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Landing is so difficult


Terzi

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I read on these forums something along the lines .... Focus on a fixed point on the horizon, and every move you make will be more noticeable in your peripheral vision when you try and hover.... I tried this method, and my Gazelle landings are loads better. I use twist grip on an x52.

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If you think the Gazelle if hard to land (on a specific point) i would love to watch you try the Mi-8 xD

 

I started on the Mi-8 so when i got the Gazelle i fount in incredibly easy in comparison

(had heard people saying the Gazelle was difficult so i was worried but when i got it i found it was a Joy to fly and to land in comparison to the Mi-8 that will try and kill you for the slightest mistake you make).

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If you think the Gazelle if hard to land (on a specific point) i would love to watch you try the Mi-8 xD

 

I started on the Mi-8 so when i got the Gazelle i fount in incredibly easy in comparison

(had heard people saying the Gazelle was difficult so i was worried but when i got it i found it was a Joy to fly and to land in comparison to the Mi-8 that will try and kill you for the slightest mistake you make).

 

Strange, I find takeoff, hover and landing easier in the Mi-8 than the Gazelle, maybe because I started in the Huey?

intel i7 6700k overclocked to 4.6, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz, Asus z170 pro gaming motherboard, Asus strix 1080, Max flight stick(modded), MFG Crosswind pedals.

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Depends. If you can roll, Mi8 is a piece of cake to land, it's a plane with altitude choice, best of both worlds. If you have to make a vertical landing, you're in trouble because that thing get into VRS whenever it feels like :)

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

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I've only ever landed on a pad with it. Will try a rolling landing next time I fly. So far have only done the instant action about half a dozen times and picked up slung loads twice. I am flying in vr which probably makes it easier.

intel i7 6700k overclocked to 4.6, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz, Asus z170 pro gaming motherboard, Asus strix 1080, Max flight stick(modded), MFG Crosswind pedals.

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It's not easy getting something off of the ground that wasn't meant to fly.

 

"Wanna know how helicopters fly? They're so ugly the earth repels them!" - source unknown :pilotfly:

 

I actually think helicopters are a thing of beauty. Such a mechanical marvel of engineering. If you've ever delved into the full process of movement it truly is amazing and a wonder that they fly, but I'm so glad they do. I've really flown nothing but the Huey in DCSW. Loving every minute of it.

 

Not that it's been easy. Nearly 30 hours and still working on landing it "on a spot". Pretty close (within a couple of feet or so) but not consistent. However, at one point I hit a wall in my progress and couldn't figure it out. I finally realized that the stick I was using (TM HOTAS X) was, although new, still analog and not very precise. Moved up to the T16oooM which has Hall Effect sensors and the mechanism is a good bit smoother as well. Went from 10 - 15 foot accuracy down to 3-5 feet instantaneously.

 

So hardware does make a difference. And yes, I fly rudder pedals. And a seperate throttle for the collective. That throttle (TWCS) has a dial axis as well that I use for the actual throttle to run up the engine.

 

Anyway, good luck on your progress. It WILL be frustrating at times but the payoff when you finally get into the groove with it will be worth it. The biggest pointer I can give is:

 

Try to be very "fluid" with your movements.

 

I tended to be more "digital" at first making intermittent nudges on the stick to correct any drift or other unwanted movement tendencies. However, becoming more familiar with the visual cues and what effect different inputs have (e.g. more collective=more torque so more anti-torque is needed) you'll anticipate and be less reactive. Then your movements won't be so jerky and it will all smooth out to better precision.

 

Highspeed

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If you think the Gazelle if hard to land (on a specific point) i would love to watch you try the Mi-8 xD

 

Mi-8 is a dream to take off and land. Provided you treat her like a... fat lady. :D Seriously Mi-8 is great but don't forget to release the parking brake. It stops the tendency to tip over in some cases :megalol:

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Okay disclaimer I only have the Huey at the moment and I am not a pilot.

 

However yes pedals are by far much better then keyboard and a twist throttle for me, no way.

 

I have logitech X3d for stick and collective. (Yes I plan t get a real collective!) and Saitek combat pedals this works very well but I want better. ;o)

 

I have set the curves for the axis tune as follows.

 

Rudder -5

 

Pitch and Roll Y saturation = 35 (reduces sensitivity of stick input)

 

Collective Curvature =27

 

Everything else is default values. This reduces the input sensitivity of the controls, if they are too sensitive you will be over correcting your inputs. Inputs should be small and precise.

 

From watching videos of heli pilots (watch some of the heli crop-duster videos) inputs to rudder and stick are for the most part small (a joystick isn't ideal as it feels quit different to and actual cyclic control) Yes I am researching this.

 

There are several things to learn.

 

Hover this is the most important, you must be able to control the aircraft you need to predict the movements and counter them precisely enough to cancel them out and hovering is essential to all other attributes of flight.

 

Transitioning between ETL and hover (ETL Effective transitional lift.)

 

Avoiding VRS (Vortex Ring State) Where you literally get sucked into the earth. With practise you can avoid it and or react to it and get out of the situation.

 

The most useful thing, learn the principles of helicopter flight and this is in the manual that comes with your helicopter. :thumbup:

 

Then practise practise practise.

 

HTH


Edited by FragBum
Fixed up error VRS whoops

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Hello,

 

I simply do not have the talent to land this bird properly. Landing at "somewhere" is somehow manageable but landing at a certain point is almost impossible for me.

 

For god sake just open the "Improving your piloting skills mission and takeoff. Then come back and try to land on the center of the helipad. I can not even hover the aircraft properly on a constant ground! It drifts no matter how precise I try to be... I searched some videos on Youtube for some advices but didn't see anything useful.

 

This video from real life is what I try to do. See 0:15. He lands perfectly...

 

 

Any advices? Am I missing something? Can someone land this bird properly at a certain point? If yes, how?

 

In addition to above and others posts there is technique I only look at nearby objects to get a feel for where I am (situational awareness) when hovering try and pick an object a fair distance 200mtrs say initially (with practise this will reduce) from you and keep that as a reference don't look at the nearby ground it will drive you nuts.

 

When landing I usually don't look at the instruments I look at the horizon pick a reference object and here's the thing once you get a feel for this landing becomes almost automatic. When the horizon "feels" about level with your ears you've pretty much touched down maybe adjust monitor height.

 

Gets a bit tricky on buildings and bridges and oil rigs and steep inclines but hey.

 

And as far as DCS and the Huey seems like DCS will spit you out in nought seconds flat if you stuff up, it's most unforgiving but I don't think I'd want it any other way. :thumbup:

 

Crash proudly and often at least in a sim we can learn from our mistakes and fly again. :pilotfly:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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the top propeller spins backwards,..

 

Sorry here's three posts in a row. Maybe I need, :helpsmilie:

 

Okay the biggest thing for me is control of collective and dropping the aircraft way to fast. I have set the curvature to 18 so there is a wider spread of control verses movement of the collective maybe log law, ish. For me that is the slider on the logitech extreme 3D PRO which means limited movement verses range of control, hopefully that aspect will be better with a physical flight sim collective. :thumbup:

 

Here's how I throw this Gazelle to the ground rather badly I'm afraid.

 

But what an agile bird to fly, ta, even if the main rotor spins backwards. :cry: sarcasm. :smilewink:

 

 

And for more Laughs here, didn't someone refer to the Huey as a truck Maybe a Cadillac. :music_whistling: I just like it's visceral feel. :)

 

 

Yep I get the power to weight stuff but seriously throwing the Huey around. :pilotfly: Serious FUN. ;o)

 

Please Sir can I have a Huey Super Cobra,.. Please :D I'll be gentle. Promise.

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Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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  • 4 months later...

Back to this topic again; now I can land and control the aircraft almost perfectly.

 

I have bought pedals. It helped but that was not the only factor why I was failing. I have removed the springs from the joystick and set the axis curves to 33 and that made the huge difference. Thanks for all!

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I used to land okay, but sometimes with a bump

 

 

However, after reading some articles by a helicopter instructor/pilot, I have made an incredible leap in low-level helicopter control and my landings are usually sweet as a nut.

 

I got the link on here (can't remember where) and I'll try and find it again - I saved the relevant pages to my tablet for night-time reading.

 

It's just really simple stuff, but works just great. Start off by looking at the horizon - or at least, something in the distance, and not looking down at the area you want to land (obviously, once you know you are in the right position and the area is clear). This is the single and simplest thing that made the biggest difference for me.

 

I do fly in VR, mind. I'll post a link when I find it.

 

Edit: found it -

 

http://www.copters.com/pilot/maneuvers.html

 

read and digest! :)


Edited by Brixmis

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It's just really simple stuff, but works just great. Start off by looking at the horizon - or at least, something in the distance, and not looking down at the area you want to land (obviously, once you know you are in the right position and the area is clear). This is the single and simplest thing that made the biggest difference for me.

 

I do fly in VR, mind. I'll post a link when I find it.

 

Edit: found it -

 

http://www.copters.com/pilot/maneuvers.html

 

read and digest! :)

 

Yes that's a great resource. You know after a while that method becomes redundant. :)

 

The horizon is to keep your attitude correct and the point at a distance is a reference for your position after a while the view of the aircraft frame against the rest of the world becomes that reference.

 

I also removed the centre detent from my logitech 3D pro which makes it feel more like the cyclic feels in a Robinson R44. I now run saturation at 90% for the Gazelle (100% for the Huey) and use the 3 finger method with the sweetspot being at the base of the grip* much better control.

 

*currently have a dead cheter 3.5"HDD and a piece of HDPE foam and a hand towel to rest my wrist on yes improvised but until I get my pit built it works. :thumbup:

 

Agree rift is awesome for flying.

 

BTW I now enjoy throwing both the Huey and Gazelle at the ground and mostly missing the ground. :P

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Back to this topic again; now I can land and control the aircraft almost perfectly.

 

I have bought pedals. It helped but that was not the only factor why I was failing. I have removed the springs from the joystick and set the axis curves to 33 and that made the huge difference. Thanks for all!

 

One gotcha I find is the sprung nature of the skids and I guess the light weight of the Gazelle, if you come down a bit too heavy with a small amount of collective left on the the effect of the spring unloading will launch you once more. Gets much more noticeable as you burn more fuel.

 

For me to smooth out the lift from the main rotor (and even make it feel more realistic) I have applied curvature and changed the mode of operation to slider of course.

 

This is how I have my collective setup Huey is similar.

 

I also have applied curvature to the pedals to give them more authority (with less travel) over the aircraft more to how it felt in the R44 (Yes I know they are not the same but it's the only reference point I have.) I would leave the controls tuned down whilst you get the hang of it then slowly turn them back up as you get more confident. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Check out "Vertical' magazine. It is a rotary wing industry periodical. One of the important advice from them, is when landing, sometimes on departure, and ALWAYS in hover, is to think as applying pressure to cyclic and collective, and ATR pedals, not full-on raging deflection.

For our purpose , sitting behind desk, it is important to arrange the controllers so arms and hands remain comfortable natural position. It does not do ,of having wrists in pain, while holding hover (W/O autoHover).

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Check out "Vertical' magazine. It is a rotary wing industry periodical. One of the important advice from them, is when landing, sometimes on departure, and ALWAYS in hover, is to think as applying pressure to cyclic and collective, and ATR pedals, not full-on raging deflection.

For our purpose , sitting behind desk, it is important to arrange the controllers so arms and hands remain comfortable natural position. It does not do ,of having wrists in pain, while holding hover (W/O autoHover).

 

 

Maybe,..

 

The amount of effect on the aircraft from the controls verses movement of controls is important for me, at least as an approximation to RL. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Yup, before I got the Komodo cyclic/collective (I guess Rich is out of business?) it was much much harder. Doing the Warthog spring mod and adding extensions made it much easier to control choppers. Then I added MFG rudders which made it *that* much easier to control the rudder. You can almost "think about moving" and it'll move the rudders because it's very precise.

 

*THEN* I got Rift. And it was the missing piece. You simply cannot get the sense of speed and height with 2D monitors. The very first time I put on the Rift, I was able to taxi a few feet off the ground and followed a couple of UH-60's in formation. Something that was incredibly difficult because I wasn't feeling the speed.

 

And landing and hovering is that much easier because you just know where you are in space. Something that was impossible with 3 monitors and trackIR.

 

So I would agree that anyone who's serious about wanting to fly choppers *must* have

1) Spring modded (google for it) Warthog or equivalent

2) Extensions

3) Rudders

 

And congrats on being able to fly and land! I fly primarily A10C and Huey modules but this thread motivate me to tackle the Gazelle.


Edited by hansangb

hsb

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Frag, can you also post your settings for cyclic? I would be VERY interested in those!!

 

What I currently have

 

Logitech 3D pro modded with no centre detent

 

Cyclic X and Y saturation = 90 (100 for huey) To my mind no other curve make sense the cyclic is fairly light and it kinda just melts into position when you assert force on it. Seemingly no dead spots in its action.

 

 

Using the slider on the logitech as collective as per previous post.

 

Pedals Saitek combat pro (about to do the center detent mod on them too) wit curvature -12

 

Currently working on a V pit

 

-Robert

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Yup, before I got the Komodo cyclic/collective (I guess Rich is out of business?) it was much much harder. Doing the Warthog spring mod and adding extensions made it much easier to control choppers. Then I added MFG rudders which made it *that* much easier to control the rudder. You can almost "think about moving" and it'll move the rudders because it's very precise.

 

*THEN* I got Rift. And it was the missing piece. You simply cannot get the sense of speed and height with 2D monitors. The very first time I put on the Rift, I was able to taxi a few feet off the ground and followed a couple of UH-60's in formation. Something that was incredibly difficult because I wasn't feeling the speed.

 

And landing and hovering is that much easier because you just know where you are in space. Something that was impossible with 3 monitors and trackIR.

 

So I would agree that anyone who's serious about wanting to fly choppers *must* have

1) Spring modded (google for it) Warthog or equivalent

2) Extensions

3) Rudders

 

And congrats on being able to fly and land! I fly primarily A10C and Huey modules but this thread motivate me to tackle the Gazelle.

 

Yes I got my rift earlier this year and it's everything you say about sim flying. The other thing that made it all click for me was doing a hours introductory trail flight (aka stick time) in a Robinson R44 Cadet the instructor also flew civilian Gazelle in a previous job ;)

 

I'm going back for another fly this time I'm just going to hover mostly. :thumbup:


Edited by FragBum
typo

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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That's nice! I'm very interested in getting some real flt training for choppers, but I don't know I'll ever get the opportunity. I do envy you! :)

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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That's nice! I'm very interested in getting some real flt training for choppers, but I don't know I'll ever get the opportunity. I do envy you! :)

 

See if there is a flight school nearby i get the R44 for around $800/hr problem is it's 1000Klm north of where I live but we going on holidays up that way in August and the minister of love and war actually suggested it.

 

One thing I was going to mention is that I notice that there is an absence of rotor wash from the UH 60s and Mi 24's even the jets, I know I've gotten right in beneath or behind depending and nadda, nothing. zip or is that just me and I need :helpsmilie: . :megalol:

 

Komodo are certainly on my list of kit a bit pricey but looks the part and many good reviews on their products.

 

I'm also working on a tear down and mod howto for the logitech 3D pro to remove the detent it's fairly straight forward. As soon as I get my prehistoric photoshop to work and I can resist taking the Gazelle or Huey for a fly. :thumbup:

 

More Here

 

@OP I still sometimes let out little fire balls at times landing the Gazelle. :music_whistling:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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<not sure why that quoted another post , my bad.>

 

I say have a plan B. I got busted free styling to Korn again, tonight :music_whistling:

 

Alaways have a plan B:megalol:


Edited by FragBum
<edit>

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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