DCS: Mi-24P - What we know + Discussion

Sorry if asked before, but will "our" Hind be capable of doing sling load transport?

3 hours ago, sirrah said:

Sorry if asked before, but will "our" Hind be capable of doing sling load transport?

I would imagine so, (given that the Ka-50 can do it to), but unsure whether or not in can IRL (it doesn't look like it at least).

If not then hopefully at some point we'll get a functional cargo cabin.

In real life as far as I know most Mi-24 regiments had a system where a single squadron within it trained for sling operations on top of the curriculum, the helicopter is capable of doing them but much like troop transport it wasn't anything close to their main tasking.

So long as the helicopter has the capability there for real and at the time, then it should be in. 

On 1/24/2021 at 1:21 PM, sirrah said:

Sorry if asked before, but will "our" Hind be capable of doing sling load transport?

I'm pretty sure I saw this in some forum post or video somewhere, but the Hind, although capable of sling loading, is just not used that way. It is underpowered and often not even able to hover in many situations. I think they said they would not be implementing it due to those reasons.

Let's leave the sling loading to her fat cousin, MI8.

On 1/31/2021 at 5:49 PM, Fury_007 said:

It is underpowered and often not even able to hover in many situations.

That's a bit generalizing. Looking at the charts of a TV3-117V powered Mi-24 (2x2200 HP), it can hover out of ground effect at max takeoff weight (11500kg) and an outside air temperature of 35°C. (sea level)

The Mi-24P that we will see in game is coming with TV3-117VMA engines, which are rated at 2400 HP each. So it performs even better. (I just don't have the performance charts for it)

https://www.helisimmer.com/news/exclusive-screenshots-eagle-dynamics-mi-24p-dcs

51 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

https://www.helisimmer.com/news/exclusive-screenshots-eagle-dynamics-mi-24p-dcs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, these pics really look amazing! I´m really curious how the Hind wil ´work´ in DCS. It´s made to strafe (soft) targets with rockets/ guns and take out tanks with the guided missiles. But considering that the BMP's/IFV's are the most dangerous AAA in DCS (okay maybe after the Tunguska), i think the Hind will only be a slow big target for these ground units.

2 hours ago, Nickkerkwijk said:

Wow, these pics really look amazing! I´m really curious how the Hind wil ´work´ in DCS. It´s made to strafe (soft) targets with rockets/ guns and take out tanks with the guided missiles. But considering that the BMP's/IFV's are the most dangerous AAA in DCS (okay maybe after the Tunguska), i think the Hind will only be a slow big target for these ground units.

We have discusses that issue to death, unfortunately we still don't have any response from ED.

...because KNOWING is half the battle!

In all seriousness though, those ARE some sweet screenshots!

I have no doubt the Hind will be one of my favorites!

I don't understand why everything is suddenly a problem with the Mi-24 survivability.

We've had the Ka-50, which is also armed with a mix of S-8 rockets, guided missiles and a 30mm cannon, since 2008. It's one of the most popular modules in game, and easily one of the most effective platforms.

• The 2A42 can be slewed to an extent, but it also becomes useful at ranges where you're well within the engagement envelope of just about everything short of an AKM.
• It has more missiles, but that just changes the arithmetic from killing twelve tanks to killing four to eight.
• The Mi-24 can take twice as many rockets while still carrying missiles
• The most common DCS engagement profile of the Ka-50 (hovering near cover) is infinitely more dangerous than the fast attacks with a break at maximum range used by the Mi-24 as it presents a very easy target for anti-tank guided missiles launched by armoured units like the Malyutka, Konkurs, Refleks or Kobra, and even the main gun on modern tanks.
• The Mi-24 has a RWR, which will alert the pilot of both presence and direct threat from both land and air-based radars, which the Ka-50 is blind to.
• In case it is hit, the Mi-24 has better armour around critical components and can stay in combat for longer.
• On the Mi-24P both crewmembers are well-protected and can fly the helicopter and employ all weapons, so it can continue its mission even if one of them is incapacitated, whereas the Ka-50 becomes a paperweight the second the pilot is hit.
• The crew separation allows the Mi-24 pilots to separate flying and target acquisition, which allows for more aggressive low altitude profiles and faster target acquisition (this was demonstrated in field tests between the Mi-24, Mi-28 and Ka-50).

I could go on, and the Ka-50 does have some advantages for what is worth, but my point is: the Mi-24 can kill a lot of stuff, and it will. The game doesn't need to be redone for that to happen. Just fly it right and have fun.

EDIT: Mods Delete plz.

5 hours ago, Lucas_From_Hell said:

I don't understand why everything is suddenly a problem with the Mi-24 survivability.

to add to your post, the huey and mi8 have been around here for a long time, and can thrive. it's a faster, more armed and armoured mi8. sounds good to me.

5 hours ago, Sceptre said:

 

to add to your post, the huey and mi8 have been around here for a long time, and can thrive. it's a faster, more armed and armoured mi8. sounds good to me.

Actually, no it's not a faster, more armed and armored mi8. It is faster, more armored and more armed attack helicopter, while the Mi8 is a utility/transport helicopter. There is a very, very large disparity between these two helicopters in the missions that they can do and take on. Especially with regards to utility/transport. If you are expecting to sling-load with the mi24 and carry troops with any kind of efficiency, prepare to be disappointed. While it was designed in theory to be both, in practice it turned out to be really bad whenever it was called on to do both. 

Ka-50 is more survivable Platform in my Mind then the Mi-24 in some ways, they also learned from the past....there is no Tail Rotor with Gearbox and Drive Shaft for example, what still achilles Vers on modern Helicopters. The Turbine Engines are seperated from each other with some more Space and Armor in between to get not knocked out by single hit witch is in the MI-24 a good Possiblity. 

But all in all the MI-24 is combat proven Design, and hover and Destroy as many Targets is a DCS thing when you look after Syria the Ka-52 did the same Hit & Run Tactics witch is more easy with the Ka-50 with this Helm Mounted side and a big FOV compare to narrow field of View Periscope from the MI-24. 

On 2/1/2021 at 10:16 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Depending on the level of skill the mission maker has set the unit at, it will make it more challenging or not for the pilot.

 

So ground units can miss or more accurately shoot "worse" depending on their AI skill? 

On 2/1/2021 at 10:16 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Depending on the level of skill the mission maker has set the unit at, it will make it more challenging or not for the pilot.

 

The skill of the pilot flying makes all the difference also, but a capable Mi-24 pilot should do well, knowing when not to take on a target is also half the battle.

May I suggest you make an experiment in the ME? Place a platoon of M2 Bradley (4 units) with the lowest skill level and let it be attacked by a AI Mi-24V limited to rockets (so no ATGM). Note how often the Hind will survive a single attack (spoiler: rarely). You can repeat the test with various APC and IFV, such as M113, LAV-25, BMP-2, Marder, Warrior, BTR-80 etc.

I hope some people at ED do these sort of things, because it will determine weather the DCS Hind will be a usable singleplayer product or not. I may be able to overcome the ground AI, but my AI wingmen and any other allied flight will not. I am worried.

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

So ground units can miss or more accurately shoot "worse" depending on their AI skill? 

Yes, but it is the lowest setting that is in use predominately and that we are used to with regards to AI accuracy.

Also for some weird reason the skill settings are called:

Average

Good

High

Excellent

In what world is average the lowest end of the spectrum? It would have made sense to scale these among the complete spectrum and give them a descriptive name that the user can actually connect with reasonable expectations. Such as:

Untrained: Struggles with even operating the weapon system. For example insurgents that have captured a tank, or someone that closed his eyes when shooting a rifle.

Trained: Got basic training to use the weapon system but has no further combat experience.

Veteran: Either with combat experience or extensive combat-like training. For example Iraqi republican guard or most NATO troops.

Elite: Special forces like abilities.

Just now, BIGNEWY said:

 

Planning and tactics are required, if you dont have stand off weapons then a full frontal Leroy Jenkins probably is not going to be the best option  

As mentioned setting the skill level of the units lower will make a difference to their accuracy and detection, so it is in the hands of the mission creator. 

You realize though that I suggested you make the test with the lowest skill level available and see for yourself?

31 minutes ago, MBot said:

 

May I suggest you make an experiment in the ME? Place a platoon of M2 Bradley (4 units) with the lowest skill level and let it be attacked by a AI Mi-24V limited to rockets (so no ATGM). Note how often the Hind will survive a single attack (spoiler: rarely). You can repeat the test with various APC and IFV, such as M113, LAV-25, BMP-2, Marder, Warrior, BTR-80 etc.

 

I hope some people at ED do these sort of things, because it will determine weather the DCS Hind will be a usable singleplayer product or not. I may be able to overcome the ground AI, but my AI wingmen and any other allied flight will not. I am worried.

Isn't this common to every helicopter in DCS if you take away its missiles? Including the AH-64D.

I totally agree with you on the skill levels of the AI ground units and what they should represent.

4 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Isn't this common to every helicopter in DCS if you take away its missiles? Including the AH-64D.

 

Yes sure, because the helicopter AI in DCS is awful. It only works as long as it can shoot missiles from stand-off at high altitude (for a helo). So not fitting the combat doctrines of both the Hind or the Apache against a mechanized enemy at all.

24 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

Planning and tactics are required, if you dont have stand off weapons then a full frontal Leroy Jenkins probably is not going to be the best option  

As mentioned setting the skill level of the units lower will make a difference to their accuracy and detection, so it is in the hands of the mission creator. 

Maybe we need a more "dumb" skill level where the APCs are less sharp shooters and pay less attention to the air and more to the ground? Would be that possible before or with the Mi-24P release?