though, once the AI got in that loop, it will not stop unless its pursuer stops being on its 6 or when the AI runs out of fuel.

There are different ways for being at the bandit's 6. 6 oclock is just a rough description that you are behind someone. I have yet to find out what exactly triggers the endless AI looping-loops, but in some cases they make some nice maneuvers other than just looping, even when you approach them from their 6 (at least for WW2 aircraft this is true).

 

On the other hand though, once the AI got in that loop, it will not stop unless its pursuer stops being on its 6 or when the AI runs out of fuel.

Sure, I am not saying you are wrong. I also don't know much about how it does in war birds - it might be better there. Last time I flew war birds was year ago and AI was doing a lot of vertical B&Z.

But in F-5 and F-16 I end up in vertical in pretty much all engagements that I win. There are not many ways to get in to the GUN WEZ... align TC - Enter CZ - pull lead. Any time I get close to CZ he starts vertical loop.

Regardless, I am sure ED are working on improving it, so hopefully soon :)

Will there be additional improvements to the AI? It's really boring(and easy) dog fighting against it, always ends up in a loop or scissor. BMS AI manages to amaze me, jinks and behaves very realistic, you can always predict where he will be based on the current energy state, in DCS, AI seem to fly like an UFO gaining speed in the most wierd situations.

Will there be additional improvements to the AI? It's really boring(and easy) dog fighting against it, always ends up in a loop or scissor. BMS AI manages to amaze me, jinks and behaves very realistic, you can always predict where he will be based on the current energy state, in DCS, AI seem to fly like an UFO gaining speed in the most wierd situations.

Well I hope that A.I. behavior gets a major overhaul soon, along with the A.I. flight models, as it really is in an awful state and has been for a long time.Really disappointing for a simulator that supposedly mainly caters to its single player majority of customers.

Really dont get why this isn‘t given much higher priority..

Regards,

Snappy

AI is already slated to get a new FM, but as with all the FMs in DCS they are complex, and to make the AI work with our FMs will take some time and a lot of coding, it is most certainly planned.

Ok, meanwhile at least it could be fixed/improved the fact of having UFO fighters with infinite vertical loopings while dogfight, in ACE level is totally unrealistic what AI can do

I am still waiting to get a pilot head and eye movements simulated, as in any vehicle.

Meaning there should be same FOV scanning as radar does, but just much narrower (1.5-2°) and it shouldn't be magically locking, but require X period to look at correct position.

In two seaters it would be two scanning, where WSO would stay looking at target while pilot does checking instruments etc between maneuvers.

It would require pilots to really avoid getting someone at rear as their maneuvering and spotting weakens.

Thanks NineLine. For laughs, here's part of the problem. From The MiG-15bis SFM first line by Mach numbers where v=0 is Mach=0.

table_data =

{-- M Cx0* Cya* B2 B4 Omxmax Aldop* Cymax*

{ 0.0, 0.018, 0.067, 0.074, 0.01 , 0.372, 17.3, 1.1},

Cymax is the max lift coefficient. When v=0 Lift=0 so it is impossible for the lift coefficient ever to be anymore than zero when v=0. This can be said for all the values in this first row (cx and cy)where v=0. That is where I think the Sputnik like handling comes from at low speed in the vertical or around acceleration from slow and so on. Cymax should = 0 when Mach = 0. At least that's what I've figured out. If I goofed please let me know. ;)

That is kinda what the new FM is for, so that the AI is better limited by real physics, although I can't say I have ever seen infinite vertical loops in any dogfights I have done.

To clarify: He means not a infinite vertical flight, but AI continuing to go inverted.

I have myself a simple MiG-29S vs F-14B training mission where I start at 9'clock position and 1500 meters from F-14, at the same speed of 800 km/h (50% fuel on F-14, 75% on MiG).

And the first thing the F-14 does regardless what I do, is to go vertical and then pull over me to get at rear. And if I do not start turning with it, it will end to continuous vertical looping competition, but if I do start turning inside it will end up to slow speed scissors where the F-14 will fly below 250 km/h doing perfect turns, but if I slow down, then it puts full afterburner and goes to vertical and then again loops.

The AI might break the looping here and then by going to take speed at wide radius turn, but it is not done often.

The problem really is that the AI gets so easily to missile or gun solution situation by trying to just go slow speed vertical competition. And in Su-27 it is easiest to kill as the F-14 can't compete with it in vertical fight at all.

So it does become little boring to fight the AI when their most common maneuver for anything is "I go vertical" and I can almost hear “I'm gonna hit the brakes, he'll fly right by” through my headphones...

The AI is a lot better now than it was before the new one, but there really could be more of other kind maneuvers and tactics used often than going vertical.

This is why there are wishes in the wishlist to have a possibility record "ghost driver" for compete against yourself or make a acrobatics alone. So you fly, hit record and the aircraft position etc is recorded as ghost, that you can then put an AI to repeat or even take a section of it and make it a maneuver to imitate (try to pull it as much possible in aerodynamic limits).

Like one could make a library of maneuvers that could be given for AI to combine dynamically.

@Fri13

The idea is nice but wouldn't AI aircraft need our FM and not AI flight model first of all?

SinX/X = ? as X=0

Undefined? What do you want to say?