What is the difference between the 'new' F-16C grip and the A-10C Warthog one?

I feel bad for new people who buy the F-16 stick and Warthog base when they could have just bought the Warthog base and stick a lot cheaper. I'm sure TM thought of this too and are laughing.

I feel bad for new people who buy the F-16 stick and Warthog base when they could have just bought the Warthog base and stick a lot cheaper. I'm sure TM thought of this too and are laughing.

Don´t think so. I think TM just realised, that separate grips and bases sell better than the complete package. Not everyone is willing/able to afford a Virpil or Realsimulator base after the TM base broke (and they do sometimes), so people are either buying a new Stick (base + grip) or try to repair it if TM doesen´t sell them a base as spare part. I believe most people won´t buy a new Stick, but rather try to repair it or even save a bit more money to get a different base. They propably got a lot of requests for base only or grip only. Also i think the DCS: F-16C module propably draws a lot of people with non TM bases to TM´s customer service asking for the grip only. Selling the base separately is just a way to keep customers and not having them buy a base from a different manufactor and selling the grip separately is meant to reach customers using already other bases. At least thats what i think it is...

VPR.........You don't understand the greed of TM. I'm positive someone new to TM will buy the base and F-16 stick thinking they're getting a specific F-16 setup without realizing they could have just bought the Warthog stick with base cheaper. Then they'll buy the throttle separate and end up spending much more money overall.

There's little doubt TM knows this.

You got me wrong. What i was trying to say is, that TM just want´s to make more money by offering the grip and base separately due to this sells better. It´s not like i´m thinking TM is doing so to give people access to the Stick without beeing forced to buy it together with the base. I think they do so, just to avoid ppl buying a grip from different manufactor only because TM doesen´t offer a separate WH/F-16 grip without the base. Also they want to sell bases to ppl not willing to buy a complete Stick/HOTAS. So i realy do understand TM´s greed, it´s just that i don´t think they primarily aiming for dumb ppl buyng grip, base and throttle separate from each other, spending double the price compared to just buying the WH HOTAS. That would be horrible market analysis. It may be welcome to TM, but i realy think they´re aiming for selling their grips to ppl who otherwise wouldn´t buy a complete TM stick/HOTAS. Since the DCS: F16-C module is in early access, they propably have a lot of requests for the grip only from people that don´t even have any other TM controls and TM sees a chance to make these ppl new customers . Simple marketing i guess...

I am a good example for that. I got my TM stuff for a while and i´m overall happy with it (base is still working perfect), but still want to get a better base for christmas. I will keep the TM grips, because i don´t want a plastic fantastic, no matter how good it´s manufactured - it stays plastic. Realsimulator, VKB, or Virpil were my candidates. Realsimulator only has their force sensitive base, wich i´m a bit sceptic about if i would like that, so no RS base for me. VKB has a different connector, but offers TM adaptors and it would be ok for me to convert my grips for the VKB base. BUT they don´t sell their bases separately from their grips, wich is the reason i will not buy a VKB base. I just don´t want to spend money for their "high quality but still plastic" grip wich i don´t even want to have. I would love to use the nice VKB base, but the fact Virpil is offering separate bases drawed me to their shop. So a separate offered base was the only reason Virpil making me a new customer.

I´m pretty sure a lot of people thinking the same about the WH grip and TM just realised that.

Cheers

That's fine. The problem is the way they're advertising the F-16 grip. Not everybody will know it's exactly the same as the A-10c grip. For TM and in the real planes.

I'm not sure someone innocent who owns a Warthog HOTAS will buy the F-16 grip thinking they're getting something different. It would be better if TM said they're offering the A-10C grip separately.

I like the idea of offering the F-16/A-10C grip separate for those who want to buy it and use it on a Virpil base. I just don't like how TM advertised it.

I'm not sure someone innocent who owns a Warthog HOTAS will buy the F-16 grip thinking they're getting something different. It would be better if TM said they're offering the A-10C grip separately.

Well, that´s a good point and tbh i didn´t take that into account. Absolutely with you there, the way they advertised it is a cheek. Also if you look at the fact, that i´ve seen ppl here on the forum getting the Warthog grip via TM customer support for around 100-120€ + shipping and they now sell the grip officially for 180€. Truly greedy, as you said.

On the other hand, the Warthog grip is closer to an F-16 grip than to an A-10´s and the F-16 module is a better choice to re-hype their old grip/base than the A-10C module. Not defending TM, but at least from a marketing point of view it makes sense.

Cheers

Don´t think so. I think TM just realised, that separate grips and bases sell better than the complete package...

Yes, VirPil showed that this is a good idea.

The funny is:

Warthog stick only:$248

Magnetic base + F-16 stick: $160+230 = $390

Difference, that anniversary label. :D

The price of labels has gone way up. ;)

That's fine. The problem is the way they're advertising the F-16 grip. Not everybody will know it's exactly the same as the A-10c grip. For TM and in the real planes.

 

I'm not sure someone innocent who owns a Warthog HOTAS will buy the F-16 grip thinking they're getting something different. It would be better if TM said they're offering the A-10C grip separately.

 

I like the idea of offering the F-16/A-10C grip separate for those who want to buy it and use it on a Virpil base. I just don't like how TM advertised it.

It IS false advertising to say it’s the F-16 grip. If that is what they’re doing it’s BS. We’ve already gone over the differences and there are some pretty important ones. Of course these are the same people that made the Cougar out of zinc... lol Who am I kidding? I’ve owned 5 or six of the damn things!:D

I had 3 Cougars myself. So, I'm not one to say much about your 5 Cougars. :)

I had 3 Cougars myself. So, I'm not one to say much about your 5 Cougars. :)

have you checked secondhand market? you could be rich by now.

have you checked secondhand market? you could be rich by now.

Yeah, if I still had them. They're long gone and replaced by Warthogs.

same reason why they release the same model car 4 years in a row. maybe something is different. maybe with the newfound popularity marketing is seeing alot of interest in the 16. maybe different material? who knows. at least they have the molds, and i also suspect that dcs in the past few years has bumped up earnings at Thrustmaster. they got me good with the TPR pedals on top of the warthog hotas.

ive heard from multiple people that the cougars they had all broke too. maybe the curvature was a hard mold to keep sturdy? not sure, never used one. seems most of the warthogs are still running pretty strong though, so maybe just there for the person looking to replace the old hog stick. could be multiple things. Ive been really happy with mine, and am going to be regreasing everything soon (1 1/2 year old now, pretty good use).

Guys, honestly, it’s just perfectly reasonable marketing. TM charge the same sort of price for their grips as everyone else. So what if you get the base bundled at a more reasonable price? That’s a good thing isn’t it? Consider that to be a bonus.

Also, if marketing as a Viper grip generates more interest in our niche hobby, then that is also a good thing in my eyes.

It plays to the gullible. That's not right.

It plays to the gullible. That's not right.

In what way? Do you think that there are Warthog stick owners who will buy it not realising it is effectively the same stick? Even if that was the case, they would soon send it back!

No, I don’t see the problem here at all.

I explained it the best I can. Sorry if you don't get it.

I guess whatever TM does is ok with you?

I explained it the best I can. Sorry if you don't get it.

 

I guess whatever TM does is ok with you?

I do ‘get it’, but I have a different view, and, no, ‘whatever TM does’ would not necessarily be ok with me.

Maybe Wags knows

Maybe Wags can tell us if the F-16C Viper Stick is different than the A10C Warthog stick ?

“The Thrustmaster F-16C Viper™ HOTAS Add-On Grip is my stick of choice for the DCS: F-16C Viper module. It feels and operates just like the real F-16C control stick, and it has exceptional quality, price, and durability.”

— Matt “Wags” Wagner

Executive Producer, Eagle Dynamics

http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B0/thrustmaster-hotas-magnetic-base-and-f-16c-viper-hotas-add-grip-very-special-10th-anniversary

It plays to the gullible. That's not right.

welcome to marketing 101. lol.

It's the same stick, just means Thrustmaster can sell the stick separately from the base which was never an option with the Warthog branded stick.

This is the new F16 stick:-

https://shop.thrustmaster.com/en_ie/f-16c-viper-hotas-add-on-grip.html

it is exactly the same as my warthog stick

Not enough except labels

Hi guys,

I don't agree the new TM marketing is for the gullible. Those people don't play DCS. Although I agree that the reviewers (Wags included) somehow tend to "omit" the simple fact that it is the same old Warthog stick, I think you might be missing a point.

I have actually ordered one of them new magnetic bases and the rebranded "Viper" stick. By the time you read it, I will have it plugged in instead of my trusted Defender Cobra M5 (23 buttons + hat for 35 euros, you can't beat that).

Now why did I do it? Of course I'd done research and swiftly realized it is the same stick. Hence, I don't think TM can rip people off on this. However, my reasons are very simple.

F-16 is my childhood dream. I flew DI's F-16 Fighting Falcon (the original CD actually exploded in a more modern 52x CD-ROM mechanic, which the Mythbusters claim impossible), then F-16: Aggressor, never had a hardware for the Falcon 4.0 as a kid, later on played LOMAC and finally now, when I'm over 30, ED came with their F-16 module for DCS which I'd played for about a year before.

Maybe some of you had goosebumps as myself, when after 2 hours of trying on the 5th or 6th attempt, I finally completed the proper starting procedure in this amazing bird and got to the skies. My first high-fidelity module.

I had dreamt about the F-16 FLCS joystick (only saw 2 pictures of that in magazines) and the Cougar, which is now obsolete without upgrades.

To the point - for years now I have hated the fact, that the best TM stick is the Warthog replica. I don't need left and right throttle. And I most certainly don't want the Warthog word written anywhere. Call me stupid, I respect that plane, its gun and durability, but I never liked it and I just couldn't fly an F-16 with a Hog stick, even if the difference was purely cosmetic.

So I guess, I am TM's perfect target group. Every single piece of flying hardware I bought separately after weeks of planning and reassuring I will play that game and enjoy my investment. TrackIR was a total game changer. And I expect no less from the "Viper" stick.

Since the money isn't an issue, I will gladly pay extra for that 10-year logo and a box saying F-16C Viper. Only to fool myself I'm not flying the Hog stick. Yes, I could've had the same functionality for 2/3 of the price. However, I don't ever want to deal with the Hog and I just couldn't look at it every time I play DCS.

I felt compelled to write this here as nobody had mentioned this point before. Functionality is one thing - branding, logos and names are another. I work in digital marketing and know exactly how and why TM got the money out of me. Both sides happy. Good deal. Don't make too much fun of me, please.

Cheers, mates.

Hi Merrek,

Thanks for sharing that.

Considering your affection for the F-16, have you taken a look at the Realsimulator F16SGRH?

It can also be used with the TM Magnetic Base. Or with their FSSB R3L base.