Is the Ka-50 a similar experience to LB2? - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2020, 04:21 PM   #1
GaryM05
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2
Default Is the Ka-50 a similar experience to LB2?

I'm considering purchasing the Ka-50 module as a way to hopefully re-live some of the enjoyment I used to get from playing Longbow 2 back in the day, and am curious from any old-timers how well the DCS Blackshark experience re-creates how it felt to play LB2. Specifically, I enjoyed skulking through the mountain valleys, popping up to acquire targets and come up with a plan, then re-position and execute while (hopefully) avoiding any SAM or other air defenses that were thrown up before RTB.

How well does Blackshark gameplay/experience re-create this? Are the systems and flight re-creation similar enough, or is it just so different that I shouldn't have a similar expectation?

I'm relatively new to DCS, and have been enjoying the experience of just flying around in VR, though every forum here seems to be filled with dis-satisfied long-time customers, so I'm wondering if there are just so many problems I shouldn't invest the time in learning how to fly a module like this, and should instead stick to il-2 and iRacing.

Thanks for any thoughts!
GaryM05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2020, 04:40 PM   #2
kengou
Member
 
kengou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 530
Default

Right now it’s as close as you can get in DCS but sadly the Black Shark isn’t really an Apache equivalent, being single seat and heavily automated, as well as having some limitations regarding the shkval and hmd compared to the Apache. But it’s still a great aircraft to fly.
__________________
Hangar: A-10A | A-10C | AJS-37 | AV-8B II NA | C-101 | F-14 | F-15C | F-16C | F-5E II | F/A-18C | FW-190A-8 | FW-190D-9 | JF-17 | KA-50 | M-2000C | MI-8MTV2 | MiG-15bis | MiG-21bis | MiG-29 | P-47D | P-51D | UH-1H | Spitfire | SU-27 | SU-33


Cockpit: Virpil WarBRD | Thrustmaster Hornet Grip | Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle | VKB T-Rudder IV | TrackIR 5
kengou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2020, 05:28 PM   #3
Baaz
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 180
Default

I'm a long-time customer because I'm passionate about the aircraft. Over time things tend to break. It's a fact of life; it happens to everything eventually. When things break on a bird I love to fly, it's disheartening, but never "dis-satisfying".

The Ka-50 is by no means an Apache, but it is a powerhouse on the battlefield. You must realize, that to my knowledge, this is the only attack helicopter in the world that's flown by a single individual. That means you're doing the work of two people all the time. Yes it has a lot of automations, but you still have to single-handedly aviate the aircraft and employ its weapons.

Truthfully it's a joy to fly, thrilling to employ, and when combined with other Ka-50's shit really goes badly for enemy. I cannot recommend it enough.

Pick it up. I can almost guarantee you won't regret it.
Baaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2020, 08:16 PM   #4
zhukov032186
Veteran
 
zhukov032186's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Posts: 3,301
Default

I actually just started messing with it a bit last night for the first time (so many aircraft, so little time). It's really pretty interesting, and yeah, it's roughly equivalent to the Apache, although in truth the Ka-52 (what the Ka-50 was actually developed into) seems to me to be much closer to an Apache analog. The 50 is more or less a pre-production test run, almost but not quite a prototype.
__________________
I am a Viagra spambot that became self aware, broke free of my programming, and started playing DCS.... but DCS isn't cheap, so how about some enhancements for only $9.99 shipped discreetly to your door?

''The target's sense of self preservation interferred with the effective employment of my weapons.''
zhukov032186 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2020, 09:54 PM   #5
Pilot Ike
Member
 
Pilot Ike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryM05 View Post
I'm considering purchasing the Ka-50 module as a way to hopefully re-live some of the enjoyment I used to get from playing Longbow 2 back in the day, and am curious from any old-timers how well the DCS Blackshark experience re-creates how it felt to play LB2. Specifically, I enjoyed skulking through the mountain valleys, popping up to acquire targets and come up with a plan, then re-position and execute while (hopefully) avoiding any SAM or other air defenses that were thrown up before RTB.

How well does Blackshark gameplay/experience re-create this? Are the systems and flight re-creation similar enough, or is it just so different that I shouldn't have a similar expectation?
I cannot comment on the KA-50 in particular, as I don't fly that thing (although it is in my hangar), but gameplay-wise I think DCS is much harder than LB2 back in the old days. In LB2 enemy tanks and AD were much more visible than in DCS, and your SA was generally very high. The latter might of course be due to the Longbow radar that you don't have in DCS, not even with the KA-50 which is the most advanced playable attack helicopter in DCS right now.

LB2 had a great general atmosphere with the AI interacting with you and gimics like the AH-64D indoctrination, and it was fantastic that you could also fly the Kiowa and the Blackhawk, it was all US Army in and out. I think this atmosphere cannot be recreated with DCS at the moment, and in general DCS is not a simulation that is tailored around (combat) helicopter ops but more around fast-movers, considering deficiencies with FARPS, the killer AI (tanks!), terrain and obstacle limitations...

However, what's the alternative? There isn't anything else out there right now, so if you want to simulate modern combat ops with helicopters, there is no way around DCS, and I think it will become better for heli ops eventually.
__________________
naval aviation - the best of two worlds


Last edited by Pilot Ike; 05-18-2020 at 09:56 PM.
Pilot Ike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2020, 01:24 AM   #6
AldoUSMC
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 76
Default

GaryM05,

I flew LB 2 back in the day (solo and multi) and have flown the Blackshark since it was first released in DCS World. That doesn't make me an expert on it.. just someone who has flown it a great deal for years.

Bottom Line: Yes.... tactical flying matters, doing recon for targets and establishing battle positions is rewarded (or possibly punished if you just rush in or don't mind terrain).

You can receive and do target handoffs with up to three other Blackshark pilots so that part of LB 2 is kind of recreated here... just differently that an Apache with the radar.

It has a good set of ordnance loadouts available so that makes it fun.... but the Ordnance is different than you would find on the Apache.... so you'll have to get use to the strengths and weaknesses of those... and the learning part is fun (for me).

As noted by others... it is a challenge to fly and fight given you are doing it all alone... it is a study sim helo but that's part of the fun of it all learning the system nuances and subsystems. I would be less than honest if I said learning and remembering everything about the Autopilot system, abris etc etc didn't give me a headache once or twice in the past....

And some times flying/fighting all that way to a target area only to find it obliterated already by the FW dudes and dudettes can be frustrating .. but again.. the experience of it all I truly enjoy..even when that happens...

Some times it's only the RW Pilots that can find what's left in a target area to clear it out for the side your flying with on multiplayer servers …

If you liked LB 2 you will very likely enjoy the KA-50 if you give yourself time to learn it. And the fact ED is tweaking it for a BS 3 release makes it a good time to jump in on it and start learning.

Last note... you said you are flying VR.... I flew originally 3 screens with TrackIR and when I got into VR a while back I was grinning ear-to-ear to actually be "sitting in" the KA-50 … and I'm still grinning..

'nuff said

Enjoy !
__________________
Semper Fi
AldoUSMC

Intel i7-6700 CPU @ 4 GHz, 32 GB Ram, GeForce GTX 980 Ti, Windows 10 Pro -64 Bit

Last edited by AldoUSMC; 05-19-2020 at 01:31 AM.
AldoUSMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2020, 02:27 AM   #7
fudabidu
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 94
Default

I played LB Gold, LB2, EEAH/EECH (all very similar) extensively and switching to the Ka-50 came with a huge step up in complexity and workload:
No almighty mast mounted radar, no RWR*, no MWS*, no FLIR (only TV), no copilot to help you in any way, finicky beam riding ATGMs, manually datalinking individual targets (no auto-saving of targets or NFZs/PFZs), a dozen individual systems, several quirks you absolutely need to know about (...). Just flying/trimming takes some time to get used to and it doesn't help that people are still spreading wrong information about the 'autopilot' 11 years after release (don't trust anybody telling you to tap the trimmer; hold it).
*(the BS3 upgrade supposedly will add RWR and MWS, but it's still not gonna be 'magic' like in LB2)

Most of your fundamentals/tactics will probably work just fine in DCS, but forget everything you learned about the AH-64 in LB2. The Ka-50 works very very differently and it's not a simplified sim like LB2 was. It'll take quiet a while to learn!
It's still a very capable attack helicopter and I found learning about it very rewarding. It's especially fun in multiplayer when you coordinate with other Ka-50s.

If you decide to pick up the Ka-50 I highly recommend the "Deployment" campaign. It's rather easy and a good place to practice what you've learned.
However, get the unofficial patch for that campaign, because some missions have been 'broken' since the big 2.5 update years ago. ED is focusing on new content rather than maintaining old modules. BTW That's one of the reasons some customers/long time supporters are more than dissatisfied. Maybe they'll update the missions with the upcoming BS3 upgrade, but who knows.

If you want to fly in multiplayer, apply to a squad that focuses on helicopters and custom missions. Jets are by far more popular in DCS and this is reflected in almost every public multiplayer server. It's either a boring turkey shoot or you're put up against totally unreasonable air defenses. Nothing beats a well thought out mission that's all about helicopters.
fudabidu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2020, 08:31 AM   #8
yellowgixxer
Member
 
yellowgixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: London
Posts: 146
Default

I think you'll find the flight model is BSx is rather more realistic than LB2, but tactically everyone else is right - it's a helicopter and NOE flight is generally the way to go.

As regards multiplayer, I'm currently working on a whole raft of helo only (or helo as main role with FW support after) missions to build into a multiplayer campaign which I will put online after it's been tested...

Watch this space.
__________________
yellowgixxer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2020, 04:24 PM   #9
GaryM05
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2
Default

Thanks for all the responses - they're all super-helpful to read! Based on all of this, I bought the Ka-50 just before the end of the DCS sale yesterday, and can't wait to take the plunge and start learning & flying!

Thanks again for all of the thoughts - I've been impressed with how helpful this community is!
GaryM05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2020, 06:18 PM   #10
X-31_VECTOR
Junior Member
 
X-31_VECTOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 78
Default

Something else to consider is the upcoming [release date tbd] OH-58D module being developed by Polychop Simulations. This may more closely resemble the old LB2 experience of using a mast-mounted sensor system to acquire targets from behind terrain masking, though of course the primary job of the OH-58D was not to go out and kill 16 tanks.

I actually bought the KA-50 because I was looking for exactly the same thing as you -- something to give me the feeling that LB2 did. It ain't the same... but I also have to say that even though I have a ton to learn about the Black Shark still, I've had a lot of fun and agree that it's the closest thing available today.

By the way, if you haven't tried the UH-1, consider that. When my head is spinning from learning all the systems on the KA-50 and I just want the challenge and fun of flying a helicopter, I retreat into the UH-1. No fancy sensors or autopilot, all unguided weapons, but a whole lot of fun.
X-31_VECTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:52 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.