Touch down Speed

What is the optimal speed of contact on dry runway? I know it depends of weight and AoA + descent rate is more important, but are there any recommended values? Recently I blew the front tire at about 140kts touchdown speed with right AoA. The plane was loaded with centerline tank, and two CBU-99's, two Sparrows and Sidewinder. Fuel about 1000. Suprisingly, without any panic on NWS, it rolled down the runway bumpy but nicely, as NATOPS book describes. Taxi prohibited :) It was my first mishap in this module. Right now I have equal number of takeoffs and landings; the tire xplosion is a reason to investigate speeds :)

Thanks for the tip.

On speed AOA, but watch your descent rate. I typically land the Hornet with a Vertical Velocity of 300 to 400 fpm.

That is a bit heavy. You could also jettison and/or dump some fuel, switch aft of the throttle, near your left thigh. On the checklist page on the DDI, it gives your aircraft weight, too.

The above 300 too 400fpm is what I had been using for landing on runways. I was curious what I land on the boat with, but never really noticed because my eyes are always ball and lineup. I stole a few glances and after boltering a few times because I took my eyes off the ball, I finally trapped a few while looking at my fpm at touchdown. Landing on the carrier, I am typically between 500 to 600fpm on proper glideslope and on speed AOA (of course).

So, check your landing weights, landing with fuel and ordinance is pretty heavy, but more importantly watch your descent rate.

I checked NATOPS and was not able to find any documented max landing weights with a quick search. I selected the loadout with 2 sidewinders, 4 mk82s and 2 fuel then took off and landed with a landing weight of ~43000 lbs. I kept my descent rate between 300 and 400fpm and it did fine.

Thanks, but still - fpm but no range of allowed kts value. Or different question - what is the stall speed of such configuration (2 winders, 2 sparrows, 2 cbu-99s, centerline tank, 1500 fuel). Of course I can try myself, but with my lack experience with hornet (only a few hours for now) I prefer to know the stall speed before any experimenting/lessons with spin recovers.

I haven't touch the carrier missions yet. Three reasons:

1. I am not good enough with normal landings (at least 40 hours logged needed to make a first carrier)

2. Meanwhile, within 2-3 months of ground landings I hope carrier will be patched and flight model will be corrected for "sticky deck" and other bugs, turbulences, ILS will be functional and perhaps there will be more than empty deck for landing, visually :)

3. I don't want to spill myself and just destroy the first impression of carrier landing by sloppy, play with carrier missions because it's so cool. The joy of first trap (or bolter) will be much stronger, I think :)

I don't think jettison and fuel dumping is a frequent landing procedure - i believe it is done mostly when in emergency.

Stall "speed" is simply exceeding the critical angle of attack. Many aircraft (especially GA) will give you the stall speeds, but they are the same - at that speed you will exceed the critical angle of attack.

The optimum angle of attack for landing is on speed (The donut and the bracket). Don't think in speeds and focus on AOA.

For landing, lower your gear and flaps under 250. Then trim for on speed aoa (trim so that hands off, the VV - Velocity Vector stays inside, near center of the bracket), once you do use very little stick for pitch, control your descent and speed with throttle. You can descend in the pattern as quickly as you want / need. Once you are on short final, adjust your power to touch down ~500fpm. This seems to be good for the Hornet on land and the boat.

If I'm a little high, I will put my VV a little short of the runway, then as I get closer, I'll cushion with a little power so that my VV moves to the landing point and my vertical speed slows to ~500fpm.

Jettisoning ordinance and dumping fuel will lower your weight and also your landing speed (governed by AOA). You simply land and take off faster with more weight.

Honestly, my throttle never stops moving. Constant little (sometimes big) adjustments.

Velocity Vector not to be confused with Vertical Velocity Indicator

Also, the Velocity Vector is the airplane symbol. The nose points at the -vv- looking symbol. The difference between the Velocity Vector and that -vv- symbol is basically your angle of attack. The actual angle of attack is the measurement between the chord line of the wing and the relative wind (velocity vector / direction and speed of flight).

Stall speed is also affected by weight, so the heavier you are the higher the stall speed.

There’s a reason you won’t find much reference in NATOPS to IAS. It’s all about fly ‘on-speed AoA.’

There are charts in the back of the NATOPS manual referencing the different weights.

A normal IRL carrier landing will be ~700-800fpm descent rate, and I’ve landed at around 1000fpm with no damage to the gear.

Thanks. I know most of these basics. One thing I noticed in NATOPS is that after touch down you should start to apply a subtle aft stick in order to increase air friction with stabilators. The slower the plane roll, the more aft stick you apply. Not sure if it's implemented in current FM. It seems counterintuitive - to put a stick toward yourself just after touchdown, in some jets it would cause abrupt nose up and tail scratch... Intuition says that you should put your stick slightly forward to create spoiler effect. But can't argue with Natops :)

Thanks. I know most of these basics. One thing I noticed in NATOPS is that after touch down you should start to apply a subtle aft stick in order to increase air friction with stabilators. The slower the plane roll, the more aft stick you apply. Not sure if it's implemented in current FM. It seems counterintuitive - to put a stick toward yourself just after touchdown, in some jets it would cause abrupt nose up and tail scratch... Intuition says that you should put your stick slightly forward to create spoiler effect. But can't argue with Natops :)

This is aero braking, most jet fighters are doing it to decrease braking system wear.

When you want a short landing run, nose down ASAP and maximum break.

Break? You mean full stick toward a pilot?

From the NATOPS:

4.1.7 Weight Limitations. The maximum allowable gross weights are:

Location Pounds

Field

Takeoff 51,900

Landing (Flared) 39,000

FCLP/Touch-and-go/Barricade

Before AFC 029 30,700

After AFC 029 33,000

Carrier

Catapult 51,900

Landing

Unrestricted 33,000

Restricted 34,000

Also, be careful to not touchdown with too little descent rate as "the WOW switch may not

actuate immediately. In this case, the throttles cannot be reduced to ground idle and may be

inadvertently left in the flight idle position, thereby reducing the deceleration rate and extending the

length of the landing rollout. "

Also from NATOPS :

Lighter hornets (no stores) with 2000 pounds of fuel will usually land at 125 knots (that's the ON SPEED value).

For each 1000 pounds addition in weight, add 2.5 knots to the landing speed.

Man, don't know if it is my stick, but having real issues controlling the thing with flaps down and the speed just dorps and increases so quickly it is crazy

Man, don't know if it is my stick, but having real issues controlling the thing with flaps down and the speed just dorps and increases so quickly it is crazy

She does get very dirty, be ready to bring the power on.

This is the NATOPS chart you should roughly reference to check the onspeed AOA indicator is working when level on the downwind 180 etc.

I guess it is a lot of getting used to and having a good HOTAS.

neofighter referenced this in one of his videos how quickly she just drops out of the sky with flaps down and that needing some adjustment.

The throttle thing as well, I got some "deadzone" at idle coming up (I saw there was a thread about it already)

I've noticed that she doesn't tend to slow down or loose speed when you are fast already and at idle but once the speed goes below 200 knots.... things go loco real fast.

Gonna keep practicing, see what this next patch this week brings.

EDIT: Yeah there is a lot of talk on the forums, I know it is EA, so I have no issues with it gonna keep practicing. One of the most exciting things for me is the weekly updates we will be having, just gets me hyped reading the patch notes and seeing what changes and how stuff progresses

She does get very dirty, be ready to bring the power on.

 

This is the NATOPS chart you should roughly reference to check the onspeed AOA indicator is working when level on the downwind 180 etc.

 

thanks for the chart, very helpful!

Amazing. The chart is what I was looking for. Missed it in NATOPS, blindly.

I guess it is a lot of getting used to and having a good HOTAS.

 

neofighter referenced this in one of his videos how quickly she just drops out of the sky with flaps down and that needing some adjustment.

 

The throttle thing as well, I got some "deadzone" at idle coming up (I saw there was a thread about it already)

 

I've noticed that she doesn't tend to slow down or loose speed when you are fast already and at idle but once the speed goes below 200 knots.... things go loco real fast.

 

Gonna keep practicing, see what this next patch this week brings.

 

EDIT: Yeah there is a lot of talk on the forums, I know it is EA, so I have no issues with it gonna keep practicing. One of the most exciting things for me is the weekly updates we will be having, just gets me hyped reading the patch notes and seeing what changes and how stuff progresses

I don't think this drag will change all that much...

During development, the gear drag was far too little and resulted in taking far too long to slow to on-speed in the downwind. This was then corrected and approved by our SMEs.

She would be very dirty considering this jet can get down to the landing speeds of the A-10.

I see many struggling and yes she needs a tweak here and there in the FBW system etc.

You should practice A LOT in a less stressful area like they do IRL, not doing case 1 around the carrier. Here's a quick video I did showing how she will sit nicely once trimmed for onspeed AOA. Very little turbulence set here, watch how little pitch is needed if any and there was no re trimming here. You want to practice this throttle control, then have the pressure of case 1 carrier op's.

To have a 3 degree glide slope, use the tacan and punch in the airport. Be at 1500 feet at 5 Miles level and onspeed before decending, or 3000 feet at 10 miles.