Jump to content

Spotting Aircraft


Scottvdken

Recommended Posts

Maybe a small red/blue circle to ID the planes at a distance. Like a "O"

 

 

Don't need labels, they just clutter up the screen.

 

Why see planes at distance instread of at close?

My DCS modding videos:

 

Modules I own so far:

Black Shark 2, FC3, UH-1H, M-2000C, A-10C, MiG-21, Gazelle, Nevada map

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Maybe a small red/blue circle to ID the planes at a distance. Like a "O"

 

 

Don't need labels, they just clutter up the screen.

 

please no, this isn't warthunder!

Just a way to realistically represent how an aircraft would appear at a distance regarless of resolution or display size (like a slider for the pixel density of your screen).

Also don't forget that planes are pretty hard to spot IRL, that's why most country require perfect vision for army pilots. It shouldn't be easy or '' pop out '' you should have to focus a bit !

Rafale is the best fighter in the world fight me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

please no, this isn't warthunder!

Just a way to realistically represent how an aircraft would appear at a distance regarless of resolution or display size (like a slider for the pixel density of your screen).

Also don't forget that planes are pretty hard to spot IRL, that's why most country require perfect vision for army pilots. It shouldn't be easy or '' pop out '' you should have to focus a bit !

 

 

More than a bit. If you listen to pilot interviews (even airline pilots) they generally say spotting is incredibly difficult. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes you can know right where to look and still never see the other plane, even with a few thousand feet. That, to me, sounds a lot like DCS currently.

 

 

 

Commercial pilots talk about how difficult it can be to see a 737 at 2 miles at the same altitude and with controllers telling them where to look! Spotting small jets in a combat environment that are flying 1000ft AGL is SUPPOSED to be hard!


Edited by Xordus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

More than a bit. If you listen to pilot interviews (even airline pilots) they generally say spotting is incredibly difficult. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes you can know right where to look and still never see the other plane, even with a few thousand feet. That, to me, sounds a lot like DCS currently.

 

 

 

Commercial pilots talk about how difficult it can be to see a 737 at 2 miles at the same altitude and with controllers telling them where to look! Spotting small jets in a combat environment that are flying 1000ft AGL is SUPPOSED to be hard!

 

Spot on! :thumbup:

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More than a bit. If you listen to pilot interviews (even airline pilots) they generally say spotting is incredibly difficult. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes you can know right where to look and still never see the other plane, even with a few thousand feet. That, to me, sounds a lot like DCS currently.

 

You don't have to listen to "pilot interviews".. you can use your own eyes in the real world to see how far away you can see an aircraft.

 

Against the sky, I can see a twin-engined civil airliner easily at 15 to 20km distant.

In DCS, I have to narrow the FoV down so far in order to see something at that range, that it makes tracking it impossible.


Edited by philstyle
  • Like 1

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Against the sky, I can see a twin-engined civil airliner easily at 15 to 20km distant.

In DCS, I have to narrow the FoV down so far in order to see something at that range, that it makes tracking it impossible.

 

Thats because you are looking on a screen with a wrong fov to begin with. If you would use a fov which would compensate between the plane cockpit and the real world you would endup with a fov around 15-30° depending on monitor size and how far you away from it. That's where all the distances would match like in the real world, you standing on the ground watching at an airliner. But the human eye can focus on different distances that's still something you cannot simply achieve on a screen and also its quite hard to play on such a low fov if you don't use triple screens or projectors. So the bigger your fov gets everything else gets smaller and also by feel faster.

Specs:WIN10, I7-4790K, ASUS RANGER VII, 16GB G.Skill DDR3, GEFORCE 1080, NVME SSD, SSD, VIRPIL T-50 THROTTLE, K-51 COLLECTIVE, MS FFB2 (CH COMBATSTICK MOD), MFG CROSSWINDS, JETPAD, RIFT S

Modules:A10C, AH-64D, AJS-37, AV8B, BF109K4, CA, F/A18C, F14, F5EII, F86F, FC3, FW190A8, FW190D9, KA50, L39, M2000C, MI8TV2, MI24P, MIG15BIS, MIG19P, MIG21BIS, MIRAGE F1, P51D, SA342, SPITFIRE, UH1H, NORMANDY, PERSIAN GULF, CHANNEL, SYRIA
 
Thrustmaster TWCS Afterburner Detent
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=223776
 
My Frankenwinder ffb2 stick
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
03/06/2019.

 

2019

 

No news

 

 

Yep. They just released the F-14, but the game is still unplayable cause you can't even see a plane just in front of you even if the RIO is shouting at you were it is. You can only play it offline and with labels on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

CAN ANYBODY GIVE US ANY INFO ABOUT THIS???

 

ARE YOU GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING THERE IS NO CHANCE TO SE ANY IMPROVMENT ON THE SPOTTING SISTEM?

 

THANKS

[sIGPIC]http://www.settimostormo.it/images/Firme/racetrack.png[/sIGPIC]

"Volare è utile, atterrare è necessario"

"Se non guardi a ore 6 almeno ogni 5 secondi non parlarmi di combattimento aereo, piuttosto fai il comico"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CAN ANYBODY GIVE US ANY INFO ABOUT THIS???

 

ARE YOU GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING THERE IS NO CHANCE TO SE ANY IMPROVMENT ON THE SPOTTING SISTEM?

 

THANKS

 

SeriousGranularAmericancreamdraft-size_restricted.gif

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

- Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

 

| Windows 11 | i5-12400 | 64Gb DDR4 | RTX 3080 | 2x M.2 | 27" 1440p | Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind pedals |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As others have stated, many here are way overestimating the range at which they feel entitled to see aircraft.

Comparisons of seeing airliners at long ranges (which depending on condidtions can also be very hard to spot) are not very fitting.

 

Consider that military fighters are not meant to be seen. They are significantly smaller and typically painted in colours that are specifically designed to reduce visibility.

 

This paper is an interesting discussion on the topic of aircraft spotting:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0005594

 

This graph in particular should be of great interest to us:

 

journal.pone.0005594.g016&size=large

 

Note the huge difference in visibility of a 747 vs an F-16.

 

While I wouldn't say the aircraft spotting in DCS can't be improved upon, as it is now, I think the spotting pretty accurately reflects the difficulty of spotting aircraft in real life. After all, they're not invisible. Flying on WW2 and Cold War servers where spotting is very important, I tend to see aircraft at the ranges more or less where they would be expected to be seen. That being said, I think they can definitely work on having aircraft glint or be darkly silhouetted in corresponding lighting conditions.


Edited by Boris

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As others have stated, many here are way overestimating the range at which they feel entitled to see aircraft.

Comparisons of seeing airliners at long ranges (which depending on condidtions can also be very hard to spot) are not very fitting.

 

Consider that military fighters are not meant to be seen. They are significantly smaller and typically painted in colours that are specifically designed to reduce visibility.

 

This paper is an interesting discussion on the topic of aircraft spotting:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0005594

 

This graph in particular should be of great interest to us:

 

journal.pone.0005594.g016&size=large

 

Note the huge difference in visibility of a 747 vs an F-16.

 

While I wouldn't say the aircraft spotting in DCS can't be improved upon, as it is now, I think the spotting pretty accurately reflects the difficulty of spotting aircraft in real life. After all, they're not invisible. Flying on WW2 and Cold War servers where spotting is very important, I tend to see aircraft at the ranges more or less where they would be expected to be seen. That being said, I think they can definitely work on having aircraft glint or be darkly silhouetted in corresponding lighting conditions.

 

Very nice study.

 

And in real life in wich resolution are you watching for line planes?

 

1080p? 720P?

 

Because the problem here isn't the super real feeling of the game BUT it's the obligation to play at maximum 720p to see anybody..

There are peolple gaming with VR, people on 4k, peolpe on 2k, people on 720p and HD...

 

Are they seeing exaclty the same?

 

-NO-

[sIGPIC]http://www.settimostormo.it/images/Firme/racetrack.png[/sIGPIC]

"Volare è utile, atterrare è necessario"

"Se non guardi a ore 6 almeno ogni 5 secondi non parlarmi di combattimento aereo, piuttosto fai il comico"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont use labels on Burning Skies anymore, only then you get used to spotting in DCS. It's not that bad and I can clearly see WWII planes 20+ km out.

 

Those pop up labels kill everything. Traffic sign to the next furball, just let's all meet over there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I wouldn't say the aircraft spotting in DCS can't be improved upon, as it is now, I think the spotting pretty accurately reflects the difficulty of spotting aircraft in real life. After all, they're not invisible.

 

 

That argument would hold for DCS if the liveries had an impact on long-range contact visibiliy. But they don't.

 

Put a DCS aircraft in a pure-white livery (like a civilian aircraft) and conduct a range-visibility test. Then put the same aircraft in a camouflage livery and re-do the tests. The "1-pixel" contact becomes visible at the same range in either case.

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont use labels on Burning Skies anymore, only then you get used to spotting in DCS. It's not that bad and I can clearly see WWII planes 20+ km out.

 

Those pop up labels kill everything. Traffic sign to the next furball, just let's all meet over there.

 

Yes I can clearly see dots 20 km + out too, but with the terrain as background I cannot see anything unless it ram me...

 

And when I say "unless it RAM me i'm not joking", it happened many times that I was following a plane straight behind 200 meters away or less and PUFF, plane disappear in the trees..

 

Planes aro 10 meters wide or so, how can it disappear from my eye at such a low distance?

 

Never had this problem in any other sim, pretty frustating

[sIGPIC]http://www.settimostormo.it/images/Firme/racetrack.png[/sIGPIC]

"Volare è utile, atterrare è necessario"

"Se non guardi a ore 6 almeno ogni 5 secondi non parlarmi di combattimento aereo, piuttosto fai il comico"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd be curious to know what "Aircraft contrast" actually is or how its measured. Presumably 1.0 is against a clear sky or something like that, but its not actually clear to me what it means in other cases.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aside from the problem with the render distance of the last remaining pixel, which obviously has a big impact depending on resolution and screen size, I feel there is more.

 

  • What's the monitors resolution (fix: upscale the "pixel" (e.g. 2x2 on a 4k))
  • How clean is the display (fix: clean it)
  • Is the display set up correctly (fix, set it up correctly)
  • Does the display suffer from ghosting etc. (fix, buy a proper display)

Now comes the harder parts:

 

  • What's the ppi of the display (fix: super hard, you'd have to build a database of displays and take their PPI into account - low PPI displays will always have an advantage in combat and be ugly in everything else)
  • calculate a proper model that includes variables like size, angle, color, contrast and reflections. (fix: hard but possible: enhance the engine)
  • DCS lacks sense of depth and altitude. It's because it actually is in a very uncanny valley in terms of displaying real ground detail.
    It's much easier/better in other simulators and it got worse on the new map technology. (fix: better details, use modern rendering technology for ground imperfections and clutter through streaming as well as optimizing rendering by making heavy use of tesselation e.g.)
    This is actually a very interesting point since it doesn't just affect spotting but also the general viewing pleasure as well as massively improved gameplay for low altitude airframes.
    Also it's not dependent on map size. In fact there is whole world simulations with more detail on a map than DCS but on a global scale. It's more a question of how technology is being used.
  • Lastly: VR users will always have it easier (not harder as many are believing) with spotting since the simulation of depth makes it easier to "unsee" the canopy.
    That is because (depending on your IPD) your vision can easily blend out an object even the size of 1cm wide at a distance of up to 40-50cm. You can test this easily by holding out your finger and reading text on your screen.
    (This is unfixable as flat monitors will not be able to render depth)


Edited by Madfish

Best regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...