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***PLEASE*** Optimize MSAA


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The Hornet is a work of art, as well is the Persian Gulf map. My system specs are below in my signature. Pre-2.5 // 2.5 Open-beta, I was getting a solid and consistent 60FPS with my 4K monitor. Now I’m getting 48-58. I troubleshooted every setting, and narrowed it down to MSAA. Everything else maxed out, including rain drop effects, mirrors, etc, no effect on performance (Video card handles rendering like a champ).

 

When I disable MSAA, my FPS jumps to a solid 60. Disable MSAA and turn on SSAA, FPS crawls at 30 FPS. Disable both I’m back at 60 with severe shimmering/jaggies.

 

I could understand if these settings rid the sim of any shimmering, however at their maxed out settings, shimmering/jaggies are still pronounced and performance severely degraded.

 

If I remember correctly, 1.5 used MSAA of 8?


Edited by davidzill

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The Hornet is a work of art, as well is the Persian Gulf map. My system specs are below in my signature. Pre-2.5 // 2.5 Open-beta, I was getting a solid and consistent 60FPS with my 4K monitor. Now I’m getting 48-58. I trouble shouted every setting, and narrowed it down to MSAA. Everything else maxed out, including rain drop effects, mirrors, etc, no effect on performance (Video card handles rendering like a champ).

When I disable MSAA, my FPS jumps to a solid 60. Disable MSAA and turn on SGSS, FPS crawls at 30 FPS. Disable both I’m back at 60 with severe shimmering/jaggies.

I could understand if these settings rid the sim of any shimmering, however at their maxed out settings, shimmering/jaggies are still pronounced and performance severely degraded.

If I remember correctly, 1.5 used MSAA of 8?

 

I don't see jaggies even on a 1440p with MSAA turned completely off.

Do you even need MSAA on a 4k monitor?

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I don't see jaggies even on a 1440p with MSAA turned completely off.

Do you even need MSAA on a 4k monitor?

 

Yes indeed. Turning off MSAA is effectively turning off antialiasing.

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I don't see jaggies even on a 1440p with MSAA turned completely off.

Do you even need MSAA on a 4k monitor?

 

How do you render antialiasing?

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How do you render antialiasing?

I think he means that with such a high resolution AA should not be necessary. I, however, entirely agree with you. Without AA, the jaggies on this sim are appalling, even at a very high res.

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=208578

 

 

As to the title of your post, +1 from me.

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I don't see jaggies even on a 1440p with MSAA turned completely off.

Do you even need MSAA on a 4k monitor?

Really if you turned off AA you can't see any jagges?

Except in the case of the monitor of 24 inches with at least 5k resolution.

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I don't see jaggies even on a 1440p with MSAA turned completely off.

Do you even need MSAA on a 4k monitor?

 

If you can't see jaggies with AA turned off on DCS then you should get your eyes checked. And yes, you still need AA at 4k. I'm hoping ED is working on some fixes for AA because DCS probably has the worst AA of any flight sim currently. The shimmering is particularly BAD. I have same specs as the OP and run at 1440p. Performance hit with 4x msaa is too much.

PC Hardware: Asus Maximus XIII Hero / i9-10900K / 64 GB DDR4 3600 MHz / NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE / Samsung 960 NVMe / LG OLED48CX / Reverb G2

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Nothing constructive to say here except looking in with sorrow. Luckily I haven't purchased the F-18 (yet) and won't do until there's real improvement to get the games quality and performance back to at least previous release standards, if not exceeding them for enjoyment on a reasonable gaming PC. As yet, despite all the constructive feedback about the beta on here, I've yet to see a single issue addressed. I await with anticipation.

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Nothing constructive to say here except looking in with sorrow. Luckily I haven't purchased the F-18 (yet) and won't do until there's real improvement to get the games quality and performance back to at least previous release standards, if not exceeding them for enjoyment on a reasonable gaming PC. As yet, despite all the constructive feedback about the beta on here, I've yet to see a single issue addressed. I await with anticipation.

 

I'd actually ordered the F-18 back in January, but asked for (and was given) a refund last week. This was the only way I could think of to make my displeasure known RE ****ing deferred shading. I know, I know, big difference that's going to make. Of course, I couldn't resist buying it again on Tuesday.

 

I also got a refund on Persian Gulf. I don't think I'll buy that until I have a system that can run it properly in VR (or it goes on sale).

 

So. I will be staying on 2.5.0 for my other modules, but will tinker with the hornet on the beta branch. So far, I'm managing to get by for very simple training type stuff at minimal settings. The aircraft itself is wonderful. Hopefully by the time the finished product drops 1080 Ti's will be cheaper.

 

I thought I'd settled on 1.5.2, with its excellent performance. But in the end, there were too many little niggles - that will never be fixed.

 

Your seem to have a similar spec to me. I feel your pain, but it's probably worth giving in to the temptation.


Edited by Hippo

System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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Turn all AA off in game' date=' and then force FXAA on in Nvidia control pannel.[/quote']

 

Haven’t tried that, will it improve image quality/performance?

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^ Compared to no AA at all, yes it will somewhat. It is a primitive, "poor man's" post-processing method, so unfortunately it doesn't remove shimmering, it also makes image a bit blurry, including fonts and symbols on instruments. On the other hand, it reduces jaggies quite a bit, and "costs" only a few fps.

 

Same applies to similar SMAA method. I do use both or one of them to maintain good performance with at least some AA, even in this imperfect form (1440p 32" monitor here, and no AA certainly creates too many jaggies to deal with, it's unacceptable solution).

 

That being said, going back to original post, it's literally impossible to "optimize" MSAA when using Deferred Shading at the same time, because both these techniques just don't like each other and by definition cause massive performance hit when used together. Only totally different new AA method can help (but recently introduced SSAA is not a good solution either).


Edited by Art-J

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Haven’t tried that, will it improve image quality/performance?

 

 

it will split the difference.. ex..

 

better image quality than in game no MXAA

 

better performance than in game MXAA x2

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posted this in another thread.. maybe better here though.

 

 

 

i wonder why DCS has so much aliaising issues.... im content at 4k with msaax2... but man it should be way better...with no AA on it just looks like a stretched out low res jaggy festival... wondering if we are trying to optimize performance or trying really hard to polish a turd... i dont want that to be taken offensively... just wondering why at 4k.. without AA.. it looks like i am stretching a 1080p signal across my screen... the pixelation of the jaggies are seemingly massive.. the edges of everything look like they take their rendering queues from "ExciteBike".. why is this so prevalent in DCS and not in other games?

 

game looks killer... as it should... but seems to require beating the piss out of everyones gpu with AA..

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Your seem to have a similar spec to me. I feel your pain, but it's probably worth giving in to the temptation.

 

 

Yes our specs are similar, and I don't know about you but I'm running 2.5 and other aerial combat games both on monitor and VR absolutely suberbly.

I can already enjoy smooth jaggy free action in the F15 and AV-8B etc before DS screwed things up and can enjoy the F-18 if needed elsewhere. It's a shame, but I definitely won't be investing further in any new modules here until DCS is back performing, and exceeding expectation as it should be.

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I don't know why people want to go back to HDR so bad. The lighting with DS is amazing. We just need ED to fix the AA. I was able to reduce the shimmering some by forcing SGSSAA in NVInspector but performance impact was too much. Most modifications via NVI or NVCP have no effect. Custom profiles don't work and you have to apply settings globally.

 

While the shimmering is annoying I don't think the answer is to ask for refunds or refuse to purchase modules. I'm sure ED will fix this and they need our support.

PC Hardware: Asus Maximus XIII Hero / i9-10900K / 64 GB DDR4 3600 MHz / NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE / Samsung 960 NVMe / LG OLED48CX / Reverb G2

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I don't know why people want to go back to HDR so bad (...) We just need ED to fix the AA.

 

You've answered your own question. *EDIT* I'm being somewhat unfair, as I'm running in VR. Without AA the jaggies ruin it for me. I was getting over twice the frame rate before the imposition of deferred rendering.

 

I'm sure ED will fix this.

 

Oh good, that's ok then.

 

Everything ED does is wonderful. Criticism is not permitted. We must just hand over our money and smile, smile, smile. Because everything will be ok in the end.


Edited by Hippo

System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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If I'm gaming @ 1440, would I get acceptable FPS with MSAA on, if I bought a 1080ti?

 

Nate

 

 

Not quite what you're looking for, but might give you an idea:

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=210356

System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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You've answered your own question. *EDIT* I'm being somewhat unfair, as I'm running in VR. Without AA the jaggies ruin it for me. I was getting over twice the frame rate before the imposition of deferred rendering.

 

I don't really care about VR atm. I tried it with Samsung Odyssey and decided to wait for gen 2. For me, the lighting in DS is way better than what they had with HDR. The best performing solution I found for AA was SMAA with using reshade.

 

 

 

Everything ED does is wonderful. Criticism is not permitted. We must just hand over our money and smile, smile, smile. Because everything will be ok in the end.

 

Maybe you didn't read my earlier post in this thread where I said DCS has some of the worst AA in any flight sim currently? I hope they fix it soon. I just don't agree with not supporting them is the way to get what you want. I think if ED was just in business to rip people off they'd choose something more lucrative than building combat flight sims.

PC Hardware: Asus Maximus XIII Hero / i9-10900K / 64 GB DDR4 3600 MHz / NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE / Samsung 960 NVMe / LG OLED48CX / Reverb G2

Flight Controls: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog / VKB T-RUDDER MKIV / Cougar MFD Set

DCS Modules: F-14 Tomcat / F/A-18C Hornet / AV-8B NA / F-5E Tiger II / A-10C Warthog / F-16C Viper / UH-1 Huey / LOFC3 / Spitfire LF Mk. IX / P-51D Mustang / WWII Assets Pack / Normandy 1944 / NTTR Map / Persian Gulf Map / Syria Map

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